Sets [ORI] Magic Origins Spoilers

[Chris Taylor]

*Shrug* it's a 5 drop that's slightly resiliant to removal.
It's good, but it's blade splicer good not recurring nightmare good

There's plenty of ways to interact with it and it doesn't win you the game when you cast it. You might as well be worried about polukranos.

 

[Goldenpineapple]

Upgrade for you Chronomaton players?

 

[shamizy]

Abbot of Keral Keep hype, what a great 2 drop for red. I wish it was from Kher Keep though.

 

[ahadabans]

*Shrug* it's a 5 drop that's slightly resiliant to removal.
It's good, but it's blade splicer good not recurring nightmare good

There's plenty of ways to interact with it and it doesn't win you the game when you cast it. You might as well be worried about polukranos.

Alright. Sounds like I might be alone on this one. Not to keep this debate going, but I have to say there's a huge difference between a 3/3 golem token (that loses first strike when it's parent dies) and a 5/5 flying token (that's always going to be a 5/5 flying token no matter what). And Blade Splicer is a very powerful card too. This thing is definitely better.

I believe this card is a lot better than you guys think it is. I'm going to wait to see how it performs and then decide if it's too much for my list.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Blink is the one theme that I don't touch, because ETB creatures are like the last thing that need build around support, so I don't think the priest is that amazing. Doomwake, Ghoulcaller Gissa, Gray Merchant, Sidsi and Drana are all nice cards. I mean, its good enough to hold the slot for sure, but I don't think its obsoleting the competition.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Abbot of Keral Keep hype, what a great 2 drop for red. I wish it was from Kher Keep though.

A 2/1 kobold with prowess would be so weird though

 

[ahadabans]

Again, I'll wait to see what the cube community reports back. But I think the priest is better than every one of those cards you listed FSR even with zero blink support. It's way over the curve even with zero synergies and it's straight up busted if you can interact with it at all (and that requires almost no effort).

Imagine this in Pod? I don't think you all appreciate how good two bodies is when one is a 5/5 flyer with zero drawback. The Blade Splicer example above I think illustrates this very well. In my cube, that card is extremely powerful. It's a 2 for 1 against pretty much everything except sweepers or a wall of fat blockers. And with any kind of support at all, it is capable of doing massive damage (especially with white pump effects). The priest is a ridiculously more powerful version of that card with an insignificant draw back and a much higher upside. I posted this on MTGS, but it's worth posting here. Falkenrath Aristocrat into this card is GG against pretty much everything in my cube.

OK. I'll shut up now about it.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

*Shrug* it's a 5 drop that's slightly resiliant to removal.
It's good, but it's blade splicer good not recurring nightmare good

There's plenty of ways to interact with it and it doesn't win you the game when you cast it. You might as well be worried about polukranos.

Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction too, that it was a sort of spruced up splicer, albeit without any of the fun synergies.

But yeah, that U/R artifact theme is really starting to look appealing.

 

[MCMcEmcee]

re: Genesis Hydra
Being an X-spell certainly encourages a play pattern of just sitting until you have MAXIMUM MANA but it isn't really necessary. Given that you have kept the overall curve of your cube/deck low, X=3-4 often yields some good hits.
I like that it's a green card that plays well with green themes (ramp, permanents mattering, +1/+1 counters, etc.) while not playing particularly well with themes from other colors that normally would be all over a powerful "ETB" effect (blink, reanimation, clones). It punishes bounce somewhat (like Thragtusk) without making it worthless (like Thragtusk). Scales with mana, plays well with knowing the top card(s) of your library, plays well with your own bounce effects or "symmetrical" bounce, etc.
Also an X-spell that doesn't win the game on the spot with infinite mana which is kinda nice.

re: demon dude
Pros:
Can Pod a 6/6 demon into a 2/2 that makes a 5/5 demon. Then you can Pod the 2/2 into... another 6/6 demon. Spooky.
Human (and Cleric!!) tribal, BB for devotion, 2/2 for 'lark/Alesha, good blink/reanimation/etc. target, etc.
Neither half dies to Doom Blade.
Good against a lot of green cards and red cards.

Cons:
You lose 10 life before it can get through a Lingering Souls. Spooky.
Bad against counterspells (5 mana), bounce (good body is the token, downside is on the main body), Pacifism effects, Stifle/Trickbind/etc., dragons, spirit tokens, faerie tokens, tappers, etc.

 

[Lucre]

Ugh I had such a huge post about that demon then my fucking craptop overheated.

Demon is the sort of card that both benefits from gimmicky themes that usually require you nerf removal and sweepers while practically necessitating abundant and efficient interaction.

Honestly I don't think removal is the only issue here, these sorta bigger pushed spells with mildly abusable synergies can seem scary, you really have to make sure you aren't letting your opponent do whatever the fuck they want, and if your plan isn't to keep their revilark or blink tricks under wraps you should be trying to go bigger or under them. Honestly I think most 5s in cubes should be good enough to take games from people with irrelevant draws. But of you're looking for a format closer to limited maybe pushed demons and dragons aren't the place for you lol.

 

[yan]

looks fine its not on kalonian hydra/baneslayer/thundermaw level is pretty good though

i like genesis hydra casting it for x=2 is the play most of the time

 

[ahadabans]

Honestly I don't think removal is the only issue here, these sorta bigger pushed spells with mildly abusable synergies can seem scary, you really have to make sure you aren't letting your opponent do whatever the fuck they want, and if your plan isn't to keep their revilark or blink tricks under wraps you should be trying to go bigger or under them. Honestly I think most 5s in cubes should be good enough to take games from people with irrelevant draws. But of you're looking for a format closer to limited maybe pushed demons and dragons aren't the place for you lol.

I read this post (and posts like it) and I think that the version of Magic I play is just very different from what most other cube environments are like. Maybe it's the fact that I don't run walkers or don't push aggro because no one really likes drafting it. I don't know. Not saying it's good or bad necessarily, just that it is getting more difficult for me to relate to the brand of Magic that exists today. But I digress...

Anyway, the idea that it is even possible to keep "tricks" in cube "under wraps" is completely absurd to me. There are a million and one ways to get extra value out of cards like this in decks built around synergistic effects. It is impossible for anyone to build an opposing deck that completely shuts synergy down in that way. It just can't be done. Unless you build a cube with minimal synergy and it's all just goodstuff I guess. Even then, it's exceedingly difficult not be be able to abuse effects when half of the cards in your card pool are rares and mythics.

As far as going over this effect (something more busted), that can be done but it's a lot harder than it sounds outside power lists. This card with the reveillark/karmic guide combo with some restoration angle/cloudshift thrown in for good measure makes this virtually un-counterable and brimming with stupid amounts of value. You can't have enough removal or counter spells in your deck from stopping me to land some of this stuff (a lot of it actually) and sticking threats that win the game.

Long story short, ETB abuse decks in particular are some of the most degenerate things still left in my cube and this guy is exactly what those decks orgasm over and will be able to break with relative ease. Funny thing is that my arguments above are talking me into trying him as he fits so well, but again I'll be very surprised if he isn't the best card in several decks and cause auto-scooping once an engine comes online with him in it. I don't see it ending well is the point.

In my cube, this card has a higher ceiling than thundermaw for sure (not even debatable), and possibly kalonian hydra (though with haste that thing is very deadly). Maybe not Baneslayer (but that card is only oppressive to tempo decks really). But it's moot anyway, because I would never run any of these three cards in my cube for power reasons.

 

[yan]

yea but those blink cards could be another threat instead anyways ?

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I think he was just saying that when playing against it, you need to disrupt their strategy, and if you can't disrupt whatever they are doing to exploit the card, you need to be playing bigger more explosive spells, or racing under them.

You ideally want a combination of disruption and pressure, to get ahead on tempo, and eventually be so far ahead they can't win. If your environment is kind of durdly though, a player can just put that guy out there, and abuse him with all sorts of expensive cards, since there is no pressure to capitalize on whatever disruption is being tossed at him. Which is kind of a common issue in multi-player formats tbh.

 

[ahadabans]

yea but those blink cards could be another threat instead anyways ?

Absolutely. But the blink effects are undercosted for one, and many are attached to bodies so it's a virtual 2 for 1 effect while also being under-costed. Blink is essentially value combo.

Cloudshift can blank a removal spell and get you another 5/5 dragon (in the case of the priest). That's absurd (backbreaking) value for a 1 mana card. The other wonderful (?) thing about blink effects is that you can sometimes choose which thing to abuse based on what hurts you opponent most. In a way, it's like clone effects. Your opponent only has one blue source? Blinking Acidic Slime may just win you the game outright. Opponent only has spot removal and no sweepers? Blinking Cloudgoat ranger (especially with an anthem out) is probably GG. That 1 mana cloudshift is not only a bargain for the effect, it can be whatever effect you need a of times.

And so many cards interact with blink effects. It's viable in so many different deck builds at this point. It's not a fringe archetype anymore which I think is part of why I think the value town token guys like priest are problematic at least in my environment.

As you can probably tell, this particular mechanic is heavily abused in my cube, one reason I've started culling some token producers. I love blink as an archetype, but it is extremely powerful with all the newer cards we are getting for cube that have so much built in value attached to them.

 

[Lucre]

I've been saying gotcha counters like blink effects that have very narrow combo potential and hose cards decks have to rely on to stay in the game are sorta boring, swingy and lame if you are going out of your way to include them. I don't know what going out of your way entails in some of these more outlier cubes though. Blink effects are still pretty cute if damage stacks though. There is a lot of feel bad associated with someone negating you or beating you with a ghostly whatever, so I want your opponent to have to reveal that POS card from their hand at the end of every game they lose to having a narrow counterspell stuck in their hand.

Also more pearls of lucas wisdom:
If you wana run shite removal, try to ease up on removal hosers.
If you are worried about powerful threats being too strong make it easier to stop them, or harder to protect them.

This isn't for anyone in particular, I just see a lot of people really getting excited over beating oblivion rings with spell pierce or gods willing and that always seemed like kicking a dying animal to me.

 

[Goldenpineapple]

SO RENOWNED

 

[ahadabans]

Good grief. Renown 6? How hilarious that card would have been with trample.

Off topic… the real solution to my temper tantrum over how pushed Priest of the Blood Rite? Make aggro an actual thing in my cube. Problem is every attempt I have made to get guys to draft a real aggro deck have failed. So I'm stuck with a very midrangy meta. But I can't suck all the life out of things like the blink archetype because it's popular and guys find it fun. I just need to make sure it's not overly dominant. This is all very challenging… keeping people happy and making the meta reasonably balanced within the constraints of what people tend to draft.

Back on topic… early spoilers had this set looking lackluster. But it's really turned around in the last couple days. I'm pretty excited now. And despite all my belly aching, I'll probably get a copy of priest anyway and throw it into a blink deck just to see how unbeatable it's going to be. It's a card I'm attracted to from a design perspective I just wish it wasn't so far over the curve.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Now do they not draft aggro because they don't like it or because they're convinced it's not good?
Does it "Cheapen me out of my durdely decks?"
Is mono red boring?

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

His meta does a lot of multiplayer, and aggro is a really hard archetype to balance in multiplayer. Usually those metas gravitate towards grindy value decks, because you need to outlast 2-4 other people.

 

[Aoret]

If it's mostly multiplayer, then yeah, I think it's probably not fixable.

If the situation were something like guys just not drafting aggro because it "isn't good" or "is boring" then I'd say just push the hell out of it or use one of the handful of interesting Riptide takes on the archetype (or both!) and then force it for the next 4 or 5 drafts.

(full disclosure: I've done this exercise with blue control decks in my meta and people still won't touch it.)

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

If it's mostly multiplayer, then yeah, I think it's probably not fixable.

Nooo! Thats part of what these articles were supposed to address!

I mean, there is a general issue with casual play groups overvaluing midrange decks, but the same psychology applies to multiplayer groups: just usually much more so. At the end of the day, aggressive low curve decks become more attractive when they have some resiliency to when things bog down, and the ability to make big burst damage plays.

Thats part of the appeal of temp. protection effects like gods willing: it effectively gives an aggro deck both a conditional counterspell, and evasion piece*; as well as the appeal of value sacrifice effects for low curve decks: which can now recoup tempo lost off of removal.

*Some stipulations apply as outlined by Lucus. Plus because archetype lines are narrowed (as described in the first article) there is less concern of a midrange deck hoovering up feat of resistance and using it to just as a terrible counterspell to screw control.

 

[safra]

the rares have been pretty interesting so far, i'm excited for this as a draft experience. i bet we get some really cool cards when they dump the uncommons

 

[yan]

finally some great cards

 

[RavebornMuse]

Nissa's Revelation

Scry 5, then reveal the top card of your library. If it is a creature card, draw cards equal to its power and gain life equal to its toughness.

--

Maybe it's cute, but I like it. Big Green card draw+filter? Sounds like fun to me! Green rarely is short on mana over here, and this is just the sort of dig spell Green wants to find closers in a midrange stompy deck. I think I'm sold.