A deceptively bad cube

Hey guys,

Over the last three-four weeks, I've finally made a draft of my first cube. I'm going to be heading to work soon, so I just want to put it up. I'll come back later to add my thoughts, but here is a quick summary:

Heavily influenced by Grillo's cubes (Ninjas and bounce-lands are the most obvious example).
Low-ish power
Not singleton
I've actually split the categories as follow:
-5 Colors
-Artifact
-Lands
-Multicolored
-Hybrid (Can be in either color. This includes cards with alternate flashback color in a color that might be able to discard/mill the card.)

Here's the list:
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/105052

And draft:
http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/105052

The original one is gone, I accidentally added a blank cube on Cube Tutor. When I went to deleted it, I typoed on my password. I re-entered, but didn't notice the error reset my selection to the first cube. Bye bye original cube.http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/96540http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/96540
 
I didn't look at the list before drafting and I ended up with this. P1P1 was between Drake Haven and Toxic Deluge. Toxic Deluge seemed much more powerful so I ended up going that route. I think it's probably too strong for the list and makes Pestilence and Rags // Riches seem pretty mediocre. I liked that I was able to draft a primarily 2 color deck that gets rewarded for also running mountains through Jilt and Mystic Retrieval. In pack 3 I saw an early Secrets of the Dead that I really really really wanted to take but I didn't because I was sure that it would wheel. It didn't. I wish I was able to pick up Elixir of Immortality too but that's how it goes sometimes.

I ended up with 3 ninjas, some fliers, and a splicer in my sideboard which I think would be an interesting sideboard plan. I didn't feel like I had enough creatures to make it my mainboard plan since I wasn't trying to pick them and ended up with them accidentally.

From what I saw during my draft I really liked the list outside of Toxic Deluge which again seems way too powerful.

UBr Control from CubeTutor.com










 
Thank you for the feedback!

I am actually a bit worried that Secrets of the Dead and Drake Haven and both too weak (more like they don't have enough support). I was wanting to do something with Toxic Deluge that might have been a bad idea. I wanted to make Black control hemorrhage life. A large Toxic Deluge would end up killing you with the pay life for draw, and removal, adding another color would help with the control by saving you life, and WB control might have less card advantage, but would have the life gain to ofset the life loss. I think that this might not be a great idea though.

I'll write more when I get home!
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
There is a lot of tech in here that I like, and the list looks solid.

Few thoughts:

-About drake haven specifically, I've not been overly impressed by the card from a min/max perspective. Its still in the list mostly because its a card that people just seem to enjoy playing, and its blue, which is a color that can afford to sacrifice some slots for some more narrow but fun card. Bad spike card, good johnny card.

-The reanimation suite looks brutal. The thing with reanimation, is that it dosen't just allow for ETB abuse, but it also stresses removal suites (blink has the same effect), which is why its so powerful in these fair lists. There is a reason that I have reanimation priced at 4cc+, in sparse density in my list, conditioned, or shifted away from black (hymn of rebirth/resurrection/bishop of rebirth), and thats to prevent it from overwhelming the other colors. Its prone to creating repeative sequences that are very difficult to beat.

In PP1, one of the easiest ways to win games was the draft as much reanimation as you could, and see how many times the opponent could kill pelakka wurm. Its particularly brutal in combination with unburial rites. In this list you have two copies of honored hydra, and one pelakka wurm, which means (when combined with the density and quality of black reanimation) you can draft decks consistently able to string together 3+ removal check bodies. And honored hydra can be hitting as early as turn 5 with bounceland support, while being much easier to cast than wurm.

-A couple places that are fun to break singleton on are master splicer and rusted relic. Having two copies of those cards really gives the splicer deck some draft consistency, and allows for some big dramatic plays. Another one that might be fun would be two copies of life from the loam.

-I would probably consider nights whisper > skeletal scrying read the bones. A lot of these lists have important things going on at 3cc, and I've found one of the big problems with putting too many utility effects or removal effects at 3cc, is it starts to fatten out the curve in ways that are not desirable. As a whole, I think you've done a good job avoiding that though. Usually where its a big problem is 3cc red direct damage, or unconditioned (usually multi-color) removal.

-Also probably want one more red token maker. Something like a mogg war marshal--basically just a cheapish and consistent 2-3CC card that can go wide and help get ninjas in on something like a curve. Also maybe lava dart > flame jab.

Other cards that I suspect will quickly reveal themselves either too outright strong for the format, or too good stuffy resulting in less interesting synergy drafts:


 
Thank you for the feedback!

I am actually a bit worried that Secrets of the Dead and Drake Haven and both too weak (more like they don't have enough support). I was wanting to do something with Toxic Deluge that might have been a bad idea. I wanted to make Black control hemorrhage life. A large Toxic Deluge would end up killing you with the pay life for draw, and removal, adding another color would help with the control by saving you life, and WB control might have less card advantage, but would have the life gain to ofset the life loss. I think that this might not be a great idea though.

I'll write more when I get home!


I think the idea with Toxic Deluge and the other black paylife spells is a valid one. I remember there being a discussion here, somewhere about designing WB and or GB decks that can offset the life loss and that one of the dangers of doing that is that you would end up with UB Control decks that try to use those black cards but actually just end up killing themselves. I definitely had that in the back of my mind when I saw Skeletal Scrying and thought, this is good but this is probably not for me. I remember thinking, is Ribbons of Night enough to make this work and then I decided that it probably wasn't.

I just think Toxic Deluge is too efficient and has too much effect on the board. Like, If I pay five life to 3 for 1 my opponent, I think I'm ok with that exchange.

There is a lot of tech in here that I like, and the list looks solid.

Few thoughts:

-About drake haven specifically, I've not been overly impressed by the card from a min/max perspective. Its still in the list mostly because its a card that people just seem to enjoy playing, and its blue, which is a color that can afford to sacrifice some slots for some more narrow but fun card. Bad spike card, good johnny card.
[/ci]

This is definitely why I almost first picked it. Reckless Wurm and another red madness card were in the pack so my thinking was that, I could probably do something with this pile of cards.
 
There is a lot of tech in here that I like, and the list looks solid.

Few thoughts:

-About drake haven specifically, I've not been overly impressed by the card from a min/max perspective. Its still in the list mostly because its a card that people just seem to enjoy playing, and its blue, which is a color that can afford to sacrifice some slots for some more narrow but fun card. Bad spike card, good johnny card.

-The reanimation suite looks brutal. The thing with reanimation, is that it dosen't just allow for ETB abuse, but it also stresses removal suites (blink has the same effect), which is why its so powerful in these fair lists. There is a reason that I have reanimation priced at 4cc+, in sparse density in my list, conditioned, or shifted away from black (hymn of rebirth/resurrection/bishop of rebirth), and thats to prevent it from overwhelming the other colors. Its prone to creating repeative sequences that are very difficult to beat.

In PP1, one of the easiest ways to win games was the draft as much reanimation as you could, and see how many times the opponent could kill pelakka wurm. Its particularly brutal in combination with unburial rites. In this list you have two copies of honored hydra, and one pelakkawurm, which means (when combined with the density and quality of black reanimation) you can draft decks consistently able to string together 3+ removal check bodies. And honored hydra can be hitting as early as turn 5 with bouncelandsupport, while being much easier to cast than wurm.
Thank you, I'm glad.

As for Drake Haven, I guess it'll stay in for now, while I solidify the idea of what I am doing with the cube.

I guess you're right about the reanimation. I was originally thinking I'd have weaker creatures, but went back and added a few stronger ones since I felt the cube didn't really have any big cards that a player might want to ramp into or use as a finisher. I added Pelakka Wurm since it's ETB effect didn't game breaking. Following this, I assumed the life loss from Life / Death (along with all the other black life loss) might make it weaker. In addition, the other removal was either to be more expensive or be attached to enchantments, which were meant to be more vulnerable. However, as you've said, this might be op. I'll need to rethink the reanimation suite, I expected it to be less strong (weaker creatures, and bigger drawbacks/vulnerability of the reanimated creatures).

The reanimation was a big part of the Black identity in the cube. I didn't give black a lot of discard effects. Red and Blue would give it looting while Green and Blue would allow a self mill strategy. I wanted it to be difficult to have a monoblack reanimation part of a deck.

One of the Honored Hydra was a Roar of the Wurm. I wanted it because of the self mill. The idea of tokens worked well with white, the fact that it worked from the grave worked well with blue and red. I then realised Black/Green was getting a "Number of Creatures in Graveyard" theme, which, along with the fact that I was worried that the lack of trample would make the Roar of the Wurm unplayable, I decided to replace it with another copy of Honored Hydra

I did want some EtB for the Simic Blink deck.

-A couple places that are fun to break singleton on are master splicer and rusted relic. Having two copies of those cards really gives the splicer deck some draft consistency, and allows for some big dramatic plays. Another one that might be fun would be two copies of life from the loam.

-I would probably consider nights whisper > skeletal scrying. A lot of these lists have important things going on at 3cc, and I've found one of the big problems with putting too many utility effects or removal effects at 3cc, is it starts to fatten out the curve in ways that are not desirable. As a whole, I think you've done a good job avoiding that though. Usually where its a big problem is 3cc red direct damage, or unconditioned (usually multi-color) removal.

-Also probably want one more red token maker. Something like a mogg war marshal--basically just a cheapish and consistent 2-3CC card that can go wide and help get ninjas in on something like a curve. Also maybe lava dart > flame jab.

I had two Master Splicers earlier. I might go back (I'm also missing Blade Splicer, and I've cut Maul Splicer for Pelakka Wurm when I was trying to add big creatures). I'll have to rethink this.

How would two copies of Life from the Loam work? I'm already feeling I might not have enough lands that would end up in the graveyard. I also don't want the lands engine deck to be too powerful. I had cut from two to one Magma Vortex.

I quite like Skeletal Scrying, so I'd hesitate to cut it, but I can add Night's Whisper instead of some of the reanimation.

I'll get a copy of Lava Dart.

As for Token producers, I had Mogg War Marshall which became a second Young Pyromancer. I'll have to change red's token suite with the following:

Other cards that I suspect will quickly reveal themselves either too outright strong for the format, or too good stuffy resulting in less interesting synergy drafts:



I wasn't happy with the Falkenrath Aristocrat (for other, unrelated reasons), but I was having a hard time with the RB gold section. But this all makes sense. I'd be fine with switching these. (suggestions for the Kitchen Finks replacement could be nice). Pia and Kiran Nalaar had replaced Beetleback Brigade Beetleback Chief.


I think the idea with Toxic Deluge and the other black paylife spells is a valid one. I remember there being a discussion here, somewhere about designing WB and or GB decks that can offset the life loss and that one of the dangers of doing that is that you would end up with UB Control decks that try to use those black cards but actually just end up killing themselves. I definitely had that in the back of my mind when I saw Skeletal Scrying and thought, this is good but this is probably not for me. I remember thinking, is Ribbons of Night enough to make this work and then I decided that it probably wasn't.

I just think Toxic Deluge is too efficient and has too much effect on the board. Like, If I pay five life to 3 for 1 my opponent, I think I'm ok with that exchange.

I think I remember reading that as well. I'll find a replacement for Toxic Deluge, thank you.
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
I quite like skeletal scrying too, when I wrote that, I meant read the bones. My apologies, I corrected the post. I just got the two cards mixed up.

So, here is basically my thoughts on the lands deck. I'm sorry that I wasn't more articulate before. When I saw the vortex and the loam in the same cube, my mind went back to my own experiences with vortex, and shifted down the lane of further developing the Green Baron deck--which 2nd loam would be great for, hence its suggestion.

I found vortex to be quite bad. The main problem with those decks, is binning lands has to be better than playing them--and I found that a hard sell, with lackluster results even when decent shells were assembled. Vortex itself sets you back a card, and because it does nothing on its own, has all sorts of consistancy problems when its drawn out of sequence with its support. Because discarding lands often times runs counter to what a lot of R/x based decks want to do, it was difficult to grok, and prone to all sorts of misdrafts.

That being said, I think the environment where it would be most happy would be one where the ramp decks are less about getting ahead on mana, and more about consistently hitting their land drops. More satyr wayfinder than llanowar elves; or you can think of them as Baron ramp decks, self-milling for mana, recyling whatever they need back into the library, and using the self-mill as a sort of smoothing effect by reprograming the library. In that environment, life from the loam is a powerful ramp card with a clear identity, and the more narrow molten vortex can poach off of all of those support pieces to make a comfy home for itself.
 
Hey there! I think that my list is a slightly higher power level than yours but is running a lot of the same themes, which is very interesting! I recently added a Deaths Shadow package to my cube that runs as an interesting aggro parallel to the slower pay life gain life control decks you're trying to promote. Gonna do a draft and report back.

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Very cool tokens deck came together. First picked dusk // dawn to build around and was not disappointed. That + Flesh Carver or Hangarback Walker are notably sweet. Being a 3 color ideally aggressive deck feels a little bad with only taplands, but the deck has enough reach that it might not be an issue.

What is Leave // Chance in the list for? Seems like a really narrow effect.
 

Laz

Developer
I wasn't happy with the Falkenrath Aristocrat (for other, unrelated reasons), but I was having a hard time with the RB gold section.
...
I think I remember reading that as well. I'll find a replacement for Toxic Deluge, thank you.

Fire Covenant! Sorry, that is the first thing I thought of when I saw Fulcrum's comment:
I just think Toxic Deluge is too efficient and has too much effect on the board. Like, If I pay five life to 3 for 1 my opponent, I think I'm ok with that exchange.

There is a lot to digest in your list, but I like a lot of what is going on. I haven't had time to stew over it, but I suspect I will be referring to it for card ideas in future.
 
(suggestions for the Kitchen Finks replacement could be nice)

Judging by some of your other g/w choices would it be right to assume that green should be "going wide"? From that perspective here's a list of suggested replacements for Finks. Loxodon Hierarch (protects your board while going wide & gives Finks' lifegain), Juniper Order Ranger (rewards going wide), and Selesnya Guildmage(helps you go wide & rewards) perhaps even Asmira, Holy Avenger(some insurance while going wide).
 
I quite like skeletal scrying too, when I wrote that, I meant read the bones. My apologies, I corrected the post. I just got the two cards mixed up.

So, here is basically my thoughts on the lands deck. I'm sorry that I wasn't more articulate before. When I saw the vortex and the loam in the same cube, my mind went back to my own experiences with vortex, and shifted down the lane of further developing the Green Baron deck--which 2nd loam would be great for, hence its suggestion.

I found vortex to be quite bad. The main problem with those decks, is binning lands has to be better than playing them--and I found that a hard sell, with lackluster results even when decent shells were assembled. Vortex itself sets you back a card, and because it does nothing on its own, has all sorts of consistancy problems when its drawn out of sequence with its support. Because discarding lands often times runs counter to what a lot of R/x based decks want to do, it was difficult to grok, and prone to all sorts of misdrafts.
Noted.

This makes sense. RG can do things similar with the plethora of cards that want to be discarded/in the graveyard, and the Stormbind/Meteor Storm.


That being said, I think the environment where it would be most happy would be one where the ramp decks are less about getting ahead on mana, and more about consistently hitting their land drops. More satyr wayfinder than llanowar elves; or you can think of them as Baron ramp decks, self-milling for mana, recyling whatever they need back into the library, and using the self-mill as a sort of smoothing effect by reprograming the library. In that environment, life from the loam is a powerful ramp card with a clear identity, and the more narrow molten vortex can poach off of all of those support pieces to make a comfy home for itself.

I wanted the Mystic Elf equivalents because of the idea of a ramp/reanimate deck (which I think PP1 had) and some UG tempo required them. However, with the recent gripe with Reanimate effects, I think I could double down on BG's graveyard deck, and UG's can get a bit stronger too. I'd be happy with another Satyr Wayfinder, and a Life from the Loam.

For the Baron deck, I've included only one Gaea's Blessing, but two Memory's Journey (subject to change).

Add to the list of cards that stand out as being too strong:



Cube looks good, will be interested to see what direction you take it in when you start tuning it.

Dang, I even had Gifts Ungiven in it at one point. I felt the FoF would provide a cool mini-game, and some self milling in blue, which had less than I liked. Thank you though. I might have to look for some replacement self-milling.

Judging by some of your other g/w choices would it be right to assume that green should be "going wide"? From that perspective here's a list of suggested replacements for Finks. Loxodon Hierarch (protects your board while going wide & gives Finks' lifegain), Juniper Order Ranger (rewards going wide), and Selesnya Guildmage(helps you go wide & rewards) perhaps even Asmira, Holy Avenger(some insurance while going wide).

The idea for GW was twofold:
- White has Tokens, which tends to be "Go Wide" (This work better with red for the Rally the Peasants). Green can make tokens, but not a large number. So the idea is that GW gives tokens in both colours, with token buffs (W) and populate (WG). Green, however, provides much better tokens. So a Green White deck might populate 4/4s or 6/6s rather than 1/1s.

-White has a lot of creatures that bounce one of your own on EtB. Green has a few (I think two currently), but green has more EtB effects you might want to recycle. This is sort of like a Blink deck, that is also present in Blue.

Tbh, I had a hard time with the GW archetypes. I considered Flash/Tricks, +1/+1 Counters, Humans, Tokens, Blink, Enchantress (the cube had more enchantments. Enchantress + Auras that reanimate (B), or count as removal(WBug), gain control(U), ramp(G) or buff(GR) was to be an archetype in various colors.) So I would not be surprised if this seems weak/needs improvement.

Thoughts on the suggestions:
I like all of these except Asmira (I'd like to avoid cards that have not received new printings in a while, I want the cards to do what they say, Asmira has old wording and is missing her creature type).

I'd like to also avoid Regeneration if possible (for newer players), but the Loxodon Hierarch might work. I like that it is not repeatable and that it has a decent EtB effect that isn't game breaking.

I quite like Juniper Order Ranger, the only worry is that people might think GW +1/+1 counters is a deck.

Selesnya Guildmage is an odd one. I've always thought her abilities were too expensive to be good, but she apparently takes over games. I like that she can give wide buffs in monowhite.

I'm hesitating between the last three. Selesnya Guildmage might be the way to go though.
Hey there! I think that my list is a slightly higher power level than yours but is running a lot of the same themes, which is very interesting! I recently added a Deaths Shadow package to my cube that runs as an interesting aggro parallel to the slower pay life gain life control decks you're trying to promote. Gonna do a draft and report back.

Hi!
I'll have a look at your list for inspiration as well!
Death's Shadow is unfortunately fairly expensive atm (I'd assume you'd need two), but that sounds really cool, I'll keep it in the back of my mind. I'd like the possibility of having something like a BW life managing or BR suicide as two themes that stem from black's life loss.

Mardu 2 Power Tokens from CubeTutor.com











Very cool tokens deck came together. First picked dusk // dawn to build around and was not disappointed. That + Flesh Carver or Hangarback Walker are notably sweet. Being a 3 color ideally aggressive deck feels a little bad with only taplands, but the deck has enough reach that it might not be an issue.

What is Leave // Chance in the list for? Seems like a really narrow effect.
:)
This is good! Grillo recently ditched the 2nd set of bounce lands from his PP2 cube, thereby going singleton. I'm wondering if doing something similar to add ETB untapped lands might be worth it, but I'm also worried this might make the format a bit too quick and agro a bit too strong.

I hope that you have enough reach. It might have been Grillo, but I remember reading that someone said that aggro decks should not try to go under the other deck, as this makes boring games, but should rather deal early damage and finish up with a combo finish, or by an interesting reach plan. Red has this with direct damage, and I was hoping to recreate this in other colours with mass recursion, Blood Artist, or direct damage. Of course, red is still king in this category.


Leave / Chance exists for white "blink" decks as a mean to save your creatures and reset EtB Effects, in red decks as discard fodder than can also exchange your bad cards late game. Red was supposed to have enough graveyard interaction that this would actually work as a weird type of red Think Twice. I do agree it is a weird inclusion. I might want to replace it. I was thinking I should maybe have a second:


To make RW Life Gain more a deck, but the Sun Droplet makes me nervous.


Fire Covenant! Sorry, that is the first thing I thought of when I saw Fulcrum's comment:


There is a lot to digest in your list, but I like a lot of what is going on. I haven't had time to stew over it, but I suspect I will be referring to it for card ideas in future.


:)

I actually was fairly against having multicolour only removal. I feel this could work if you're wanting to push a certain type of deck (Supreme Verdict as a wrath only WU can run to push Azorius Control was an example I've seen). However, I wanted multicoloured cards to encourage certain decks, and removal doesn't push in any direction (except for, arguably, goodstuff midrange). I feel like there could be a lot to discuss about the topic, like how it might encourage three colour control, how I see removal as support that I think should be as available to all as possible and so on.

I'm pleased :)
 
Set of changes:Out->In
Read the Bones->Night's Whisper
As discussed above.

Pelakka Wurm->Maul Splicer
I've now got enough big beaters that I can add the Splicer back in. I think this is a power down, but I'm uncertain.

Kitchen Finks->Selesnya Guildmage
As discussed above.

Llanowar Elves->Life from the Loam
Elvish Mystic->Satyr Wayfinder
To try a more Land-Grave green.

Hero of Oxid Ridge->Hellrider
I think this is a power down, but I'm not even certain. I like the Hellrider though.

Toxic Deluge->Evincar's Justice
Either this or Black Sun's Zenith, which might be a bit too strong. I do like the idea of a Transmute + BSZ engine (I'd cut Dimir Cutpurse for a second Dimir Infiltrator, which I had been considering, and add more transmute to Black). This keeps in theme for Life Loss black, but might be too weak. This could also work as a control finisher with Sun Droplet and a bit more life gain.

Falkenrath Aristocrat->Tymaret, the Murder King
I rather like this. Keeps the Aristocrat theme (even in title!), but not a vampire, in case one day someone tried to make a Vampire deck work.

Animate Dead->Vigor Mortis
Fairer reanimation that can work with BG +1/+1 counter deck.

Hedron Archive->Rusted Relic
Hedron Archive had been added as the last Artifact card while I was looking for filler. I was also worried ramping for 2 at 4 might be too much. Also as discussed above.

Edge of Autumn->Crushing Vines
Return to the Earth->Crushing Canopy
With Satyr Wayfinder and Life from the Loam being doubled, I now feel confident enough in my ability to bin lands. Don't need Edge of Autumn as a weird ramp. I'll miss the Cycling, but this didn't play well with the Abandoned Sarcophagus. I have a special restriction on Artifact/Enchantment Removal I'll elaborate on later, but these fit while giving green one more way to deal with flying, which I felt it was lacking.

Tentative:
Necromancy->Grim Return
This is a test. Seems fairer. Might be too weak. I should maybe just cut one reanimation spell.

Flame Jab->Lava Dart
I'm not certain about this. I might want to keep it for the Burning Vengeance synergy, or just remove it outright.

Jilt->Geistblast
I had Jilt in my hybrid section, but a mono-red deck can't play it. Fixed. Sorry Fulcrum.

Epic Experiment->Marauding Looter
I realised the Epic Experiment would never work how I'd want it to. In my head, it worked as a piece of self-mill you'd use semi-late in the game as a way to stabilize, and generate enough value to then win. I don't think a control deck that gets to 7 mana is in that bad a shape. I considered switching it to a second Mindswipe, which I just love, but I saw the (quite pushed) Marauding Looter. This would fit into a weird UR Aggro, for which I had included Dragonshift as a card that will probably often be last picked, but that might make magical moments. It might be too strong though. I had also considered Call the Skybreaker.

These are cards I'm currently thinking of possibly switching out:
(5)
Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Molten Vortex
Lava Dart
Fact or Fiction
Dragonshift


About:
-Pia and Kiran Nalaar: (I want to keep testing it, I love the Artifact synergy, as I feel my WR Artifact deck might be a bit weak)
-Lava Dart: As discussed above.
-Fact or Fiction: As discussed above. But I really like it.
-Dragonshift: Seems weak, and I doubt it'll ever see play. I just hope. But I considered cutting it, Epic Experiment/Marauding Looter for Enigma Drake and Spellheart Chimera as a weird Vore deck (Which would play differently than normal UR, which normally would cast the Instants and Sorceries in its graveyard).

And some I'd like to add in:
(8)
Beetleback Chief
Moment's Peace
Gaea's Blessing
Makeshift Mannequin
Master Splicer
Mogg War Marshal
Call the Skybreaker
Oona's Grace


About:
-Beetleback Chief: Placeholder Pia and Kiran Nalaar replacement. Lacks Artifact Synergy though.:(
-Moment's Peace: I feel this could help a Green control deck, it's also a fog I can stand.
-Gaea's Blessing: 2nd copy, I might then remove both Memory's Journeys.
-Makeshift Mannequin: Weaker reanimation. Might be too weak.
-Master Splicer: 2nd copy. As discussed above.
-Mogg War Marshal: Extra red Tokens.
-Call the Skybreaker: Interesting finisher for Red or Blue. Can be milled/discarded. Might be overwhelming late, especially with green.
-Oona's Grace: I wanted to fit that in. Could maybe replace Drake Haven in the future.
 
I think Hellrider is quite a bit stronger than the Hero. Something like Heart-Piercer Manticore is sweet

Fact or Fiction is extremely strong. You already have Careful Consideration, which is my goto stand-in for FoF at lower power levels, so I'd say you can do something entirely else with the slot. Maybe something like
 
I think Hellrider is quite a bit stronger than the Hero. Something like Heart-Piercer Manticore is sweet

Fact or Fiction is extremely strong. You already have Careful Consideration, which is my goto stand-in for FoF at lower power levels, so I'd say you can do something entirely else with the slot. Maybe something like


I had the Heart-Piercer Manticore in an earlier version, where Red/Green cared about creature's power. I felt I was lacking a way to buff tokens though, which is why I wanted Hero of Oxid Ridge or Hellrider. I was also thinking Ogre Battledriver, but he seemed too strong, Pursue Glory seemed nice, but I'd feel low on creatures. I liked Scourge Devil, but the 5 slot is fairly full already while the four mana one is lacking.

I just realised Lightning Surge doesn't have the reminder text for Threshold.

Lightning Surge out. Scourge Devil in.

Hellrider out for being too strong. Quicksmith Rebel in.

Now that I have another piece of Artifact interaction, Pia and Kiran Nalaar can come out, Beetleback Chief can replace to keep the token creation.

Commit // Memory is an interesting one. I don't like how Memory can act as grave-hate (which is another topic I'll address), but maybe the thought of refilling the opponent's hand might be enough of a drawback. I don't like how it can undo the work a Spider Spawning or Baron deck has done though. I did, however, just read on MTG cube about a deck that used it to go through its deck twice with lots of draw in ramp which seemed very interesting.

I'm worried about blue's lack of filtering to the grave and CA. Since FoF seems to be way above power level, I'd be fine with switching it to a second Careful Consideration for now, before I get a feel for how blue runs.

Fact or Fiction out. Careful Consideration 2 in.
 
Two CC is also strong. Digging that many cards is quite strong.

You might want to consider buffing your filtering to the grave at different CMCs. A very useful pair of cards to consider:

Both sorcery speed helps keep them from being degenerate, and they cleanly fill GY synergy roles.

Another 4 CMC card that has worked very, very well for me, and signals the decks in the proper colors


I'd say that Memory isn't that hard of grave hate, especially since it does draw them new cards. I've similarly really grew fond of struggle // survive for its survive half, which is proving far more useful than I thought. It slows down the GY plans, but doesn't permanently lock out their game, and it recycles important cards for you too. Memory feels similar.
 
Two CC is also strong. Digging that many cards is quite strong.

You might want to consider buffing your filtering to the grave at different CMCs. A very useful pair of cards to consider:

Both sorcery speed helps keep them from being degenerate, and they cleanly fill GY synergy roles.

Another 4 CMC card that has worked very, very well for me, and signals the decks in the proper colors


I'd say that Memory isn't that hard of grave hate, especially since it does draw them new cards. I've similarly really grew fond of struggle // survive for its survive half, which is proving far more useful than I thought. It slows down the GY plans, but doesn't permanently lock out their game, and it recycles important cards for you too. Memory feels similar.


I wanted to differentiate blue and red looting by giving Red smaller looting, more suited for madness, while Blue's would be more conditional, time restricted and expensive. I originally had Faithless Looting, which I had removed because the discarding of two cards made it harder to use with Madness, but seeing how red has moved towards casting from the grave I might re-add it.

Frantic Search doesn't really fit with these restrictions, but I really wanted to test some of Blue's untapping.

I had considered Ancient Excavation but I was worried it might get snapped up by random decks wanting the land cycling. I do however quite like it. I'll see if I can make a cut for it.

Thank you!
 
Updated the list a bit and finally received all the cards. Hoping to test it soon!

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Hi all!

We drafted for the first time last night. We were 6 and decided to instead play a 6 player game where you can only attack and target the two players to your right and left and a range of influence of two.

I ended up winning off like this: Six cards left in the Library, we're five people still alive. I'm at 34 due to Gnaw to the Bone, and have Coiling Oracle, and a token copy on the field. Instead of drawing I dredge Life from the Loam. I cast LftL getting three lands back, then surge Crush of Tentacles, followed by Coiling Oracle revealing Temple of Epiphany. The scry shows a Thrashing Mossdog which I put on the bottom I can remember which card I've not yet seen, and I want to draw it. During the next turn cycle people pretty much almost tap out to recast their boards to the best of their ability. On my turn, I draw my card, cast Spitting Image copying Coiling Oracle revealing the Mossdog, which goes to my hand. 0 cards in my library. I cast:



from my opening hand which was my first pick in pack 3. My friend says he will kill me, as he has a board wipe.

I cycle



which I drew this turn (this is the card I put on top by scrying the Mossdog to the bottom). GG.

The player to my left remarks that she's been holding removal all game and this is the first time in something like 4 turns that she tapped out.

Here were the decks (minus basics) in drafting order (clockwise):
Creatures (15)
Memnite
Chronomaton
Rakdos Cackler
Bloodsoaked Champion
Servant of the Scale
Ambush Viper
Bloodrage Brawler
Winding Constrictor
Reyhan, Last of the Abzan
Olivia, Mobilized for War
Hell's Thunder
Falkenrath Noble
Vital Splicer
Bloodhall Priest
Greater Gargadon

Artifacts / Enchantments (2)
Animation Module
Staff of Nin

Instants / Sorceries (6)
Gaea's Blessing
Cut // Ribbons
Fiery Temper
Never // Return
Consume the Meek
Decree of Pain

Lands (4)
Dread Statuary
Temple of Malice
Temple of Malady
Inventor's Fair

(0)


Creatures (5)
Young Pyromancer
Quicksmith Rebel
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer
Reckless Wurm
Scourge of Nel Toth

Artifacts / Enchantments (5)
Sun Droplet
Journey to Nowhere
Oblivion Ring
Pestilence
Contagion Engine

Instants / Sorceries (14)
Firebolt
Ulcerate
Galvanic Blast
Lightning Helix
Ichor Slick
Sweltering Suns
Geistblast
Forsake the Worldly
Ambition's Cost
Alchemist's Greeting
Fumigate
Devil's Play

Lands (1)
Terramorphic Expanse

(0)


Creatures (11)
Ornithopter
Carrion Feeder
Jeskai Barricade
Cartel Aristocrat
Rotting Rats
Bloodthrone Vampire
Whitemane Lion
Monastery Mentor
Big Game Hunter
Flesh Carver
Yahenni, Undying Partisan

Artifacts / Enchantments (5)
Hidden Stockpile
Shrine of the Loyal Legion
Grafted Wargear
Blasting Station

Instants / Sorceries (8)
Innocent Blood
Undying Evil
Murderous Compulsion
Servo Expedition
Lingering Souls
Start // Finish
Chastise
Evincar's Justice

Lands (3)
Ash Barrens
Orzhov Basilica
Temple of Silence

(0)


Creatures (13)
Court Homunculus
Steel Overseer
Selesnya Evangel
Satyr Wayfinder
Burning-Tree Emissary
Porcelain Legionnaire
Bygone Bishop
Crocanura
Rishkar, Peema Renegade
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Master Splicer
Ridgescale Tusker
Sensor Splicer

Artifacts / Enchantments (4)
Leonin Scimitar
Throne of the God-Pharaoh
Intangible Virtue
Bonehoard

Instants / Sorceries (4)
Prepare // Fight
Blessed Alliance
Spectral Procession
Return to the Earth

Lands (4)
Scoured Barrens
Rugged Highlands
Jungle Hollow
Wind-Scarred Crag

(0)


Creatures (13)
Coiling Oracle
Hope Tender
Satyr Wayfinder
Voyaging Satyr
Aquastrand Spider
Laboratory Maniac
Thrashing Mossdog
Roaring Primadox
Species Gorger
Honored Hydra
Shefet Monitor
Krosan Tusker
Hangarback Walker

Artifacts / Enchantments (3)
Vulshok Morning Star
Meteor Storm
Stormbind

Instants / Sorceries (7)
Life from the Loam
Gnaw to the Bone
Careful Consideration
Sudden Reclamation
Crush of Tentacles
Spitting Image

Lands (8)
Tranquil Thicket
Thornwood Falls
Temple of Abandon
Temple of Epiphany
Simic Growth Chamber
Gruul Turf
Izzet Boilerworks

(0)


Creatures (14)
Doomed Traveler
Slitherhead
Augury Owl
Reassembling Skeleton
Kor Skyfisher
Skaab Ruinator
Stonecloaker
Fleshbag Marauder
Wydwen, the Biting Gale
Ninja of the Deep Hours
Emeria Angel
Sky Hussar
Stormfront Riders
Species Gorger

Artifacts / Enchantments (1)
Favorable Winds

Instants / Sorceries (8)
Devour in Shadow
Zealous Persecution
Deep Analysis
Dismiss
Murderous Cut
Migratory Route
Spider Spawning
Evacuation

Lands (8)
Evolving Wilds
Dismal Backwater
Golgari Rot Farm
Azorius Chancery
Selesnya Sanctuary
Dimir Aqueduct

(0)


The feedback has been ok. I've been told it seems very thought out, people noticed that I had themes. People did feel lost, I guess because of the lack of staples or obviously good standalone cards. Many people draft a large number of colours (3-4, only the BW token was drafted as a two colour deck). I would have preferred to play 1 vs 1s. It felt complicated to draft, but I don't know if that's only because of the lack of experience. I'll take pictures of the sideboards in case someone would want me to post them. I did find someone of the choice of cards left in a board a bit... weird?
 
Played a 1 vs 1 sealed.

There are a few things on my mind atm.

- I want a bit more consistency for "Combos". Stuff like the Searing Meditation life-gain deck needs to get Searing Meditation.
- I feel like there might be a lack of removal for Artifacts and Enchantments (mostly in RG).
- I feel like by removing the cheap reanimation, I've heavily weakened the BR deck. There's still some BR decks to be had, but nothing super definitive.
- Red's burn numbers might be weird? Almost everything deals 2.
- Red doesn't actually discard very many cards. I feel like it might have lost it's looting.
- There is very little recursion for permanents outside of green. I'd like a few gravedigging effects in black and artifact/enchantment recur in white, non land in green. This, along with the extra looting might fix the lack of "tutoring", in a better way.

Changes:

Geistblast -> Mystical Retrieval
Ongoing Investigation -> Memory's Journey
Gaea's Blessing -> Nature's Spiral
Shreds of Sanity -> Recoup
Gift of the God-Pharaoh -> Tamiyo's Journal

Pestilence (WB) -> Pestilence (BB)
Dragonshift -> Teleportal
Failure // Comply -> Feeling of Dread
Meteor Storm -> Stormbind

This increased a bit of synergy
Geistblast doesn't actually cast from the graveyard, which made it weird with Burning Vengeance and Secrets of the Dead.
Memory's Journey x2 now lets me do Baron without Gaea's Blessing, which I don't like in cube decks that use the mono green self-mill don't want to shuffle back in by accident, neither can they not if they reveal it. It's basically a blue card. So now it's in the Hybrid section and can actually be used both ways, by each colour: blue can reprogram their deck, a bit more weakly though(no draw), but without needing green. Green decks that might want the partial reshuffle can do it without risking their graveyard.
Nature's Spiral is some of the recursion I thought I needed, that can work from the grave with a little build around, now that there are more ways to cast instants/sorceries from the graveyard.
Shreds of Sanity to Recoup allows for more interaction with Burning Vengeance / Secrets of the Dead along with an extra cards that does work when milled.
Gift of the God-Pharaoh is apparently GRBS, I've tried it once, and it won the game for me. Tamiyo's Journal slightly edged out Seer's Sundial I've been meaning to try, but this gives me some tutoring.
Pestilence will no longer be the only white bordered card in my cube.
Dragonshift is a bit too expensive, and the ability has a bit of an anti-synergy with prowess since they only get the buff to 4/4. Teleportal I think is more versatile with Ninjas for example. If this doesn't work out, I've been thinking of another Mindswipe, which I love, or a big rehaul towards #of instants/sorceries in the graveyard.
Failure // Comply took a hybrid spot but would never be used in a white deck without blue. Feeling of Dreadx2 is the current replacement. I also like Sky Hussarx2, but I don't know if it's decent.
Meteor Storm is just a worse Stormbind that plays less well.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Gift of the God-Pharaoh was replaced by Tamiyo's Journal, not Throne of the God-Pharaoh
 
Your changes all look decent.

On the searing meditation life-gain deck. You've got two approaches (and can do both) - include tutors that can search for meditation, or have other lifegain matters build around cards so you have redundancy for the deck.

I happen to like tutors for this reason, but you need to get the amount and balance right for your format. Other than the black tutors, which can search for most things, you're looking at maybe



Tutor also fetches your well of lost dreams. Drift of phantasms also fetches you secrets of the dead and burned vengence.

Apart from that you haven't really got any life gain build arounds, you might want to think about adding some others, depending on how deep you want to go:



Path of bravery seems particularly good with all your token stuff. And I could see feudkiller's verdict having fun with trostani etc.

Worth bearing in mind this is probably a white/X deck, rather than white red, because other than your other two gold cards that gain you life there isn't any triggers or life gain in red. You might want to think about upping artifact life gain too to support it. What kind of deck is this? Is it aggro that uses the meditation for burn and reach, or is it more midrange and control? That will help you make sure you've got the right build arounds and support for what you want to do.

The other approach is using life pay effects to cause you to look for life gain to counter balance it. You've done this, but I think you have way to much pay life in black and hardly any life gain to support it. You've got:

ulcerate
ulcerate
devour in shadow
skeletal scrying
night's whisper
ambition's cost
evincar's justice
pestilence
deep analysis
life // death

That's all kind of fine, but your life gain is fairly anemic. You could overlap the black/white life gain sac with, for instance:



There's other incidental life gain you could look to include, just off the top of my head, but there's more:



And there's a whole bunch in green if you wanted to go that way.

------

Yeah, would agree that red black isn't very well defined. I don't agree it's because you've removed cheap reanimation (I think life/death still needs to go, and really think you're cheating by including it in green); as you can still build a decent reanimator with the 4CC+ cards, but there isn't a lot of support for it. You might want to try to define what you want rakdos to do (or suggestions for what you want and try to give it some more support). At the moment it's a bit aggro-y, bit discard-y/madness-y.

-------

Yes, you probably haven't got enough red discard effects. Most obvious of which is faithless looting, which would support your spells matter aggro as well, and can be cast from the graveyard for those triggers. Really not sure why that's missing?

--------

Sorry if some of that sounds a bit negative. There's lots I do like, I think you just need a bit more tweaking and refining, being clear about what kind of decks you want to be available.
 
My dear Alfonzo, thank you for the feedback!

Your changes all look decent.

Thank you :)

On the searing meditation life-gain deck. You've got two approaches (and can do both) - include tutors that can search for meditation, or have other lifegain matters build around cards so you have redundancy for the deck.

I happen to like tutors for this reason, but you need to get the amount and balance right for your format. Other than the black tutors, which can search for most things, you're looking at maybe



Tutor also fetches your well of lost dreams. Drift of phantasms also fetches you secrets of the dead and burned vengence.

You're right, I had been looking at a few possibilities. Enlightened Tutor and Idyllic Tutor are the two that stood out, but I am not a huge fan of tutors. That being said, the cause of that is EDH, which is not cube, so let's leave that baggage at the door. I like the tutors more than the transmute cards. So while Drift of Phanstasm can do more things, I'd be fine with having white as the "color with the cheap tutor" that build around decks might want to include. I'd be quite down to include it. It is now on my list of cards to add.

Apart from that you haven't really got any life gain build arounds, you might want to think about adding some others, depending on how deep you want to go:



Path of bravery seems particularly good with all your token stuff. And I could see feudkiller's verdict having fun with trostani etc.

Worth bearing in mind this is probably a white/X deck, rather than white red, because other than your other two gold cards that gain you life there isn't any triggers or life gain in red. You might want to think about upping artifact life gain too to support it. What kind of deck is this? Is it aggro that uses the meditation for burn and reach, or is it more midrange and control? That will help you make sure you've got the right build arounds and support for what you want to do.

So here's the thing about Searing Mediation. I didn't want to make a lifegain deck. I wanted to make something more a package. Something you can add to a deck already going into that direction. You've sort of hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that it doesn't really have a deck type. I'd like WR to have the possibility of adding it to their deck as a sort of reach plan while a control deck could add it as a way to stabilize and win. Now, I may be entirely speaking from lack of experience. This might be a common trap that noobs fall into where you think this might be a thing, but it just creates a lot of bad drafts when someone tries to make the deck. I don't yet know. I'm about to find out I guess. I don't remember if I had mentioned, but I had considered adding another Searing Meditation (probably to replace Lightning Helix), which might give it a bit more consistency, while still not being enough to trick people to build into it. I also think that even if you start building a lifegain deck, the lack of cards that fit might naturally push you towards a "real" deck, either agro or control WRx.

The other approach is using life pay effects to cause you to look for life gain to counter balance it. You've done this, but I think you have wayto much pay life in black and hardly any life gain to support it. You've got:

ulcerate
ulcerate
devour in shadow
skeletal scrying
night's whisper
ambition's cost
evincar's justice
pestilence
deep analysis
life // death

That's all kind of fine, but your life gain is fairly anemic. You could overlap the black/white life gain sac with, for instance:



There's other incidental life gain you could look to include, just off the top of my head, but there's more:



And there's a whole bunch in green if you wanted to go that way.

This is true. There is a lot of black life pay in there. I'm thinking of cutting Evincar's Justice, partially because I wonder if I've got too many board wipes. However, I'm still not quite sure what to do here. I like the idea, I like the amount, and I feel like any given problems would show up in drafts, where I'll be able to tell more. The idea was to force the B deck to either self-select the amount of life pay it plays, or to highly pick life gain.

Now, I did agree with you that my life-gain was a bit lacking, but taking another look, it didn't seem that bad. I have quite a few effects, all semi narrow mind you, but white has access to these:
Sacred Cat (this is small, but with equipment, it can get fairly noticeable)
Blessed Alliance
Prepare // Fight x2
Seeker of the Way x2
Aven Riftwatcher which is repeatable
Chastise
Fumigate
and tricks with Condemn, if you're really in a pinch.

With Colorless:
Elixir of Immortality
Sun Droplet
Pristine Talisman

Add in all the lifegain lands, and ways to reuse them.

All of which can be scaled with the game (no flat lifegain) by buffing your creatures, careful timing, or simple reuse. In addition, the defensiveness of white along with the extra power of the cheap suicide control black cards I feel should be enough to keep you from taking random damage here and there.

Stuff like Devour in Shadow on the 4/4 to Chastise the 6/6 is the way to go.

Also, while Green has lifegain in the cube, it has to work for it (Gnaw to the Bone) other that than, I didn't really want to put much lifegain in black or green, as I wanted it to be uniquely white, and honestly, I think green's lifegain is so much better it would just overshadow white's.

Yeah, would agree that red black isn't very well defined. I don't agree it's because you've removed cheap reanimation (I think life/death still needs to go, and really think you're cheating by including it in green); as you can still build a decent reanimator with the 4CC+ cards, but there isn't a lot of support for it. You might want to try to define what you want rakdos to do (or suggestions for what you want and try to give it some more support). At the moment it's a bit aggro-y, bit discard-y/madness-y.

Yeah, unfortunately. I saw Life // Death as a mono-black card, but cube tutor moved it over. I was convinced no one would ever play life, but have since come around to it (crazy with Fires of Yavimaya). I don't know if I was planning on having creatures strong enough to be worth reanimating at 4 mana (they'd seem a bit too high power, Scourge of Nel Toth I wish were a 4/4). I don't know what creatures would be worth reanimating at 4 mana.

The idea for BR, way back when, like three weeks ago, was this:
Red would have looting, or discarding as a cost;
Black might have "everyone discards"; (Some self discard, but quite limited.)
Both would have madness.
This enables a "madness package".

In addition:
Red gets tokens;
Black gets self-recurring creatures;
Red gets mass buffs, and a bit of sacrificing;
Black gets a lot of sacrificing for value.
This makes an aristocrat-like package.

Also, Black gets reanimation and self-recursion, which has synergy with Red's looting, which makes a reanimation deck.

This was the base idea. Continued in the next bit.

Yes, you probably haven't got enough red discard effects. Most obvious of which is faithless looting, which would support your spells matter aggro as well, and can be cast from the graveyard for those triggers. Really not sure why that's missing?

And here we get to it. Red and Blue both get looting. I wanted them to be different. Red's looting would be suited to Madness. Lower cost, fewer cards at a time. This means you can do a BR Reanimation Tempo deck, but not a Blue one, since looting for the first time on turn 4 is not really conducive to it. However, and this point, I'm really worried by the lack of cards in both red and black that work from the graveyard. Looting effects would actually feel like throwing stuff away, rather than storing it for later. (I've seen then probably overcorrected). For this reason, I don't want to add cheap blue looting (unfortunately, all the cheap good looting creatures are in blue, I'd love them to be colorshifted to red.) and wanted to keep red looting fairly low in terms of impact. Now, however, I'm certain you can have a card you want in the grave as the same time as a card with madness in your hand, so Faithless Looting is basically made to go in. I just need a cut.

Sorry if some of that sounds a bit negative. There's lots I do like, I think you just need a bit more tweaking and refining, being clear about what kind of decks you want to be available.


No, man, this was great. I've explained my reasoning, and also came out of this with a few more changes I'd like to make. This was very helpful!

I've had a look at your cube. We're essentially going for the same thing, but at different powerlevels (not super far off, but I think you're higher power thna I am). It's always interesting to look at lists with such a relation for ideas.

Thank you!
 
Some more changes I've made:

Reassembling Sekeleton -> Bloodghast
Evincar's Justice -> Barter in Blood
Feeling of Dread -> Judge's Familiar
Ambition's Cost -> Damnable Pact
Perilous Myr -> Enlightened Tutor (See below)
Tormenting Voices -> Faithless Looting
Wharf Infiltrator -> Spiketail Hatchling
Rotting Rats -> Bloodghast
Life // Death -> Carrion Feeder

And: Porcelain Legionnaire from White to Artifact.

I've tried to buff BR both in the Aristocrat and in the filtering, while removing a source of lifeloss for black, as well as yet another sweeper (black has enough).

I wanted to give the WU decks a bit of a way to delay wraths, but Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is apparently $20 now, so I've looked elsewhere.

Also I had Ambition's Cost and Skeletal Scrying in, and wanted Damnable Pact but only wanted 2. Damnable Pact is more interesting and versatile than Ambition's Cost.

The discussions above had to do with many of these changes.

After these, we had a small 4 person draft. The decks were:

Me: RB Cycling/Burning Vengeance Control (I got Abandoned Sarcophagus and Burning Vengeance, and splashed white in some games), a lot of removal, Scourge of Nel Toth, and some madness stuff, that didn't make it in.
Sg: Esper Evasion: Had Draining Whelk, Bloodghast, Bloodsoaked Champion, Rags // Riches, Hidden Stockpile, Sky Hussar and Thunderclap Wyvern.
Ay: Esper Tokens: Favourable Winds and Intangible Virtue, Spectral Procession and Migratory Route, Monastery Mentor and Sphinx's Revelation. I don't remember why he ran black, he likes playing many colors. (Just remembered, he played Mystical Teachings)
Sf: GB +1/+1 and Grave it seems: Hangarback Walker, Winding Constrictor, Steel Overseer, Spider Spawning, Gnaw to the Bone, Bloodghast

Sg drafted with us last time, and had played the 2nd deck (WRB Control)
Ay was drafting with us for the first time, and usually plays 5 color.
Sf drafted with us last time, and had played the first deck (GBR +1/+1 Counters), and always pronounces Malady as M'Lady.

We played every pair:
Me Sg, I won in 3
Me Ay, I won in 3
Me vs Sf, Sf won in 2
Sg Ay, Sg won in 3
Sg vs Sf, Sg won in 3
Ay vs Sf, Ay won in 3.

All the games were close, I had 3 notable moments per match:
Me vs Sg:
I've got lethal on him, and he's trying to stabilize. He Ribbon of Nights my Young Pyromancer. I don't want him to gain the 4 and draw, so I cast Scrap from the grave, targeting my Abandoned Sarcophagus, triggering Burning Vengeance dealing 2 to my Young Pyromancer to make his spell fizzle, winning next turn.

Me vs Sg, again:
I've been stuck with a Cathartic Reunion in hand that I worry he would counter, but this is late game, neither of us have anything on the board, and we've playing draw-go for a bit. I cast as bait Throat Slitter, which he Draining Whelks, which I Never // Return, which he Memory Lapses. I put it top of my library, he's out of blue, and I Cathartic Reunion pithing two swamps (the rest of my hand), getting Never // Return back, which I use on his Draining Whelk.

Me vs Sf:
I give up tempo, letting her overrun me over her next two turns while casting Devil's Play with X = 9 to her face, setting me up for lethal next turn (land in hand gives me the win from the flashback). She brings me to low single digit life and passes. I drop my land, flash it back, and she in response casts Gnaw to the Bone gaining 6, and killing me on the backswing.

GG!
 
Hey guys,

I want to make a few changes to the cube:

WU: A bit more flying synergy (flying numbers is good), a bit more cost increasers, some kinds of engine for control decks.
WB: More early aggression, specifically in white (needs some 1 mana 2/1s). Needs a bit more lifegain.
WR: More early aggression (this is a theme, you'll see), and a bit more Searing Meditation synergy.
WG: More early aggression, probably in white. Green gets efficient creatures, but at higher cost, white should have the cheap ones. Maybe a bit more EtB effects for the "blink" deck.
UB: Blue needs a bit of help on the aggressive end.
UR: Blue needs a bit of help on the aggressive end.
UG: Seems fine?
BR: Needs a big change. BR control seems to do well, but lacks focus, maybe needs to focus more on engines? Maybe more control based Madness and ditch madness agro? The aggro portion, however, also needs a revamp. Vampires could be a thing, or I could also add +1/+1 counters synergy, artifact synergy or even hellbent.
BG: Seems good. Maybe buff the # of Creatures in graveyard with a bit more earlygame, otherwise they just play generic creatures.
RG: The agro deck needs help. Adding +1/+1 counters to red could fix this, but then +1/+1 becomes a jund deck, and why only play two colors? Could do power matters.

Some of these might be easy, and just require cuts (what to do with white agro), while others might be way harder (what to do with red agro).
Thoughts?
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
I'm not sure what to suggest about the aggressive blue creatures in U/r and U/b. There are some more 2cc evasive flyers or shadow creatures you could add (to carry equipment), but for U/W you say already have enough flyers? Whats going on there?
 
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