On the previous topic. I am a fan of breaking the cycle of cartouches and trials. Personally the red and black ones do not do enough while the white one fall into the same catagory for most cubes. (I have been able to put together consistent turn five-six wins with using the WG exert deck in draft provided my opponent does not have removal.) As for the trials, none of them have been standout for me due to lower power level. The best of them are the blue, red, and green. White is once again dependent on what you are looking for.
Card/Deck Low Power Card Spotlight
- Thread starter Grillo_Parlante
- Start date
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I remember some people on the board saying compulsion was too good.
I think giving everything "Cycling:
" seems pretty sweet, but Mental Discipline has such bad optics, and isn't that much of a downgrade; if "cycling: " is a problem in your environment, the extra mana and lack of on-board cycling for the engine it comes from isn't going to change that, although it will make it more likely to wheel to the blue player who can abuse it and be a quietly strong pick. I imagine it would be rather skill-testing to find that kind of free window to get it on the ground, but if the environment caps out at slower build-arounds like Pyromancer's Assault, then it'll probably be fine.I kind of think that Compulsion, at the worst of it, will become a top-shelf blue card that appeals to many decks but has a real cost attached, sort of like Honden of Seeing Winds in EMA draft, which sounds good to me; personally, I like those sort of solid, value-generating long-game tools that players will look to pivot around and maximize value from, because they're what I look for in drafts. That said, if you're concerned, you could always start out on Mental Discipline and upgrade it if nobody bites for a few drafts. I'd guess that both are fairly cheap to pick up.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Well, giving every card in your deck cycling is super strong in the late game alright. Whether Compulsion is too strong probably depends on how reliably you can get to the late game in a given cube's metagame. The ability to sacrifice Compulsion for a card isn't that important, except in scenarios where you are trying to dig yourself out of a hole obviously, but the one (colored!) mana extra on Mental Discipline's cost is an impactful downgrade. Even though it's a late game card, ideally you'll want to sequence it out in an early turn when you're not doing much else, so that you can play a card you cycle into in the late game. Then again, this matters less in cubes where Compulsion is too strong, so there's that.
I think RavebornMuse's advise is solid, except I would probably start the other way around. If you run Compulsion first, it turns out too strong, and you then switch to Mental Discipline, people will have learned the effect is desirable and are less likely to ignore the weaker looking card.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
It may be that compulsion is good in an environment where one of your cards is 30 times as good as the others
Or, really care about discarding and/or drawing. Sphinx's Tutelage anyone? Combo decks also appreciate giving all their cards cycling.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
This is the card I really want right?
Return temples/cycling lands back to your hand, power molten vortex/seismic assault/loam/landfall/drake haven etc., promote some sort of R/U lands combination?
More of a late game smoothing engine, less likely to be viewed as another nutso blue card.
This is a more clear synergy line indicator I think, where compulsion is a higher pick and more of a just good card, that synergy is optional with?
Does the place in the pick order impact the analysis in a meaningful way, hadn't occurred to me, but it might. This is more of a mid-pack pick, for a deck that we're assuming already has a developmental pathway.
Compulsion is more "hey, start drafting a blue deck that cares about discard" first or second or third pick, on the basis that its an early smoother, like a much lower power, but still excellent, ponder/preordain. But I have less control over if the drafter uses it as the signal I want it to be?
Return temples/cycling lands back to your hand, power molten vortex/seismic assault/loam/landfall/drake haven etc., promote some sort of R/U lands combination?
More of a late game smoothing engine, less likely to be viewed as another nutso blue card.
This is a more clear synergy line indicator I think, where compulsion is a higher pick and more of a just good card, that synergy is optional with?
Does the place in the pick order impact the analysis in a meaningful way, hadn't occurred to me, but it might. This is more of a mid-pack pick, for a deck that we're assuming already has a developmental pathway.
Compulsion is more "hey, start drafting a blue deck that cares about discard" first or second or third pick, on the basis that its an early smoother, like a much lower power, but still excellent, ponder/preordain. But I have less control over if the drafter uses it as the signal I want it to be?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I think they're probably comparable in power level? The good thing about Trade Routes is that it doesn't punish players for playing their cards. You can happily slam every land card you draw, because if you draw Trade Routes, you can return them to your hand anyway. So either you use those ten lands you have in play to cast a draw spell and a drawn spell in the same turn, or cast Trade Routes to return four lands to cycle away. It both works!
It's also pretty cool with effects that want a full hand of cards like Wild Mongrel, Noose Constrictor, Psychatog, Windfall, Scroll Rack, and Keffers.
Laz
Developer
I'm not sure if this card quite belongs in the Low Powered thread, but my instinct says he does. His built-in recursion is rather painful to a mana base that is already going to struggle to cast him, but his scaling power/toughness and built-in reach engine seems like a sweet fit in a
deck looking to play the long game. Thoughts?
I feel like the cost of that (BBGG) is problematic in much the same way Ghost Council of Orzhova. The ability is sweet but getting all that mana is harder in a limited environment (though to be fair GB is probably better positioned to do it with birds and things like Elves of Deep Shadow).
I find Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord only casts fling repeatedly. That was the reason I put him into my cube. And, that tends to be a mixed bag considering, due to Jarad's casting cost, he tends to do best in a ramp deck. Where I find it often time inconvenient to go tossing my best, and few, threats. What should also be kept in mind is that GB Sacrifice does have a very targeted engine with Jarad, Meren of Clan Nel Toth, Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest, Savra, Queen of the Golgari (his sister if that matters), or others.
Another selection of cards that Jarad could be used with are Satyr Wayfinder, Grisly Salvage, and other self-mill card that makes Jarad larger. This could also be a reanimator deck, but I find that less viable as there are just stronger things to bring back (Griselbrand). Depending on what you are finding, casting Jarad is not that difficult.
Definitely low power in my experience.
Another selection of cards that Jarad could be used with are Satyr Wayfinder, Grisly Salvage, and other self-mill card that makes Jarad larger. This could also be a reanimator deck, but I find that less viable as there are just stronger things to bring back (Griselbrand). Depending on what you are finding, casting Jarad is not that difficult.
Definitely low power in my experience.
Waiting until 4 mana is pretty shitty. Like, the real reason you want something like Krosan Tusker is that it not only fixes your mana, but does it at a spot that is naturally conducive to the color's strengths i.e. elves. That extra turn is so much worse, and you're getting way less out of the card even by putting the land onto the battlefield.
Ultimately, Krosan Tusker is the much better version of this card, and it turns out paying more for the 'better' version isn't really that much better, AND it turns out that you really only want one creature/spell that does that type of effect. 3 is the sweet spot/ceiling for that amount of ramp. I'd rather just run Cultivate/etc.
Ultimately, Krosan Tusker is the much better version of this card, and it turns out paying more for the 'better' version isn't really that much better, AND it turns out that you really only want one creature/spell that does that type of effect. 3 is the sweet spot/ceiling for that amount of ramp. I'd rather just run Cultivate/etc.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I really like it as a ca piece for green, given the setup I have. I would probably not run it in your format for the reasons salmo gave.
This was exactly my experience with it.
Thanks
Man Amonkhet is great
I replaced Roar of the Wurm for it as I like the trample, lower front side cmc, and the zombie typing can be relevant. So far I have no complaints with the switch as it boost the decks properly without being viably chump blocked. Otherwise they both serve as incentives for green ramp decks, self-mill decks (looting also works), and green control decks. In draft both of them can be wheeled or used to signal a deck is open without too much dedication early on.
I would like to note that the hydra is initially a creature card instead of a sorcery. This gives it an edge if you want to give reaminator a decent if not exciting target. Roar is better if you are running a Gx token archetype as it makes two tokens. However, I am not sure how much of a difference this going to make as I have not hard casted either of them.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
+ 
So I've seen a lot of lists recently with this little lizard friend. Is this card the bees knees? What're people's experience with it?
May I ask where else you find your cube lists? I never wonder into other cube-related sites.