A deceptively bad cube

The discussion within the last few posts brought this card to mind, which fits into all three themes you identified for green (big graveyard, +1/+1 counters, and power matters), but is tempered by the fact that delirium needs to be on in order for it to be relevant to the other two themes (similar to Obsessive Skinner, which you are running):


I worried that Soul Swallower could overrun games in a similar manner to Kalonian Hydra. They both require one turn to be bigger than the largest creature in the cube that can attack normally (Havenwood Wurm and Krosan Tusker), but Soul Swallower can just wait it out, since the cube has a lot of defensive cards. It feels like it would too easily turn into a "find removal or lose", and I've played enough EDH to learn to dislike the "I guess I win" on turn 12 that made the small eecked out cards advantage worthless.
 
So, food for thought:

I just Cubetutor drafted this deck:

WR Fast Aggro from CubeTutor.com










I may have included too little creatures, I'm not super sure, I'm not used to drafting aggro. But this has a high number of fast aggressive creatures. I'm wondering, however, if this can win matches in my environment. I'll try to try something of the sorts next draft. This might fold really hard to turn 3 Sweltering Suns, the defender deck, or Blessed Alliance.

Is this a good aggro deck? Is this "high power" aggro enough for my cube? Is the lack of reach a problem? Does the cube just stifle aggro?
 
I could see that deck having problems. The signal pests, orinthoper, lifestaff, sai and prepare are not contributing a whole lot. It could run out of cards before getting opponents low, and the boros garrisons interfere with curving out
 
I could see that deck having problems. The signal pests, orinthoper, lifestaff, sai and prepare are not contributing a whole lot. It could run out of cards before getting opponents low, and the boros garrisons interfere with curving out


I was hoping the mix of evasive creatures + equipment could amount to something, but I guess they'd suck without the other part. It might be better just to try to get more regular creatures. The Boros Garrisons were a way to condense more mana into the same amount of land, but I agree they could make for awkward games.

Is this better? Do you feel cards should be added to the cube to help this?

WB Aggro Aristocrats from CubeTutor.com











EDIT:
Also this one seems cool:

WU Prowess from CubeTutor.com







 
Me [2-0-1]
Rw [2-1]
Ah [2-1]
Ab [2-1]
Sf [1-1-1]
Mk [1-2]
Ss [1-2]
Cs [0-3]

Round 1
Me 1-1 Sf
Rw 2-0 Ah
Ab 2-0 Ss
Mk 2-0 Cs

Round 2
Ah 2-0 Sf
Me 2-1 Rw
Ss 2-0 Cs
Ab 2-0 Mk

Round 3
Ah 2-0 Ss
Rw 2-1 Mk
Sf 1-0 Cs
Me 2-1 Ab

My point of view:
Drafting // Thoughts on cards:
First picked Warkite Marauder over Spider Spawning, but this took a long time. I knew I wanted to try an aggresive deck, since I was worried about their performance. Spider Spawning's deck ended up seemingly wide open, with it totally wheeling every time I saw it. I was actually to the right of Ah, who also ended up drafting WU. She stole all my Feeling of Dreads, which apparently ended up doing great in her matches. I've picked Seeker of the way and Farm // Market over them. She, however, in pack two, passed both p1 Fumigate and p3 Dusk // Dawn to me. She apparently hesitated hard on whether to pick Fumigate or the other card, and decided on the card that she doesn't remember. I was happy to get them, but only played the Dusk // Dawn which did quite poorly, while the Fumigate stayed in the sideboard. I had heard that sweepers were actually great in any limited decks, but I don't think this is the case in my cube. My deck felt more like a Tempo deck, that sometimes drew Dusk Dawn and would die before it did a difference, than a midrange limited deck that could take advantage of it. Lesson learned. I also wondered if the two Farm // Market did end up better than the two missed Feeling of Dreads. 3 mana ended up being a ton. Also, Pack two was full of R and B cards, probably luck, with two packs that after 5 or so picks had no non-land, non Rakdos coloured cards.

Match 1 Me [1-1-1] Sf (WB Lifegain)
Game one took something like 35-40 minutes out of our 50 minute rounds. I mulled a "great" hand with two Plains, where I'd only need an Island, I know how this works. I look at the top card and its my Island I end up keeping an ok 6. She turns two Sun Droplet right before being hit down to 12 from 20. Between it, Black Sun's Zenith, Chastise, Bloodbond Vampire, Scourred Barrens, she ended up at 21 something like 6 turns later. From then, I'd try to get enough creatures to push momentum through, but the Sun Droplet REALLY hindered it. Something about making a single 2/2 useless felt really bad once you've been sweeped and are trying to topdeck more creatures. She re-drew Black Sun's Zenith and Wall of Limbs while I tryed to survive as long as possible to find out if she had another sweeper. Ab finished his match early and came to watch the end of this game, and the rest of the round. Game two I boarded in Increasing Devotion thinking of it and Rally the Peasants being a strong combo. Never drew it, nor did I need it. She's a bit afraid of what my deck does, as I turn attacking two 2/2s into a 0/3 and a 3/3 into 5 life for me, and a wiped board for her, for two mana, so she starts letting me in through more often. She starts feeding cards to Trading Post to gain 4 a turn, and I beat her in turns. We don't even start game three, knowing we'll just tie it, and accept the [1-1-1] score (maybe should hav been [1-1]?).

Match 2 Me [2-1] Rw (Naya Value)
In game one, I mulligan to 6, and keep a hand with a Plains and Temple of Silence, hoping the two scries will help me find a blue source. On turn 5 or so I draw Temple of Epiphany and that does not end up being enough. He overruns me with Overgrown Battlement, Wall of Blossom, two Vent Sentinels, Bygone Bishop, Fleetfoot Panther, and Aven Riftwatcher. Some say he's stick cracking clues to this day. I think he ended up playing a Blessed Alliance against me each game. Game two I mull to 6, and decide I'm more likely to win off the ~20% chance of getting the lands I need than by a mull to 5, which my opponent says is suicide in this format. I miss my third land drop, but not the next two. Ab finishes his match early and comes watch my match. He tells me to come meet him in the finals, he 2-0'd both his opponents. I tell him not a chance, with how my games have been going. He says damn, his deck can beat me this time. My opponent doesn't get green mana (after inattentively Ash Barrensing for a 2nd Mountain.) and I run him over. Now that Ab is watching, and knowing he's gotten information about my deck before in round 1, and knowing I'll face him in the finals if I win, I start trying to play attention to which cards I cast this game, I end up winning the game off two Silent Departures, but let the game take a couple more turns to hide my Rally the Peasants from Ab. I also bluff a Force Spike, which Rw totally falls for, but which doesn't end up making a huge difference. Ab calls me the final boss.

Match 3 Me [2-1] Ab (Jund Value) Boss Fight
Game one he turns one Rakdos Cackler and I assume he's super aggresive. I then drop the slightly less aggresive Elusive Spellfist to save the Warkite Maraunder. Turns out I'm overthinking things. He doesn't get a 2nd land, and I turn 3 Mentor of the Meek and turn 4 and 5 Warkite+ draw. On turn 5 he gets his third land, which was an Evolving Wilds. He's at 21, and I swing with my entire team, making Rakdos Cackler a super 0/1, with a +1/+1 counter. He doesn't block, and I Rally the Peasants + flashback for 25. Game two he Stomrbinds my board of Stonecloaker, Seeker of the Way and Mentor of the Meek. I Market (Farm // Market) Dusk // Dawn to the bin, to get two guys back, and I've seen no targets for it, and slow rolling it vs Rw before just let him develop his board and the longer the game goes the less favoured I am. His Stormbind just does work. He then Mindwrack Demons and Azra Oddsmaker and I just die. I board out Dusk // Dawn and Stonecloaker which no longer feel like they should be in my deck, and board in Bonesplitter and Mardu Woe-Reaper. Game three was close. He gets down an early Wall of Blossoms, but lets an attack through, cause who knows what my deck does. I then drop a Warkite Marauder, and he gets a Flesh Carver. I get him down to 13 a bit fast, and he deals a bit to me. I kill the Flesh Carver with a combat trick, and his 4/4 Token ends up being a pain. I think it ends up trading and he Biting Rains when I'm tapped out, and I lose a big board, I think including Mentor of the Meek. My board is now a single Spellweaver Eternal with a Rally the Peasants in hand. He Mindwrack Demons and keeps a black up. I guess Ulcerate. He whiffs on the mill and ends up with only creatures and sorceries. Necropolis Fiend, Spider Spawning, Resilient Khenra, and Bloodghast are in his yard. I worry and play a creature. He goes to 9 from the Mindwrack Demon, swings me down to 8, and then Sever the Bloodlines it. I swing with the Spellweaver Eternal and the rando creature. He Ulcerates it (6) and blocks Spellweaver Eternal taking 2 (4) and killing it. He eternalizes Resilient Khenra and I cast Aven Wind Mage. He swings me down to 4 and casts a creature. I swing over with Aven Wind Mage and cast Rally the Peasants. Game Over.

The decks:
[2-0-1] Me:

WU Prowess

Creatures (12)
Elusive Spellfist
Warkite Marauder
Spellweaver Eternal
Seeker of the Way
Stonecloaker
Mentor of the Meek
Aven Wind Mage

Instants / Sorceries (11)
Silent Departure
Unsubstantiate
Miscalculation
Prepare // Fight
Farm // Market
Rally the Peasants
Lingering Souls
Dusk // Dawn

Lands (17)
Temple of Triumph
Temple of Epiphany
Temple of Silence
Island
Plains

(0)


[2-1] Rw:

Naya Value

Creatures (18)
Thraben Inspector
Suspicious Bookcase
Overgrown Battlement
Wall of Blossoms
Wall of Omens
Jeskai Barricade
Bygone Bishop
Aven Riftwatcher
Rage Nimbus
Axebane Guardian
Fleetfoot Panther
Archers of Qarsi
Vent Sentinel
Heart-Piercer Manticore
Havenwood Wurm

Artifacts / Enchantments (1)
Cast Out

Instants / Sorceries (4)
Blessed Alliance
Prepare // Fight
Leave // Chance

Lands (8)
Ash Barrens
Terramorphic Expanse
Temple of Plenty
Wind-Scarred Crag
Blossoming Sands
Boros Garrison
Selesnya Sanctuary
Gruul Turf

(0)


[2-1] Ah

WU Golems

Creatures (18)
Chronomaton
Perilous Myr
Kor Skyfisher
Whitemane Lion
Chief of the Foundry
Pegasus Courser
Geist of the Archive
Wing Splicer
Master Splicer
Hollow One
Crumbling Colossus
Epitaph Golem
Sensor Splicer
Razor Hippogriff
Mirror-Mad Phantasm
Draining Whelk
Meteor Golem
Colossus of Akros

Artifacts / Enchantments (2)
Pacification Array
Rusted Relic

Instants / Sorceries (3)
Feeling of Dread
Forsake the Worldly

Lands (3)
Tranquil Cove
Azorious Chancery
Boros Garrison

(0)


[2-1] Ab

Jund Midrange

Creatures (15)
Rakdos Cackler
Bloodsoaked Champion
Wall of Blossoms
Merfolk Branchwalker
Furyblade Vampire
Resilient Khenra
Bloodghast
Azra Oddsmaker
Flesh Carver
Varolz, the Scar-Striped
Falkenrath Noble
Mindwrack Demon
Krosan Tusker
Necropolis Fiend

Artifacts / Enchantments (1)
Stormbind

Instants / Sorceries (8)
Ulcerate
Firespout
Fires of Undeath
Ichor Slick
Sever the Bloodline
Biting Rain
Spider Spawning
Decree of Pain

Lands (6)
Evolving Wilds
Bloodfell Caves
Rugged Highlands
Jungle Hollow
Temple of Abandon
Golgari Rot Farm

(0)


[1-1-1] Sf

WB Lifegain

Creatures (8)
Duskhunter Bat
Zulaport Cutthroat
Ajani's Pridemate
Vizkopa Guildmage
Wall of Limbs
Yahenni, Undying Partisan
Master Splicer
Bloodbond Vampire

Artifacts / Enchantments (6)
Murderous Compulsion
Forsake the Worldly
Strangling Soot
Chastise
Black Sun's Zenith
Heroes Remembered

Instants / Sorceries (9)
Sun Droplet
Contagion Clasp
Sickleslicer
Oketra's Monument
Trading Post
Dragon Throne of Tarkir
Cast Out
Sanguine Bond
Contagion Engine

Lands (1)
Orzhov Basilica

(0)


[1-2] Mk

UG Midrange Value

Creatures (13)
Signal Pest
Wingcrafter
Procelain Legionnaire
Merfolk Branchwalker
Resilient Khenra
Splinterfright
Eternal Witness
Lodestone Golem
Vital Splicer
Whirler Rogue
Kessig Cagebreakers
Mnemonic Wall

Artifacts / Enchantments (1)
Grafted Wargear

Instants / Sorceries (10)
Force Spike
Miscalculation
Tracker's Instinct
Mouth // Feed
Dismiss
Careful Consideration
Spider Spawning
Confirm Suspicions

Lands (4)
Dread Statuary
Simic Growth Chamber
Dimir Aqueduct
Arch of Orazca

(0)


[1-2] Ss (60 Card deck)

Grixis Anti Mill

Creatures (19)
Monastery Swiftspear
Inventor's Apprentice
Bloodsoaked Champion
Blood Artist
Abbot of Keral Keep
Dismissive Pyromancer
Thermo-Alchemist
Stormchaser Mage
Quicksmith Genius
Laboratory Maniac
Bloodwater Entity
Flamewaker Phoenix
Big Game Hunter
Vulturous Aven
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
Mage-Ring Responder
Bedlam Reveler
Hangarback Walker

Artifacts / Enchantments (4)
Pacification Array
Key of the City
Burning Vengeance
Pyromancer's Goggles

Instants / Sorceries (14)
Force Spike
Ulcerate
Fire Bolt
Lightning Axe
Vicious Offering
Cathartic Reunion
Avacyn's Judgment
Recoup
Fiery Temper
Insult // Injury
Oona's Grace
Starstorm
Inferno Jet

Lands (6)
Geier Reach Sanctum
Temple of Malice
Siftwater Cliffs
Dismal Backwater
Rakdos Carnanium

(0)


[0-3] Cs
Creatures (11)
Mistblade Shinobi
Doorkeeper
Chief of the Foundry
Bonded Fetch
Crocanura
Junk Troller
Solemn Simulacrum
Vital Splicer
jungle Barrier
Maul Splicer
Guardian of the Ages

Artifacts / Enchantments (7)
Warmoger's Chariot
Ongoing Investigation
Pristine Talisman
Titan Forge
Moldervine Cloak
Boompile
Rusted Relic

Instants / Sorceries (8)
Savage Punch
Nature's Spiral
Gnaw to the Bone
Forbidden Alchemy
Break Asunder
Evacuation
Spitting Image

Lands (6)
Blasted Landscape
Inventor's Fair
Temple of Malady
Thornwood Falls
Simic Growth Chamber
Golgari Rot Farm

(0)


Cool things I heard about:
Sf got the Sanguine Bond, Heroes Remembered insta-kill off vs Cs. Rw beat Ah with a Suspicious Bookcase sneaking in a Havenwood Wurm + Heart-Piercer Manticore the turn before she would win. Sf turn 1 Heroes Remembered and turn 5 Sanguined Bonded, right before dying to Ah.

Number of decks in each colors:
W 4
U 5
B 3
R 3
G 4

Glade Watcher -> Qarsi Archers
Glade Watcher worried me a bit with its 3/3 body. I felt like it would be too good vs aggresive decks. I figured that I'd want defenders to fit in two major groups. Low power, High toughness defenders are good vs early aggression decks, but don't stifle them completely, as they don't lose their creatures. On the opposite spectrum, high power, low toughness walls can trade way above their cost, but don't do well vs cheap aggro swarms. Two 3/3 wall completely wreck two 2/2s and a 2/3, where as two 5/1 walls or two 1/5 allow for better gameplay imo. This lets the walls slow down, without killing aggro, and lets agro chose if they want to risk losing their best creature, or if they want to slow down. Qarsi Archers fits well imo, even if its bad.

Carven Caryatid -> Wall of Omens
As above, Carven Caryatid seemed to stifle agro a bit too much. Wall of Omens might be a better card, but can be played around much more.

Jeskai Student -> Seeker of the Way #3
Jeskai Student seemed too weak, and didn't promote aggression, which is something white is missing (too many anti-tempo card, like the ones that bounce on EtB). Seeker of the Way just seems to be the best prowess card available to white at that CMC. Having a third copy feels a bit bad, I'm heading towards constructed, but I also didn't like that I was thinking of "number of cards" as something to considered. So decided to add a third copy, so "Two cards max" doesn't end up being the new singleton for me.

Monastery Mentor -> Pegasus Courser
Speaking of Prowess, Monastery Mentor didn't really felt like it fit. It seems like it promises to be too strong while also underperforming. It isn't only used by prowess, these prowess decks don't have the same density of spells as constructed ones, so it ends up being a slightly more expensive Seeker of the Way that makes a 1/1. My ideal prowess creature in white would be a 2/3 for 2W or something. Pegasus Courser I've wanted to add for a bit and didn't fint a slot yet.

Dragscape Zombie -> Blood Artist #2
Dragscape Zombie never saw play, and some wanted Blood Artist back. Easy.

Augury Owl -> Elusive Spellfist
The recent push towards aggressive made me realise the Augury Owl did way less in virtually any deck. A slow deck doesn't care about the scry as much as the 1/3 body in this case, and the 1/1 flying body is deceptively bad. Elusive Spellfist was tried out and I'm happy with it. It is maybe slightly worse in Ninjas, which isn't really a full deck, but better in everything else. I believe.

Frontier Mastodon -> Resilient Khenra #2
See a few posts above. No one played the Frontier Mastodon, and the Resilient Khenra was well liked.

Renegade Krasis -> Mouth // Feed #2
Renegade Krasis was often a trap, and I've never seen it do well. Mouth // Feed has a good body, and the aftermath works well with quite a few things.

Bludgeon Brawl -> Sarkhan's Unsealing
Bludgeon Brawl was cool and all. However Sarkhan's Unsealing is really cool, keys off power and with the Glade Watcher -> Qarsi Archers change, every RG defender that has low toughness triggers it. I think this could be really cool. Also, only golems trigger the 7+ trigger. Fun fact.

Cloudblazer-> Feeling of Dread
There is already enough value. Feeling of Dread helps decks that worry about tempo, I like this.

Condemn -> Heroes Remembered
Placeholder. Condemn I'm getting rid of, but my Ramosian Rally is in the mail.

EDIT:

Uhh and Evacuation -> Unsubstatiate #2
Evacuation did nothing that you'd want it to. The format is too creature centric for it to herm your opponent more than you, and there are some decent EtB effects. Blue is now even more aggressive/tempo oriented. I'm starting to wonder if I'm being lazy in the amount of duplication. Might need a fix.
 
Hi,

We drafted yesterday morning. I think it was the 2nd time since that one time in August right above. Life has been getting in the way and everything that comes with it. I quite like magic still and limited has become the base of the majority of the magic content I consume. I listened to a lot of the Limited Resources and the Lords of Limited podcast. I meant to work on magic over the holidays, but real life again. I did, however, think of magic enough to set up a cube draft. Before doing so, I took a look at my list and was quite unhappy with it. I've described it as how you'd feel a year after playing when you look at the third deck you've made. It looks really bad, but that means that you now "know better", even if you were really happy with it at the time. So I have high hopes for the next 1 or 2. Unfortunately, real life, and I won't be able to make one until maybe this summer (hopefully) or fall. But I've got a lot of ideas :)

I also noticed that all the consumed limited content has changed what I... expect of my/a cube? I want it to be more like a retail limited set, which means my next ones might be a bit in between. I'm worried it might turn into some describe as "core set" cubes, but I'd find it worth it to find out.

As for the cube draft yesterday, uhh, well first, I've made some minor updates to my list, back after our last cube in August / September, and this week, in preparation for the draft. Unfortunately, I didn't update the cube back in September and so I am just not sure what the changes are. Last time I think I was trying to remove some of the higher power level cards.

I just scrolled up. Those were the changes, I think, I just didn't update Cubetutor.

Ok, well here's what I did:
->
->
->

Savage Punch is a bit too cute, and felt like it was trying very hard to make it work with powers matter in G. Aggressive Instinct does that, but doesn't have the weird feels bad where you'd want to use the card on your Qarsi Archers since they can't attack after. It's also why I didn't put in Nature's Way. Ongoing Investigation just never did anything, fit with anything. It seems like a cool card, but doesn't have support. River Hoopoe is just good, and fits as a placeholder for now. Artful Take, although I don't like general removal in the gold section, felt like it might help the ninjas a bit, or UB weird control that seems to need help. Mystical Teachings and Wydween rarely did anything.

As for the draft, I think this was the time where I had the lowest average player experience/skill. There was a lot of fun stuff going on though, I played BR Madness Aggro. I went 2-1, with a really close loss in 3 vs RG Stormbind Defenders, I ended up getting stuck and getting killed over 4 turns by Mage-Ring Responder while having a Murderous Compulsion in hand. We had a laugh at that. Two people had never cubed before and I think only two of us had cube my cube more than twice before that day. People enjoyed it, I promised to host more, and the cube didn't actually play as badly as I felt while looking at the list.

There are a lot of things I'd like to change though, not sure how much effort to put in atm though.

I'm still alive, I still read the forums, even if I rarely post.
 
Top