FlowerSunRain
Contributor
These CCC cards sure pack a wallop:
Sets [KTK] Khans of Tarkir Spoilers
- Thread starter anotak
- Start date
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Self-mill people: does this card do anything for you?
Self-mill people: does this card do anything for you?
This card has been edited into the garbage can
Mantis Rider: Now I can play a horrible 8 lightning angel deck in modern!
Suppression Field: Yuck. You guys play a lot of the cycling one from urza's do ya? That one will probably be a dead card less of the time lol.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Normally, I don't like delve with my current self-mill setup: I run too many cards that care about # of creatures/lands in the yard and too many flashback spells, for even tombstalker to be worth it. There is also the issue of the self-mill deck milling its own delve cards, though their are many ways around that.
However, this card is powerful enough to be its own archetype, or at least an alternate win condition for certain decks. At the 6 mana point, I don't think 7-8 zombies is unreasonable. The
is a big problem for my particular cube though.
However, this card is powerful enough to be its own archetype, or at least an alternate win condition for certain decks. At the 6 mana point, I don't think 7-8 zombies is unreasonable. The
is a big problem for my particular cube though.
So I can't share images with my mobile all too easily, I'll assume you've all seen the spoilers for today.
1. Love the 3cmc rug dude. Good early, good late, good enough to possibly push rug in cube though?
2. New green enchantment is impressive with any 1/1 counter theme, but is a do-nothing. Is it good enough?
3. If anyone does run a multicolor theme, is lightning Angel for 3 with one less toughness worth it?
EDIT: the temur Khan better be amazing. They're waiting awfully long to unveil him.
1. Love the 3cmc rug dude. Good early, good late, good enough to possibly push rug in cube though?
2. New green enchantment is impressive with any 1/1 counter theme, but is a do-nothing. Is it good enough?
3. If anyone does run a multicolor theme, is lightning Angel for 3 with one less toughness worth it?
EDIT: the temur Khan better be amazing. They're waiting awfully long to unveil him.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
A self-mill deck should have many more than 4 cards in the graveyard at that point in the game. The spell also moves at instant speed.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
It's an instant, that has to count for something!
Self-mill people: does this card do anything for you?
As someone with lightning angel my first evaluation has been that a 1-cmc difference isn't that much more rewarding / it's harder to nail without green rainbow dorks, and that having your XYZ guy that you feel really accomplished for casting dying to bolt, agony warp, last gasp etc. etc. sucks but it feels less bad when they have to use flame jav. or something more premium.
Also angel just looks cooler.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
1) Does RUG needed to be pushed? Either way, I can see running this guy.
2) Well, James said no, I say yes. A lot of the enablers I run hugely benefit because multiple triggers are common enough that your creatures can get comically large. If you aren't straying far from the evolve aggro path, it might not be worth it.
3) In an abstract sense, its worth it. The niche is questionable. I'm not sure how themed the color combos are in a multicolor cube, but if your doing a quota "must have x dudes in these color combos" I think its a definite include.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Re: Empty the Pit
It seems like a unique card that can utilize the red/blue "dump stuff in the graveyard" effects that intersects (but doesn't combo) with replenish, threshold, madness, etc. Currently living death/diabolic servitude serves that role along with random resuable black dudes. is semi-problematic of course, but something as simple as casting attunement off any blue duel on three gets you to x=2 on turn 4 without considering your plays on turn 1 and 2 (possible looter, removal spell, whatever). Is this card at all interesting here?
It seems like a unique card that can utilize the red/blue "dump stuff in the graveyard" effects that intersects (but doesn't combo) with replenish, threshold, madness, etc. Currently living death/diabolic servitude serves that role along with random resuable black dudes.
is semi-problematic of course, but something as simple as casting attunement off any blue duel on three gets you to x=2 on turn 4 without considering your plays on turn 1 and 2 (possible looter, removal spell, whatever). Is this card at all interesting here?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Hmmm....I was imagining it more as B/u/g finisher, as bug has the self-mill, the ability to tutor for it and the ability to bring it back from the yard if milled. As a finisher in that deck, it dosen't have to worry about delving away the decks gameplan.
I'm having a hard time imagining it in a B/r/u list. What specific enablers do you have in mind?
I'm having a hard time imagining it in a B/r/u list. What specific enablers do you have in mind?
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
You know, I realized that I don't run White Sun's Zenith, which gives a very similar better effect at a comparable cost without requiring synergy and I'm not sure the color shift is of much use. Looters an such probably won't generate enough graveyard to make delve that great and the mana requirement is rough considering how much it leans on the other colors for enabling. I'm ruling this a dead end for now.
On a different note, are there any good green enablers that slot well into aggro r/g or r/u/g that would also fit nicely into b/u/g should I try to work with that at some point?
On a different note, are there any good green enablers that slot well into aggro r/g or r/u/g that would also fit nicely into b/u/g should I try to work with that at some point?
I'm not a fan of that card at all. As if quad B wasn't bad enough, you need a heck of a lot of cards in the yard to make the cost worth the effect. I'd much rather just cast Tombstalker and have a 5/5 Flying fattie.
A bunch of 2/2 tapped zombies is a pretty bogus reward for all that would have to go into making this card happen. And how stupid would you feel if your opponent has pyroclasm? And since the zombies are tapped, you can't even do a stealth block with them.
A bunch of 2/2 tapped zombies is a pretty bogus reward for all that would have to go into making this card happen. And how stupid would you feel if your opponent has pyroclasm? And since the zombies are tapped, you can't even do a stealth block with them.
Isn't Lightning Angel good enough as is? 3/4 flying vigilance haste is no joke.
She would be a windmill slam auto-include for me at 2RW (as is I'm running the inferior Firemane Avenger).
Lightning Angel is only excluded from my cube because I don't run tri-color cards.
She would be a windmill slam auto-include for me at 2RW (as is I'm running the inferior Firemane Avenger).
Lightning Angel is only excluded from my cube because I don't run tri-color cards.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Not too stupid, since this is an instant and Pyroclasm is a sorcery. Also, it's a one for one, even though resource-wise the costs aren't equal of course. Moreover, if they kept Pyroclasm in hand all that time and/or didn't board it out against your slow advantage deck, kudos to them!
It certainly can't be used defensively to any great effect with it's instant speed, or did you expect the zombies to come into play untapped on your BBBBXX spell?
My "self mill" decks usually end up using a lot of the cards that had been put in the graveyard for things other than casting their bad decree of justice, or you'd feel sort of dumb for playing the archetype.
Anyway I hope to god this is a great card and not just another abortion of the development process. I expect most people's cubes aren't rife with self mill archetypes though. I wonder how many cubes are still playing one of my favourite cards Skeletal Scrying. Or even one of the most ubiquitous self mill cards, Thought Scour.
My "self mill" decks usually end up using a lot of the cards that had been put in the graveyard for things other than casting their bad decree of justice, or you'd feel sort of dumb for playing the archetype.
Anyway I hope to god this is a great card and not just another abortion of the development process. I expect most people's cubes aren't rife with self mill archetypes though. I wonder how many cubes are still playing one of my favourite cards Skeletal Scrying. Or even one of the most ubiquitous self mill cards, Thought Scour.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
If you can cast this in any decent self-mill deck, you should be able to win the game on the following turn.
However, if you do not have decent self-mill decks, it’s horrible.
I think that’s a pretty thorough summarization of the card.
However, if you do not have decent self-mill decks, it’s horrible.
I think that’s a pretty thorough summarization of the card.
Really love the Sultai Charm and Savage Knuckleblade but can't imagine the first one in my cube, just like the other 3-colour charms it's not pulling you into its colours just for a flexible removal spell. the Knuckleblade is good though but I'm not sure if it will find into my cube because Rhox War Monk, Sprouting Thrinax and Lightning Angelalso didn't. Mantis Rider is falling into the same category.
Mardu Heart-Piercer suffers from being a red 4-drop, War-Name Aspirant is pretty cool but a terribly incosistent 2-drop as blockers in t1 and early removal spells aren't uncommon in my cube. EDIT: Raid doesn't say it needs to be unblocked so nvm
See the Unwritten is Tooth and Nail 2.0 in my cube, End Hostilities is just another cc5 wrath effect I'm going to run (I'm not running cc4 like the original Wrath because I want aggro to be a thing), Wingmate Roc is another solid 5-drop for white besides the likes of Battlegrace Angel, Cloudgoat Ranger and Geist-Honored Monk, and Herald of Anafenza is a pretty cool 1-drop but I'm absolutely unsure if it's too weak.
that's Khans of Tarkir for my cube so far. there's a pretty good amount of other stuff for my casual decks, though.
Mardu Heart-Piercer suffers from being a red 4-drop, War-Name Aspirant is pretty cool but a terribly incosistent 2-drop as blockers in t1 and early removal spells aren't uncommon in my cube. EDIT: Raid doesn't say it needs to be unblocked so nvm
See the Unwritten is Tooth and Nail 2.0 in my cube, End Hostilities is just another cc5 wrath effect I'm going to run (I'm not running cc4 like the original Wrath because I want aggro to be a thing), Wingmate Roc is another solid 5-drop for white besides the likes of Battlegrace Angel, Cloudgoat Ranger and Geist-Honored Monk, and Herald of Anafenza is a pretty cool 1-drop but I'm absolutely unsure if it's too weak.
that's Khans of Tarkir for my cube so far. there's a pretty good amount of other stuff for my casual decks, though.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Choice of 3color land?
Dom Harvey
Contributor
lol fuck this set
there's probably some shitty Legends card exactly like this
there's probably some shitty Legends card exactly like this
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Its a double think tank!
For me, this would work better as RUG, but its a pretty strong self-contained selfmill/"scry" engine.
For me, this would work better as RUG, but its a pretty strong self-contained selfmill/"scry" engine.