-1

[Brad]

WHAT IS IT?
A cube where all cards cost 1 mana less, as if you had a Helm of Awakening emblem out. I'll probably also make it so that land drops enter untapped so that the mana bases can unlock some new cards as well.

I think a lot of WOTC's designs are held back due to the potential of a Modern deck running 4 copies of whatever it is and killing on turn two. We won't have that issue here.

POWER LEVEL
I intend for the power level of this cube to be similar to a lot of what we are doing already.

I'm NOT looking to enable turn two Bloodbraid Elf via one mana Signets, turn one Lotus Cobra, or any other broken nonsense.

I AM looking to use Valley Dasher as an alternative to Goblin Guide, to make easily castable hybrids like Senate Griffin be more on curve, and give all colors some aggro options via colorless 2/Xs like Alpha Myr.

WHY?
The main spot where I believe the -1 mana will come into play for fixing nongames is the hand smoothing cards. If you've played with Serum Visions, Ponder, etc, you know how much more keepable the hands with the turn 1 smoother are.

The second most alluring thing in this format is the ability to use some bad two mana creatures as good one mana creatures, therefore making turn one more interesting.

An interesting potential of this format would be the new archetypes that pop up when the almost-good-enough cards become good enough with a mana shaved off their cost. I'll go into some of my ideas later and would like your thoughts as well.

 

[Brad]

HAND SMOOTHING
Blue usually gets all the fun here. White will still suck, but I'd rather have one color lacking than only have one color that can do it. I maybe double, triple, or quadruple run these. Not sure.


This is just OK because it can't grab spell or land without running a bunch of Legendary lands. Having the option is significant in fixing openers.


You already knew blue has access to a ton of turn one smoothing, but I wanted to highlight Scryvannah Lions.


Churn and Ransack might be too good if there's graveyard strategies present. If you hit the right stuff, you're looking at a virtual draw-3. Read doesn't seem so obscenely better than Night's Whisper.


Similarly concerning that Voice could over-enable the graveyard. The burn spells aren't quite as smoothing, but they're early interaction that can help. Exert the Scavenger if desperate.


Green really gets access to some efficient smoothing with its desire to find both creatures and lands.

 

[Brad]

COOL AGGRO FINDS

There's tons of colorless 2/X for two (AKA one) if we want to support either artifact aggro or just have our one drops be universally playable. Both aspects can be very beneficial.


Similarly, hybrids fit into 7 of the 10 guild pairs, assuming I know math. They're more interesting than most of the colorless guys and could also enable some kind of “color matters” theme. The Mimic cycle is pretty interesting, but probably too powerful when they work.

White, black, red and green have all the kinds of aggressive stuff you'd expect. I'll go more into some of their potential archetypes later. What I really want to talk about is that blue aggro has come to life:

Admittedly, I haven't searched for blue aggro yet, but you get the point. 2/1 flyer for U might even be excessive. Things that become aggressive at half the mana cost are at no shortage.

 

[Brad]

ZERO MANA?

These are all zero mana artifacts that seem reasonable if the ability is viewed as a sorcery. This is significant because a Hellbent or artifact deck can take advantage of having permanents in play. Other higher cost spell-permanents similarly enable this idea. They also cycle for one mana, increasing our smoothing a little.


Basically none of us play Memnite and I wonder what happens if we play Memnite+.


Also, morphs are 2/2s for 2. So, that's probably something.


OK, I think this ends the intro to the idea. I wanted to get a thread started and I'll probably be posting deck outlines as I think of them. Let me know your decks that almost work and might start to work if the cards were a bit more efficient, maybe I'll toss them in. It's a huge project because I need to look at every sort-of-bad card and then consider how they work together. It's like playing MTG with a completely different 10,000 cards.


Onder has a very loose startup of this idea here, which I tend to like the card choices on, more or less:
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcurve/34595

Tag me in that awesome new thread, bro

Done

 

[Onderzeeboot]

For a second I thought this thread had one downvote

Yeah, we should definitely look into morphs.

I also kinda like the supercharged Rampant Growths, like Cultivate at 1G is really good!

 

[Brad]

For a second I thought this thread had one downvote

Yeah, we should definitely look into morphs.

I also kinda like the supercharged Rampant Growths, like Cultivate at 1G is really good!

Man... I thought about that for sure and I'm so scared to push something better than Rampant Growth. If you go read the last page of CBS, you'll see that I'm hesitant to let people ramp. I dislike a lot of how it affects the format.

I've been wondering how to handle ramp here. I typically dislike how fast the 1-2 mana ramp jumps decks into the midgame but feel dissatisfied with how slowly 3 mana ramp does it. Peregrination is maybe a little interesting, but it's a really small upgrade.

I'm worried if we super Rampant Growth that we then have to make the aggro clock fast enough to still pressure those decks and then the format is so condensed that the 1cmc smoothing is negated.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

On the other hand, aggro decks are automatically going to be better, just because you're flooding the cube with 2/1's for one mana.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Flashback spells seem way better in this format:



Recoup seems especially strong here:

 

[Brad]

On the other hand, aggro decks are automatically going to be better, just because you're flooding the cube with 2/1's for one mana.

Maybe. I kind of do this anyways. It's gonna take some exploration, for sure. I'm betting we can manage to make hard aggro that has a midgame plan.

Flashback spells seem way better in this format:

You've stolen my next post!!!

Similarly, adventures get a huge upgrade.

Anything that you cast twice gets -2 mana, essentially, and looks really good, Sometimes too good, of course.

Think Twice seems like a great instant speed divination with optional payment plan.

Chainer's is a bit aggressive but I'm actually pretty comfortable with removal being a little pushed. I feel like good removal helps all decks on their curve, not just control.

Call was already good value but gets to be aggro value now. Call is a perfect example of a card I want to use. It feels about half a mana too expensive, doesn't it?

Recoup is probably really, really cool. Prowess LOVES it.

The others you listed are solidly a maybe, but I have to imagine I run those 4.

No time for a gatherer search tonight, as I worked late, but flashback is definitely on the menu.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

I think this format is going to turn out amazingly well if you curate it correctly. I'd just recommend keeping the density of 1 mana 2/1s to a minimum outside of colors you want to push for aggro. The smoothing in this format is going to be great, so most decks are going to have an easy time setting up their gameplans multiple turns before their normal cost cube counterparts.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Call of the Herd at -1 mana scares me, actually. That's crazy efficient.

 

[Brad]

I think this format is going to turn out amazingly well if you curate it correctly. I'd just recommend keeping the density of 1 mana 2/1s to a minimum outside of colors you want to push for aggro. The smoothing in this format is going to be great, so most decks are going to have an easy time setting up their gameplans multiple turns before their normal cost cube counterparts.

Ya. I have a hard time telling if it's better to run the colorless ones to keep them flexible or try to limit them to certain colors a little. I think it could be beneficial to give every deck access to them. Probably able to run some in colorless and then some that support color roles as well. Will definitely take some tuning.

Call of the Herd at -1 mana scares me, actually. That's crazy efficient.

See, this is tough. You're ok with Cultivate and I'm ok with Call. All these 'new' cards are killing me.

Got home late last night, but might be able to make some posts about multicolor cards later. I feel like that's the next step so that we can choose our color pairs or triplets and get some direction on that way.

 

[Knifethrower]

I like the idea of weird buildarounds that now have main-deckable stats so they aren't as speculative. They do need support though.


blaze commando
cunning breezedancer , enduring scalelord, Savage ventmaw, ruthless deathfang , swift warkite

stonebrow, krosan hero
azorious aethermage

Basic land cycling bears looking at, but may still be too weak/too fixy

migratory route et all

 

[Brad]

Digging most of those cards. Good examples of "this is cool but sucks" but it's just cool if you trim a mana. Also, seeing as they're all multicolored, it confirms my theory that the next place to look is at color pairings.

Basic landcycling cards, and cycling in general, are also usually costed up a bit, which we can fix, and offer a bit of a smoothing effect. Also some good ones to look at.

Will hopefully update with the options I recognize, one pair at a time.


Fertile Thicket is a weird one if I choose to have lands come in untapped. Use the effect of you need a land, ignore it or opt to not reveal if you don't. Also, Halimar Depths and New Benalia along with Temples are smoothing lands.

 

[Knifethrower]

I also am reminded of those limited staples that dont often make cubes because there aren't "powered" versions of them: Epic confrontation, Cartouch of Strength, Act of Treason, Lava Axe. etc

 

[Brad]

AZORIUS POST

Hybrids

Pretty aggro. Note the density of flyers as a deck option.

Flyers

Eagle and Guardmage are a bit much. Hussar is a load of fun.

Artifacts

Note that a lot of these also fly. Board the Weatherlight and Raff tie together a historic theme if we want to go into possibly Bant legends next to Esper artifact a la Shards of Alara.

Artifacts AND Enchantments

These WU cards can easily connect Bant enchantments into Esper artifacts. Again, possible to go Shards block, but with a not shitty Bant theme.
The three currently blank cards are from ELD. Shinechaser, Banish into Fable, Dance of the Manse.

Enchantments

If we go that route, these are all cool. GW would carry the bulk of the enBantments deck.

Other

Breeze can support Jeskai spells if we go there or slot into the flyers deck with a twist.
F//M seems really good. Solid, classic removal spell with a filter attached. Aethertow might hurt too much when it double hits, not sure.


Hope this post was short enough to read but long enough to get some insight to the beginnings of WU. More to come when I have time.

 

[Brad]

bUt It CaN't DrAw LaNds

Speaking on a possible Bant legends + Esper artifact theme similar to Shards, but with Bant as a real deck instead of housing a mechanic that sucks, let's see if it's worthwhile to enable Board to draw us lands. I suspect we have more wiggle room with our lands due to the "lands are all untapped" rule that I'm 90% likely to use.



Plus all artifact lands, which are likely not worth it and open up your lands to cheap LD or warp the artifact kill available to the format. Two solid picks here.



For the dedicated legends deck, these all seem worthwhile.



If we go enBantments but also keep Board.



These work well in a theoretical Shards Jund sac deck.


How good is Haven? Nykthos is great if we load hybrids. Paliano, might as well.



So, Board might have a pretty nonzero chance of finding a land in the right deck, but still not as strong of a smoother as what else we have going.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

You know what artifact "land" is worth it though?



The borderposts would be a pretty nice pickup for a white deck.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Empyrean Eagle is going to be over-powered as a 2-drop.

 

[Brad]

You know what artifact "land" is worth it though?



The borderposts would be a pretty nice pickup for a white deck.

I'm hesitant on two mana ramp. The original cube I had would Rampant Growth into 2GG fat bullshit all the time. Anyone have experience with turn 2 ramp where they don't feel like it accelerates one deck straight into the midgame? Borderposts were intentionally not mentioned due to all these factors, plus they have a weird interaction with the untapped lands idea.

I've been deliberating on them for a while now. They would fit a potential Shards2 theme, as they have a 5 allied cycle.

EDIT: I really hate the idea of artifact kill being LD. Especially if we go with an Esperfacts shard, which is a direction I currently find myself leaning. Further, in a normal WUBRG color wheel, W will be wedged between G and U, which are our two best smoothing colors in the format. Overall, might not even run Board. It has a 3% miss rate even if it can find half your deck, which seems like a LOT of historic cards to pack in.

 

[Brad]

DIMIR POST

Hybrids

Only one I liked, surprisingly, after WU was so full. Aggro body with a filter. Could be a bit too much, really.

Classic Graveyard

Works well with flashback being double buffed. Amalgam is probably fine at -1 because it's only actually a strong card normally because it costs 0. Lich clogs the ground a little too quickly for me, but maybe. G&G seems way too good, considering it was already good before the -1. We might not need Lich or G&G with extra hand filtering, anyways. Havengul and Possessed begin to look good and D//D is a little scary for how fast it mills, but Chris is running the Discovery half as a U-costed custom.

Artifacts

Silas might be a bit much. Architects might be a bit too weak. Most of the cards are possibly too narrow.

Other

Some aggro flyers and generally useful things. UB control looks to still be real, as you'd expect. The unlisted card is the ELD serpent.



It's the same themes as normal UB, but different cards.

 

[Brad]

RAKDOS POST

Hybrids

Nice hitter with some mid-late effectiveness plus a pretty interesting Monster Reborn that might be too good.

Hellbent seems pretty stupid, but look at all those cards...

Priest doubles into some sort of madness/yard kind of deck.

Sac

Judith is a bit much, but most of these are looking nice at -1.

Upsetness

These are pretty cool variants of discard effects that a lot of decks would be happy to have. Also supports a graveyard based strategy.

Spectacle and/or Classic Aggro

BR has always been good at this.

Other

Hellsteed/Sire are a very BR mid-late kind of creature. Warkite seems really interesting. Auger is nice removal. Upheaval looking quite fair to me and has filtering. Return is maybe a bit much, but it's a cool card that I wanted to have listed.



Rakdos is looking like a fast sac and/or graveyard deck. So, not a lot has changed from full costed formats.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

You're definitely pushing for a more powerful cube than I would if you're considering stuff like Shambling Remains. That's a 4/3 for two (!) mana!

 

[Brad]

You're definitely pushing for a more powerful cube than I would if you're considering stuff like Shambling Remains. That's a 4/3 for two (!) mana!

It's in consideration with 24 other cards for a total of 3-4 slots in a 10 guild or 6-10 slots in a 5 guild/tri build. The power level is going to depend on where it looks like the pieces will set it. It's also one of the less interesting cards in the list.

A lot of these cards that have been made very recently are actually at a good power level and can't take the -1 mana buff. I just looked through GW and it's an issue. "Efficient size for the mana" is such a GW thing that there weren't that many cards to consider once they were buffed.

Even in the BR section, like half the cards are really pushing the limits. It's going to be tricky to dial in, but it's fun to see the new ELD commons and think "wow, that's super powerful!" For example, I think I'd like Lyzolda as my 2cmc and Blazing Hellhound as my 3cmc from the ones listed as sac deck cards. Judith and Devil are too pushed at 2. Brawl-Bash seems like he will under-perform sometimes. Still, the stats on those two alone are quite a bit of pressure. So do we abandon the sac deck based on that? Have to see how the other decks look comparatively, first.

That isn't to say you shouldn't call me out if something's looking out of place, just to say that I'd rather keep the options open for now. I find it very unlikely that Ol' Shambly makes the final build.

 

[Brad]

If I decide to pursue the 5 guilds plus 5 tricolor setup, I'm going to need
THREE COLOR CARDS
Probably 2-3 per combo, five combos total. Let's see what we've got.


Alela is Super Omega Nighthawk and is probably too pushed. Dies to bolt redeems her a little.
Sludge and Gargoyle seem fine. Gargoyle a bit aggro, but it's a 3c card, so I don't hate it.
I'm outspoken against high value ETBs and Sharuum is no exception. Running her would mean effectively banning all high impact artifacts to lessen her effect.

Esperfacts is probably a legitimate deck.


Ogre and Sojourners are decent hitters with a side effect. Drake is pretty quick and evasive.
Sedris seems to have potential once we trim a mana.
Mini Cruel is looking good at 4 along with Slave as a Super Threaten that supports sac, aggro, and control.
Cruel is probably still sweet at full cost.

Overall, some sort of Grixis control looks good. Ogre plus Sedris can work well in a fastish or slowish deck and encourages the yard.


Easy sac deck here. Broodmate probably too strong and the rest seem fine.


Possible sweet multicolor deck. Rienne is a little pushed on stats. A common theme for -1, it seems.
Other than that, plenty of sweet monsters for Naya.


Bant's an ugly mess. I always hate Bant. Bless The Black Cube for dodging this trash.


Bunch of stats and a bit of +1/+1 counter interaction on the same cmc. Not really that interesting, but it's decent.


We already discussed how Morph is improved here, so I like Kadena.
Soothsayer looks great at -1.
Muldrotha might be a bit too much at 5cmc.


Besides Elsha, who was already good, these all come alive at -1. Love Jeskai here.


All four drops. Not very thematic or interesting. Dislike.


I like Tusker but don't love Companion. Intet's fine but fails to impress. Temur had super few options.

This leads me to look at a color wheel of:
Sultai Morphyard
Jund Sac
Naya Multicolor Monsters
Jeskai Spells
Esperfacts
as the best-looking wheel.

There's also consideration for:
Sultai Morphyard
Abzan Lame Counters
Naya Multicolor Monsters
Jeskai Spells
Grixis Control
if I wanted to run Grixis so badly that I'd lose Jund+Esper for Grixis+Abzan. The second set has the benefit of running UR as a main pair, which is pretty big for the Jeskai deck that looks so good.

The other combos all include 2 semi-bad trios or 1 trash trio, so they're out.

I should also note that I'm leaning away from heavy graveyard interactions. The black and red filtering spells feed the yard and start to look scary if the yard is too powerful of a resource.