Sets [ORI] Magic Origins Spoilers
- Thread starter anotak
- Start date
Additional mill pieces make tutelage worse, not better imo. All you want to do with tutelage is a) not die and b) draw cards. It's like drafting a mill deck with Jace Memory Adept, what's the point of milling them for 5 extra cards early when your win condition is going to kill them in 3 turns without help?
I don't think Sphinx's Tutelage is nearly as miserable as Memory Adept or True-Name Nemesis, but I'm also not sold on it adding much value to your environment either. "Weaker than True-Name Nemesis" isn't the criteria I immediately go to for all my cube updates.
I don't think Sphinx's Tutelage is nearly as miserable as Memory Adept or True-Name Nemesis, but I'm also not sold on it adding much value to your environment either. "Weaker than True-Name Nemesis" isn't the criteria I immediately go to for all my cube updates.
I love this place.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
The Hedron Crabs were completely wrong to in that deck I listed.
I mean, the whole deck is basically wrong, but it still won some games because casting Sphinx's Tutelage on three puts the opponent on a 3-4 turn clock that can't be defended by the usual means.
The fact that the card took an 0-all deck and stole it a few wins even though it wasn't the "right" deck for the card through sheer brute power tells me what I need to know about the tuning on it.
I mean, the whole deck is basically wrong, but it still won some games because casting Sphinx's Tutelage on three puts the opponent on a 3-4 turn clock that can't be defended by the usual means.
The fact that the card took an 0-all deck and stole it a few wins even though it wasn't the "right" deck for the card through sheer brute power tells me what I need to know about the tuning on it.
oh man Storm Crow was printed 9 times
Edit: though I'm definitely more in the self-mill camp, I want to point out my favorite mill card from the last few years:
Came back from GP San Diego and my LGS Gameday two hours ago, went 3-1 and got 3rd place (and that sweet promo Languish!) with this GB Pact deck. Most fun I've had playing Standard in a long while:
The Caves of Koilos + white lands were for a potential white splash out the side when I was tweaking the list after FNM but I never got around to adding anything in. The sideboard was more tailored towards an aggressive showing of Red decks and the like (which there weren't many of). Deck was very fun, playing with Demonic Pact is such a rush. Its just so much value over the 3 turns that it is active. The best times were when I'd have double Pact out and just spew value. I'll draw four off my two pacts. You can discard 4 now. I'll deal 4 to your dude, gain 4, and I'll make you discard two with this other pact. There were so many times that I had a Pact in play without a clear out but I didn't die to any of my Pacts all day long. The only issue I've had was with some super aggro decks and the new UR Thopter deck against which I just didn't draw anything relevant.
GB Pact
| Creatures (15) 3 Den Protector 2 Invasive Species 4 Courser of Kruphix 1 Reclamation Sage 2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer 3 Woodland Bellower Planeswalkers (1) 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon Spells (18) 4 Thoughtseize 3 Languish 2 Bile Blight 2 Ultimate Price 4 Demonic Pact 3 Hero's Downfall | Lands (26) 4 Swamp 4 Forest 4 Jungle Hollow 4 Llanowar Wastes 4 Temple of Malady 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 1 Temple of Silence 1 Temple of Plenty 1 Sandsteppe Citadel 1 Caves of Koilos 1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon | Sideboard (15) 2 Duress 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon 1 Nissa, Worldwaker 1 Back to Nature 2 Drown in Sorrow 1 Read the Bones 2 Unravel the Aether 2 Crux of Fate 2 Pharika's Cure 1 Hero's Downfall |
The Caves of Koilos + white lands were for a potential white splash out the side when I was tweaking the list after FNM but I never got around to adding anything in. The sideboard was more tailored towards an aggressive showing of Red decks and the like (which there weren't many of). Deck was very fun, playing with Demonic Pact is such a rush. Its just so much value over the 3 turns that it is active. The best times were when I'd have double Pact out and just spew value. I'll draw four off my two pacts. You can discard 4 now. I'll deal 4 to your dude, gain 4, and I'll make you discard two with this other pact. There were so many times that I had a Pact in play without a clear out but I didn't die to any of my Pacts all day long. The only issue I've had was with some super aggro decks and the new UR Thopter deck against which I just didn't draw anything relevant.
CML
Contributor
oh man Storm Crow was printed 9 times
Edit: though I'm definitely more in the self-mill camp, I want to point out my favorite mill card from the last few years:
nothing really compares to whipping back Sidisi on shrooms
(either Sidisi)
I won my gameday with a Cuneo's UR Tutelage (Using cards available to me).
It is true what FlowerSunRain said. You just drop tutelage down turn 3 and you win in 2-3 turns. Deck was fun to witness, as you don't really play it. It just does its own thing. Rundown of my matches:
| Lands (27) 1 Shivan Reef 4 Radiant Fountain 4 Temple of Epiphany 4 Swiftwater Cliffs 7 Mountain 7 Island Creatures (4) 4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Spells (29) 4 Magmatic Insight 4 Tormenting Voice 4 Anger of the Gods 4 Sphinx's Tutelage 2 Dictate of Kruphix 4 Treasure Cruise 2 Send to Sleep 1 Roast 2 Whelming Wave 1 Dig Through Time 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon | Sideboard (15) 1 Tormod's Crypt 2 Talent of the Telepath 4 Negate 1 Disperse 3 Fiery Impulse 2 Send to Sleep 2 Sarkhan Dragonspeaker |
It is true what FlowerSunRain said. You just drop tutelage down turn 3 and you win in 2-3 turns. Deck was fun to witness, as you don't really play it. It just does its own thing. Rundown of my matches:
Match 1 vs Jund Whip 2-0
It is great when you verse a deck whose gameplan helps your own. Game 1 consisted of an Anger on turn 3 to remove the mana dorks. Turn 4 tutelage, then draw go for a couple of turns while he Tasigur's and Crater's Claws me for a decent amount of damage then go turbo with a treasure cruise into tutelage number two and an insight for the game.
Game two he didn't have green so I just get value of Jace while he communes and gets out whip. Hit tutelage turn 5 then start milling. Things get scary when he starts whipping back Atarka's with me having no card draw. I just keep using the ability on tutelage to loot while drawing large amount of lands. Hit a send to sleep to stop the second atarka from taking me out. Then hit a second dictate on my turn with him having 2 cards in his library to finish him off.
Match 2 vs Mono Red (Midrange?) 2-1
Lose the die roll and mulligan to 6. Has an aggressive start with dragon fodders and a Swiftspear. Anger on turn 3 to stem the bleeding isn't enough when a Thundermaw followed by Sarkhan Dragonspeaker take me down swiftly, with the singleton roast smugly sitting in my hand.
Game 2 sided in the Send to Sleep and the Fiery Impulses and take out the Ugin, Dictates, Roast and a Wave. Start off with a turn 2 Jace which gets jetted. So I drop another, radiant fountain number two, showing that an anger will not be coming anytime soon, then he drops a Flamewake which hits me. Drop tutelage, loot, flip then +1 the Phoenix. He drops a Thunderbreak and passes. I drop a red land, +1 phoenix, tormenting voice and pass. He swings at Jace and Lighting Strikes him to finish him off. I then anger away the phoenix then we both draw lots of lands while the Thunderbreak beats me down. Hit a lucky bunch of tutelage triggers to mill him 8 cards in 1 draw. Get a send to sleep and stop the thunderbreak from swinging for two turns, going to 3 all I need to do is hope he doesn't rip a burn spell and my next draw step will kill, he doesn't and I win.
Game 3 went turn 3 and 4 tutelage when all he had was some burn and couldn't hit the 5th land for his Sarkhan.
That match showed me the power of Jace. It literally gained me 11 life, which saved me that game. Also, the amount of times the 'share a colour' rider on tutelage came up was insane (as you would expect it would be with mono-anything). I got around 10 extra triggers per game, which is a solid 2-3 extra turns saved right there.
Match 3 vs BG Elves 2-1
Game 1 Keep a hand with anger of the gods, use it turn three when he has 5 elves out and it was pretty much game over.
Game 2 keep a hand of 5 land 2 Tutelage to see how it goes. Turn 3 tutlage gets met with a reclamation sage, turn 4 tutelage gets met with a Chord for Sage. Left with a send to sleep, land and broken dreams in my hand I go to game 3.
Game 3 turn 3 anger gets there again. Feel a little bad for the guy. A young kid with aspirations for a playmat sitting at 2-0 with his homebrew elves, crushed by a single card (he ended up at 2-2, so I felt even worse).
Match 4 vs Mono Red Aggro 2-1
Game 1: Turn 1 Swiftspear, turn 2 2x Swiftspear, turn 3 Zurgo + Strike with no anger in sight and a low life total I go to game 2.
Game 2: Can't remember much of this one. I remember it being fairly close like game 2 of my other mono red match. A clutch Radiant fountain the turn before I can kill him to get me out of burn range sealed the deal.
Game 3: Turn 1 Impuse Zurgo, 2 and 3 Dash Lightning Striker, I drop tutelage turn 3, turn 4 Abbot into Eidolon, Anger them away, then becomes draw go while the lightning striker beats me down. Finally get an impulse to kill it while all he draws is lands then finally mill him out with double tutelage. His comment was, when playing against me my deck doesn't win, his just loses. Which is pretty much true. Lands are RDW worst enemy.
Final thoughts. The Ugin was a stupid idea, and was always discarded to tormenting voice (with the Ugin picture for hilarity) as I never got to 8 lands. I generally killed by turn 7. Anger of the Gods was my main source of interaction and pretty much won me all of my games (although one could say that versing mono coloured decks won me all my games). This also made whelming wave and roast terrible, due to my matchups. Lots of little dudes that these interact poorly against. Jace is great. Everyone loves a 2-mana planeswalker. Just oozes value and flashing back treasure cruises isn't bad either. Magmatic Insight is a cool card. There are some rough decisions using it, like hoping to hit another land to hit your land drop, having a radiant fountain as the only land in hand, etc. There were a couple of times where I tormenting voiced away a land to hit two spells, one of which was a magmatic insight then couldn't continue the chain. Overall I had a fun day, and the deck was a blast to play and always gathered an audience if I was going to long.
Tutelage really is True-Name Nemesis (That dies to Reclamation Sage).
It is great when you verse a deck whose gameplan helps your own. Game 1 consisted of an Anger on turn 3 to remove the mana dorks. Turn 4 tutelage, then draw go for a couple of turns while he Tasigur's and Crater's Claws me for a decent amount of damage then go turbo with a treasure cruise into tutelage number two and an insight for the game.
Game two he didn't have green so I just get value of Jace while he communes and gets out whip. Hit tutelage turn 5 then start milling. Things get scary when he starts whipping back Atarka's with me having no card draw. I just keep using the ability on tutelage to loot while drawing large amount of lands. Hit a send to sleep to stop the second atarka from taking me out. Then hit a second dictate on my turn with him having 2 cards in his library to finish him off.
Match 2 vs Mono Red (Midrange?) 2-1
Lose the die roll and mulligan to 6. Has an aggressive start with dragon fodders and a Swiftspear. Anger on turn 3 to stem the bleeding isn't enough when a Thundermaw followed by Sarkhan Dragonspeaker take me down swiftly, with the singleton roast smugly sitting in my hand.
Game 2 sided in the Send to Sleep and the Fiery Impulses and take out the Ugin, Dictates, Roast and a Wave. Start off with a turn 2 Jace which gets jetted. So I drop another, radiant fountain number two, showing that an anger will not be coming anytime soon, then he drops a Flamewake which hits me. Drop tutelage, loot, flip then +1 the Phoenix. He drops a Thunderbreak and passes. I drop a red land, +1 phoenix, tormenting voice and pass. He swings at Jace and Lighting Strikes him to finish him off. I then anger away the phoenix then we both draw lots of lands while the Thunderbreak beats me down. Hit a lucky bunch of tutelage triggers to mill him 8 cards in 1 draw. Get a send to sleep and stop the thunderbreak from swinging for two turns, going to 3 all I need to do is hope he doesn't rip a burn spell and my next draw step will kill, he doesn't and I win.
Game 3 went turn 3 and 4 tutelage when all he had was some burn and couldn't hit the 5th land for his Sarkhan.
That match showed me the power of Jace. It literally gained me 11 life, which saved me that game. Also, the amount of times the 'share a colour' rider on tutelage came up was insane (as you would expect it would be with mono-anything). I got around 10 extra triggers per game, which is a solid 2-3 extra turns saved right there.
Match 3 vs BG Elves 2-1
Game 1 Keep a hand with anger of the gods, use it turn three when he has 5 elves out and it was pretty much game over.
Game 2 keep a hand of 5 land 2 Tutelage to see how it goes. Turn 3 tutlage gets met with a reclamation sage, turn 4 tutelage gets met with a Chord for Sage. Left with a send to sleep, land and broken dreams in my hand I go to game 3.
Game 3 turn 3 anger gets there again. Feel a little bad for the guy. A young kid with aspirations for a playmat sitting at 2-0 with his homebrew elves, crushed by a single card (he ended up at 2-2, so I felt even worse).
Match 4 vs Mono Red Aggro 2-1
Game 1: Turn 1 Swiftspear, turn 2 2x Swiftspear, turn 3 Zurgo + Strike with no anger in sight and a low life total I go to game 2.
Game 2: Can't remember much of this one. I remember it being fairly close like game 2 of my other mono red match. A clutch Radiant fountain the turn before I can kill him to get me out of burn range sealed the deal.
Game 3: Turn 1 Impuse Zurgo, 2 and 3 Dash Lightning Striker, I drop tutelage turn 3, turn 4 Abbot into Eidolon, Anger them away, then becomes draw go while the lightning striker beats me down. Finally get an impulse to kill it while all he draws is lands then finally mill him out with double tutelage. His comment was, when playing against me my deck doesn't win, his just loses. Which is pretty much true. Lands are RDW worst enemy.
Final thoughts. The Ugin was a stupid idea, and was always discarded to tormenting voice (with the Ugin picture for hilarity) as I never got to 8 lands. I generally killed by turn 7. Anger of the Gods was my main source of interaction and pretty much won me all of my games (although one could say that versing mono coloured decks won me all my games). This also made whelming wave and roast terrible, due to my matchups. Lots of little dudes that these interact poorly against. Jace is great. Everyone loves a 2-mana planeswalker. Just oozes value and flashing back treasure cruises isn't bad either. Magmatic Insight is a cool card. There are some rough decisions using it, like hoping to hit another land to hit your land drop, having a radiant fountain as the only land in hand, etc. There were a couple of times where I tormenting voiced away a land to hit two spells, one of which was a magmatic insight then couldn't continue the chain. Overall I had a fun day, and the deck was a blast to play and always gathered an audience if I was going to long.
Tutelage really is True-Name Nemesis (That dies to Reclamation Sage).
Laz
Developer
I was a little afraid that someone would figure out how to break Demonic Pact at the Pro Tour, so I snapped up a copy before it kicked off on the Friday. The PT has passed, and no one seems to have broken it, but it still seems like a super sweet card. Are you guys running any specific ways to deal with it, or just hoping your drafters find something incidental? I am looking to swap Stonecloaker out for Flickerwisp, but I think that is the only big change on my end.
I got 2nd at my game day. I just played boring old rally with 4 arashin cleric and 4 cleric of the foward order in sb. No fun story to it. Played 3 mono red decks and lost to heroic in the finals
So I am guessing by 'Boring old Rally' you mean Abzan Rally?
The deck I had been playing was some sort of terrible 5-Colour graveyard deck that was a mash-up between Rally, Chromanti-flayer and Sidisi Whip. Deck is fun as all hell to play attacks from so many (terrible) angles. Would have played it at games day but it is such a known quantity by everyone that I would have been hated out so went with Tutelage instead.
I still don't understand why Abzan Rally doesn't run Siege Rhino. It is such a beating rallying them back (or just playing them in general). Does it really need all its cards to be CMC 3 or less?
No there was a rally deck before origins. With siege rhino and gray merchant. I top 8ed Indiana states with it. Yea the new rally does need 3 or less cmc.
Thats what i meant by old anyway.
Skipped Game Day because I just wanted the Conclave Naturalists promo and have minions to acquire it for me.
Played newest Jace in my Geist of St. Traft EDH deck for FNM and while he was pretty poor with all of my instants, he was very good flashing back Armageddons and Cataclysms against ramp decks :<
I have also accidentally gone infinite with Evolutionary Leap twice in tournaments now. Card is sweet.
Played newest Jace in my Geist of St. Traft EDH deck for FNM and while he was pretty poor with all of my instants, he was very good flashing back Armageddons and Cataclysms against ramp decks :<
I have also accidentally gone infinite with Evolutionary Leap twice in tournaments now. Card is sweet.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
^explain!
Won with this, looking at something similar for GP London:
Won with this, looking at something similar for GP London:
With Marath:
Marath, Will of the Wild and some tokens, some random lands, Gaea's Cradle, Birds of Paradise + Sylvan Caryatid + Bloom Tender, Evolutionary Leap in play. Fed a token to Leap, found Acidic Slime which was then cast and fed to the Leap, hit Karmic Guide. Fed both Slime and Guide to the leap, hit Reveilark. Fed Reveilark to the Leap, returning Guide + Slime, getting back 'lark, did this for a few reps, hit Village Bell-Ringer. So then feed Guide -> Bell-Ringer -> 'lark to Leap over and over, getting them all back and untapping my mana dorks every iteration.
So now I pretty much have infinite red and white mana while blowing up all their lands/artifacts/enchantment, then I find Purphoros and do 2x infinite damage to them.
With some amount of counters on Animar, Soul of Elements and Earthcraft, did some junk that finally hit a gating creature and streamlined into:
Tap and sac any of the gating/bounce creatures (Shrieking Drake, Dream Stalker, Faerie Imposter, Man-o'-War), Artisan of Kozilek them back, Artisan untaps a land before getting bounced, repeat to gain infinite mana of whatever basics are in play while drawing every creature in the deck. Now with infinite mana, no creatures left in the deck, and an infinitely large Animar, cast Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre for free to blow up one of their permanents, then sac Ulamog to Leap to find Ulamog again. Repeat for all of their permanents, attack for an arbitrarily large amount of commander damage.
Marath, Will of the Wild and some tokens, some random lands, Gaea's Cradle, Birds of Paradise + Sylvan Caryatid + Bloom Tender, Evolutionary Leap in play. Fed a token to Leap, found Acidic Slime which was then cast and fed to the Leap, hit Karmic Guide. Fed both Slime and Guide to the leap, hit Reveilark. Fed Reveilark to the Leap, returning Guide + Slime, getting back 'lark, did this for a few reps, hit Village Bell-Ringer. So then feed Guide -> Bell-Ringer -> 'lark to Leap over and over, getting them all back and untapping my mana dorks every iteration.
So now I pretty much have infinite red and white mana while blowing up all their lands/artifacts/enchantment, then I find Purphoros and do 2x infinite damage to them.
With some amount of counters on Animar, Soul of Elements and Earthcraft, did some junk that finally hit a gating creature and streamlined into:
Tap and sac any of the gating/bounce creatures (Shrieking Drake, Dream Stalker, Faerie Imposter, Man-o'-War), Artisan of Kozilek them back, Artisan untaps a land before getting bounced, repeat to gain infinite mana of whatever basics are in play while drawing every creature in the deck. Now with infinite mana, no creatures left in the deck, and an infinitely large Animar, cast Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre for free to blow up one of their permanents, then sac Ulamog to Leap to find Ulamog again. Repeat for all of their permanents, attack for an arbitrarily large amount of commander damage.
Anafenza plus Hangarback Walker seems sweet!
I just played Thopters. The deck is cool, if swingy and draw dependent. I'm running it back for GP London as well.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Ajani/Command/Charm with Walker is great too, though one Ajani should maybe go to the SB
First one: 'lark dies and brings back Guide and VBR. VBR untaps all your creatures including mana dorks, Guide gets back 'lark. Sac VBR and Guide, then 'lark. Repeat.
Second one: tap and sac a bounce creature with earthcraft to pay for evolutionary leap's activation. Cast Artisan of Kozilek for free thanks to Animar's cost reduction ability. Tap Artisan to untap a basic while its trigger returns the bounce creature to play. Bounce Artisan to hand. Repeat for arbitrarily large mana pool and Animar size. With no creatures left in your library, you cast ulamog and blow up a permanent, then sac ulamog who then shuffles in before evolutionary leap's ability resolves, and with no other creatures in the deck you will just keep finding ulamog. Repeat as often as you like.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
0/10 not in french
Lark shenanigans are the best. I'm slowly trying to push a Mardu "2-power or less" theme in my Cube, what with Lark and Alesha (and other cards I guess) caring about that number. Guide is the only pro-color creature in my cube I'm not actively trying to replace. One of my drafters requested it by name a while back during an expansion, and will never draft anything that doesn't include white.
