General Land Storm

[EzPzJapanezy]

A lot of the suggestions in this thread have been great so far.

I adore land synergies, and I think the recursive / graveyard angle that has been suggested by many before me here works wonderfully in Pox.

I also love the 'land-slinging-jamboree' gameplay that a heftily supported fastbond package enables.

Personally, however, I feel like fastbond package leans closer to what I want a storm deck to be doing i.e: slingin'.

I have never been in love with Landfall triggers themselves being the win-condition. Instead, I prefer if the Landfall Triggers contribute to the growth of a secondary resource that enables an explosive, albeit demanding win-con. Sort of like the relationship between accruing Storm-count before casting the actual Storm card.

The aforementioned secondary resource I would use in this case is Life Total. As people have posted, there are quite a few landfall triggers that gain you life (among other things).





I know I said I prefer Fastbond style decks for Storm, but Lifegain through Zuran Orb recursion loops could work with this as well.

Some Interesting Payoffs I like that find an intersection between mana acceleration and lifegain:




I also have wondered how well such a setup could co-exist with a more traditional, Spell focused storm deck focused on lifegain as well...





Anyway, I am unsure if any of this would ever come close to working, but I cannot seem to go a month without thinking about implementing something like this haha.

 

[Aston]

 

[EzPzJapanezy]

Necro'ing the heck out of this like a lad because of this stupid card:



I don't know how I never noticed that this includes lands as a bounce target. Unless I am misunderstanding something, this thing coupled with fastbond and any landfall trigger that gains 1 life enables infinite landfall triggers?

I was considering a list jump to 720 to include fun build around like stuff like Enduring Renewal and Aluren and was looking at Cloudstone as a combo piece. It seems potentially nasty with Tatyova, Benthic Druid and lab-man effects.

I guess in the same vein any bounce land targeting itself on ETB coupled with fastbond and lifegain landfall would yield the same results?

On a completely different note, I opened a Manabond in a MB2 pack and thought it might have potential coupled with some of the more GY focused ideas already posted here.

 

[EzPzJapanezy]

Hopefully this isn't against the spirit of the thread, but I have been thinking about how some land storm could easily pivot to 'real' storm in a list.

People here have already posted:



Its a really cool card. When trying to ideate low power storm a long time ago I spent a lot of time looking the Time Spiral block.

Song of Creation always reminded me to two pieces from that block somewhat combined / tweaked / buffed:



I think if I were to support land storm and spell storm side by side, Pyromancer's Swath is my favorite 'lynchpin' I can think of.

Turning a couple of the weaker land-oriented burn spells such as:



Into repeatable chain lightnings / lightning bolts is frankly disgusting.

Swath plays well with a lot of the Future Sight-esque effects posted to help with land-slinging strategies.

So much of the focus of land storm ideas seem to involve binning a ton of fodder for Mana generation. This constant fueling of the GY enables something like Underworld Breach to pop-off.

Breach is already gross with:



And Pyromancer's Swath assists with both fueling of the GY and turns Grapeshot into one hell of a sucker-punch.

Not a direct link but if you support Dragonstorm and / or Dragon Tribal, Avaricious Dragon plays into the whole 'Discard the heck out of your hand' plan a little bit. However, it might be a little to cute as I don't think Dragonstorm wants to be binning so haphazardly, so I worry this guy is only viable as a curve-topper in a hellbent-aggro oriented shell.

And as a final note, my favorite Storm art in the world:



Probably sucks, most likely will never be a viable win-con, but hey its Oracle text includes both the words 'land' and 'Storm', so why not include it for people to think about.

 

[EzPzJapanezy]

Sorry @Nanonox I'll stop spamming the heck out of your thread soon lmao. Just completely forgot about:



Absolutely bonkers good card that intersects both variants of storm in a single cube slot.

 

[Erik Twice]

I've been trying Chatterstorm and Awaken the woods and there's little information about it, so perhaps I should talk a bit about my experiences.

First, this is a fantastic piece for a plethora of decks. Naturally, it's great in combo decks by ramping you one turn before going off. But it's also a perfect card for Aristocrats, as it provides both mana and sacrifice fodder. Both in deckbuilding and the overall composition of the cube, it fills a double slot as token generator and ramp.

It is a very powerful card, slighty above Tinker and Balance but about par with Urza's Saga and a bit below Mox Diamond. What makes it acceptable in my eyes is that it's best in decks that always felt lacking. If you could cram it into goodstuff decks, it wouldn't feel right to me, but, frankly, Aristocrats and Lands could use the boost.

That said, there are a couple patterns that aren't very fair. For me the biggest one is playing it turn 1 with Mox Diamond, since four mana on turn 2 is just brutal. I'm less worried about boosting it with free spells on turn 2, since it requires very specific drafting, but it's still strong.

 

[Nanonox]

Sorry @Nanonox I'll stop spamming the heck out of your thread soon lmao.

Don't you dare!

Sorry ahead of time for the scattered thoughts, don't have a ton of time to clean up the post!

This is a very cool landfall enabler and can be played fairly or unfairly. It basically makes your lands into bouncelands a concept I haven't fully explored yet.

A sweet combo card for bouncelands is Kodama of the East Tree (it also works with Meloku the Clouded Mirror FWIW).

+ +

Or any landfall token maker (Tireless Tracker, Tireless Provisioner, Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith, Emeria Angel, ...).

The cool part here, is that Cloudstone Curio can replace the bounceland and make the combo work! Living Twister + Forest could replace a bounceland too, making infinite Landfall triggers.

Another potential Storm card



This doubles your landfall triggers, but can also just wins with some triggers like Palinchron. Seems messy to resolve alongside the Curio though...

On another note, MH3 has brought along solid options for land combo. Some of these would fit nicely with your idea of filling the GY and a more traditional Storm deck.



Skittering Precursor goes very well alongside the various land sacrifice effects netting you even more mana. What do you do with that mana? How about



This can close out the game or keep the mana flowing by allowing you to recoup all the lands you've binned. Also works with Loam and Slogurk to empty your hand.

Six offers you a free way to discard lands for value. Depending on your engine, maybe you want more cards with a Mishra's Bauble or a way to close out the game with Seal of Fire as a powered up Flame Jab. Either way, you are hitting all the right notes to do something busted.

Wight of the Reliquary getting you specific lands is a nice bonus as you can get finishers or mana. You can really go off if you have untappers like Paradox Engine and something like Bloodghast, Gravecrawler or the aforementioned Skittering Precursor.

I don't know what to do with The Necrobloom, but filling the GY and the board seems trivial if you have any sort of Lands engine running. Stuff like Hedge Shredder could allow you to convert the milled cards into mana which seems sweet!

There are some new Landfall win conditions in



Vinelasher has the advantage of working in both grindy and explosive lands decks and closing the game out pretty quickly. Hydra is more dicey, but gets huge really quickly.

 

[Seeker]

...Did anyone post the dumb commander card yet?



Takes some planning to get him to work but if you're already doing "lots of land drops in a turn"...

 

[spicewitch]

Flubs is one of the first cards i've seen in awhile, where after the initial
"Ah ha! That's a commander! You can't trick me into thinking that's a magic card!", I looked at it further and thought,
"oh, that actually doesn't have too many words on it"
"hey, that's a pretty cute marriage of Growth Spiral and Hellbent themes"
"but i bet the colors are slightly off like it's bant or something"
"oh it's actually temur?! well shit"

 

[spicewitch]

There's a lotta "whenever" cards here, turns might go a little long in these games,
so here's some "one-shot" cards (idk, you might manage to bring back later or something, can't imagine how!)

Card images aren't searchable, so it's a smidge difficult to be certain that people haven't already posted:

barbarian ring, mudflat village, centaur garden, (insert your favorite Trokair land, imo they're both cool)

buried ruin, tectonic edge, crystal vein, inventors fair

i'd love to see the full list-so-far if anyone's put it together!

 

[Brad]

I'd love to see the full list-so-far if anyone's put it together!

https://scryfall.com/search?q=o:"sacrifice+~"+t:land+game:paper&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name

Most aren't especially interesting. I think there's some sort of Brought Back / Second Sunrise / That 3W Sunrise / Splendid Reclamation / etc deck to be had if you lean on lands with sacrifice effects, but you're probably still better off focusing on fetches at the end of the day.

 

[EzPzJapanezy]

Splendid Reclamation as Untap-Storm



(Pictured cards if images broken: Aftermath Analyst, Splendid Reclamation, Overlaid Terrain, Amulet of Vigor, Tiller Engine, Scapeshift)

The lands + untappers is a little isolated compared to the other 3. You don't need to fiddle with the GY or recur anything, you just make a lot of mana.
The others are interesting and will all benefit from land recursion and extra land drops.

I agree, and to be honest this thread has been jumping in and out of my head for a long time now because of it. Untap Storm is great but the disconnect between it and the more graveyard focused angles proposed here bothered the hell out of me.

I stumbled onto Overlaid Terrain when researching enchantments and thought it was incredible. Its obviously terrible as a general game piece, but Mana Fixing and Acceleration combined is incredibly powerful. It is sort of in the same vein as Dragonstorm for me, it's awful but I feel almost primally compelled to make it work. Like traditional Untap Storm, any mana doubler like Mana Flare works great here, but Overlaid Terrain signals the Graveyard angle best (or Tectonic Split but ehh)

Mass Land Resurrection is an obvious synergy, but lands coming in tapped is a huge problem to capitalize off of Overlaid Terrains acceleration replacement effect. I have eyed Amulet of Vigor since the onset of my cube journey, and at the time it was held back by a lack of any sort of redundancy, but similar effects are starting to come into the game now:



(Amulet of Vigor, Tiller Engine)

These 2 are the best of the best. Dipping into Blue for artifact cloning is incredibly potent with both, Trigger stacking is *crazy* with them.



(Horizon Explorer, The Wandering Minstrel, Spelunking, Archelos, Lagoon Mystic)

These effects are not nearly as good, and unfortunately also 'nonbo' with the better enabler artifacts. But when you need redundancy you need it. It seems WoTC has been increasing support here as of late, it might get even better in the future. Couldn't pay me to run The Wandering Minstrel, though. Card is ugly as sin.

We have gotten more Splendid Reclamation effects since then too:



(Splendid Reclamation, Aftermath Analyst, World Shaper, Lumra, Bellow of the Woods, Will of the Sultai)

Green recursion like Regrowth / Eternal Witness can help reuse these effects as well.

If supporting Eggs, some classic options in White can act as a bit of Redundancy here too:



(Second Sunrise, Faith's Reward)

White also has some symmetrical effects that can get pretty rude here, while also binning lands for future recursion:



(Balance, Armageddon, Cataclysm)

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Hopefully MH3 will bring the Gravestorm cards everybody wants!

Some new Gravestorm cards printed since this thread was made are great win-cons here:



(Follow the Bodies, Ominous Harvest)

Mass Artifact generation with Follow the Bodies can gas quite a few cube cards that act as 'Karnstructs'. But since the point of this Untap Storm business is to generate a massive amount of mana, you should be able to sacrifice a lot of the generated clues. You can draw your whole deck or murder someone with clues using Marionette Apprentice or Mayhem Devil

Ominous Harvest is just great here.



(Dark Depths)

I think a list running this should consider the Dark Depths combo. I think 30 mana is achievable here, especially since some of the better Depths support pieces like:



(Mirage Mirror, Shifting Woodland)

Can also be used to double up / provide resiliency for the Untappers and Mana Accelerants.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

EDIT: I originally forgot to include anything about this, but such a strategy would need to dip heavily into Land Sacrifice cards. Preferably Mana Accelerants like Rain of Filth / Squandered Resources / Mana Seism, but lifegain effects like Zuran Orb or Overgrown Estate would suffice as well. Greater Gargadon would work great.

 

[Nanonox]

Since posting this thread, my combo land package has been bolstered. I've incorporated a lot of what you mention here, but came to slightly different conclusions. I say that without the intent of throwing any shade, we have different cube preferences and environments so naturally we won't align completely.

Ramp

I agree, and to be honest this thread has been jumping in and out of my head for a long time now because of it. Untap Storm is great but the disconnect between it and the more graveyard focused angles proposed here bothered the hell out of me.

Be it land sacrifice or untap-storm, I've found that these strategies work better with more lands on the battlefield. You get more triggers and more mana to work with. For that reason, I believe cards that ramp, especially those that give you multiple land drops in a turn, are the backbone of those strategies



They also work nicely with land recursion and landfall that you are probably supporting as well if you are this deep into the lands theme.

High Tide

I've been tinkering with High Tide recently and I think that it's an example of untap storm done right. You use the above ramp pieces (as Dom pointed out in my thread, Dryad is absolutely perfect here) and generate mana by using untappers such as



These have at least some play in other archetypes and aren't embarrassing to run in a more synergy focused cube. It gets even better with recursion for High Tide generating even more mana.

I point this out, because I think this is what Overlaid Terrain wants to be. See, what bothers me about Terrain is that it doesn't work with the ramp above in the right order. You want to stay as close as possible to 4 lands early and then ramp once your payoff is out. All the other payoffs work in the opposite order. Ramp first, then benefit.

Untappers + sacrifice

As you've identified, sacrifice outlets and untappers are the enablers that allow your payoffs to get very explosive. At your size, I think it's reasonable to include both to get the right density and diversity in draft. At smaller size though, the untappers seem very narrow and once again isolated from the rest of the strategy. I just don't see what other deck would care about an Amulet of Vigor vs Mayhem Devil and friends you once again pointed out and I agree with.

I would tend to run more ramp and more land sacrifice outlets to go with you payoffs like Scapeshift, Aftermath Analyst, Splendid Reclamation and friends rather than untappers. Would love to be convinced otherwise because Amulet is a cool card.

Btw, this could do work in the untap package you laid out

 

[LadyMapi]

What are our thoughts on

?

 

[EzPzJapanezy]

Since posting this thread, my combo land package has been bolstered. I've incorporated a lot of what you mention here, but came to slightly different conclusions. I say that without the intent of throwing any shade, we have different cube preferences and environments so naturally we won't align completely.

I include a traditional Untap Storm / 'High Tide' setup in my list like you. I don't think I would ever try to make Overlaid Terrain work in my current project, but I do think it better fits the spirit of a Graveyard Land Storm Environment than the traditional Untappers. It'd be fun to build an environment around making Overlaid work as a thought experiment.

What are our thoughts on

?

I like it. I think its ability to pop off easily is severely reduced when I compare it to the more 'free' land-tappers.

It is good with Mana Doublers, but I think a 'raid-boss' approach to land-untapping like Wild Growth, Utopia Sprawl, Elvish Guidance, Overgrowth, Lotus Field, etc would work best with it

 

[LadyMapi]

The other trick it pulls (which I think is less obvious) is that it guarantees that you can make a land drop for every single available land drop you have. It doesn't do anything other than trigger landfall if you don't have a land that taps for 2+ mana, but I feel like that could smooth out a lot of the spikiness of landfall as a strategy.

(You can pull the same trick with Trade Routes as well.)