Duuuude, lighten up. No one's out to "get" you. I've said this before, but as a frequent forum-goer, you really need to develop a thicker skin.
Card/Deck Black Sheep
- Thread starter CML
- Start date
Never change, Lukas.
edit: and don't listen to me either.
edit: and don't listen to me either.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Never change, nor stay the same?
Haha jk
Abolish
Blind Obedience
Blood-Chin Rager
Pyrewild Shaman
Foe-Razer Regent
Consuming Aberration
Torrent of Souls
Rix Maadi Guildmage
Savageborn Hydra
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
Underworld Coinsmith
Some notes on these:
-Abolish is a free Disenchant and sets up Titania or KOTR in a Selesnya Loam deck
-Blind Obedience might look like a bad Imposing Sovereign but consider this: in control it stops haste and gains you life while making your mana usage more efficient
-Blood-Chin Rager only needs 1 other Warrior to be a good tribal card, and also, you should read the type lines in your W and B sections
-Pyrewild Shaman says hello, double strike/trample decks
-Foe-Razer Regent is a good "fair" ramp target on its own (compare to Hornet Queen) and gets better with Prey Upon, Master of the Wild Hunt, etc. for a fun mini-archetype
-One of my drafters cried and moaned until I put Aberration in and then I realized it breaks board stalls like a boss by providing a secondary clock in UB control/midrange
-Try Torrent as a curve-topper in any deck that goes wide, just try it man
-Rix Maadi Guildmage gives zero shits about enemy blockers and lets you rage hard without overcommitting to the board
-I put Savageborn Hydra in because I wanted to try Clan Defiance but didn't own a copy. It's the deadliest mana sink like ever; also, try hydra tribal with Kalonian Hydra lol
-Ruric Thar is the actual RG titan and haha WOW does he punch blue mages in the face. Nice Cryptic, NERD *wham*
-If you like Humans, Enchantments, Ajani's Pridemate, Extort, or WB aggro... Coinsmith deliver to ya. The mana sink is more threatening than it looks, too.
Lots of good suggestions there.
I can vouch for Blind Obedience. The life gain and life loss add up. It's actually really nasty in multi-player and that is one of the biggest reasons it remains in my list. It's a tad borderline 1v1 though.
Foe-Razor Regent has played pretty well. I'm not sure I like it better than other options, but I have a sweet promo foil and it's a dragon so in it stays for now.
Blood-Chin Rager is good. I dig the warrior tribal theme too because it nicely overlaps with guys you are playing (or have considered playing) anyway. Cloudgoat Ranger, Zealous Conscripts, Fleshbag Marauder, and many more.
Torrent of Souls is a bit inconsistent, but when it's on that card if vicious. I agree with blacksmithy that the card is great as a curve topper for aggressive decks that go wide. Works wonderfully well in sacrifice builds in particular.
I can vouch for Blind Obedience. The life gain and life loss add up. It's actually really nasty in multi-player and that is one of the biggest reasons it remains in my list. It's a tad borderline 1v1 though.
Foe-Razor Regent has played pretty well. I'm not sure I like it better than other options, but I have a sweet promo foil and it's a dragon so in it stays for now.
Blood-Chin Rager is good. I dig the warrior tribal theme too because it nicely overlaps with guys you are playing (or have considered playing) anyway. Cloudgoat Ranger, Zealous Conscripts, Fleshbag Marauder, and many more.
Torrent of Souls is a bit inconsistent, but when it's on that card if vicious. I agree with blacksmithy that the card is great as a curve topper for aggressive decks that go wide. Works wonderfully well in sacrifice builds in particular.
Man Zealous Conscripts might be the perfect red creature, but I can never find space for Fleshbag Marauder. I dig the new art for it though, so maybe it's time to look for a spot again. Black 3-drops are so tight!
I am glad I have your confidence James, and your understanding that I don't respond well to demands lol. I feel like I understand what girls mean when they talk about being a free spirit etc.
Like, I dunno what you mean by thicker skin, but I don't really feel angry or hurt by grillos loosely throwing my very own suggestion in my face as a way of gainsaying my criticism of the hate spell, I was just sorta acknowledging that he did and the weakness of the position.
Omg I didn't even think of cost reducers plus AEther Mutation! You guys were really high on podding gurmag, what about mutating the lil sucker? It's not something to build your deck around but it's certainly a neat upside!
If we are talking about that shaky extort enchantment you might wana check out syndic of tithes! It was in my sb in my most recent noob cube rout and it came in a tonne. I feel like it needs a little help to really play with the big boys but you guys run cubes that aren't far off from the noob cubes power level and the reach was really sweet. Doubling down on lingering souls or playing a draw spell with extort really go a long way to slowly pulling you back from a losing position.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Syndic of Tithes is good. When I suggest it, people tell me its too mana intensive, it needs a combat keyword, etc., but the card just keeps contributing and not just in the pridemate decks.
Not really a Black Sheep, but Defiant Strike has been overlooked by many people here imo. I've gone up to two in my cube and it's been pretty sweet. At worst, it cycles itself. At best? It creates some stupid fun Prowess shenanigans. Curving Seeker of the Way into Jhessian Thief. Defiant Strike in hand. What does your opponent do? So many blowout opportunities. Perfect now with Prowess evergreen and with us bound to get 1-2 good Prowess creatures every set. If you guys are hurting for combat tricks and support Prowess, I'd definitely give it a try.
I ran Syndic of Tithes for a bit. It's close but not quite there for me, but my environment is fairly powerful.
imo Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Shardless Agent are the only "staple" Simic cards, though Prime Speaker Zegana, Coiling Oracle, Mystic Snake, Prophet of Kruphix, Horizon Chimera, Trygon Predator?? are all fine. It's a section I will probably trim to the bare minimum, my drafters don't really need any incentives to force UG as is and there isn't really a huge list of good Simic cards to choose from.
A few months ago my contribution to this thread would be Gurmag Angler but people caught on to that card now so I dunno. Cards that I cut as I upgraded my cube from "stack of rares that were donated to me" but stuck out before then:
imo Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Shardless Agent are the only "staple" Simic cards, though Prime Speaker Zegana, Coiling Oracle, Mystic Snake, Prophet of Kruphix, Horizon Chimera, Trygon Predator?? are all fine. It's a section I will probably trim to the bare minimum, my drafters don't really need any incentives to force UG as is and there isn't really a huge list of good Simic cards to choose from.
A few months ago my contribution to this thread would be Gurmag Angler but people caught on to that card now so I dunno. Cards that I cut as I upgraded my cube from "stack of rares that were donated to me" but stuck out before then:
I run Wydwen, she's very good.I ran Syndic of Tithes for a bit. It's close but not quite there for me, but my environment is fairly powerful.
imo Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Shardless Agent are the only "staple" Simic cards, though Prime Speaker Zegana, Coiling Oracle, Mystic Snake, Prophet of Kruphix, Horizon Chimera, Trygon Predator?? are all fine. It's a section I will probably trim to the bare minimum, my drafters don't really need any incentives to force UG as is and there isn't really a huge list of good Simic cards to choose from.
A few months ago my contribution to this thread would be Gurmag Angler but people caught on to that card now so I dunno. Cards that I cut as I upgraded my cube from "stack of rares that were donated to me" but stuck out before then:
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Supports heroic, can be used out of the graveyard and has Guay art. That checks every box for me, but the effect is just isn't there. I remember one day we were talking about test of faith and someone said they didn't like it because it was kinda of a fuck you red card. Clearly its more broad then that, but yeah, preventing damage just isn't that attractive most of the time.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Its because my response was a super nice way to try to turn the other cheek and end the discussion. Look at your original response: its rude and phrased in an elitest manner. There was no real way I could respond that wouldn't result in me basically saying "hey lucre maybe you should read the rest of the card: its instant speed and costs 0 in the right matchup. What are you talking about." Not only does no one want to read those kinds of exchanges, since they revolve around basic reading comprehension rather than magic, its by its nature a personal attack on you.
You may not believe this, but I enjoy your posts usually, and don't want to make you feel bad by making responses that seem to attack your basic intelligence. The only result of that would be you posting less, which would make the forum worse
My response was attempting to take the adversal nature out of the exhange, by reminding you that the thread was about posting less than top shelf cards, you had posted a less than top shelf card a moment ago, and we should just let things go. Evidently, I failed in getting that across to you, though I suspect some posters understood my intent, which is why ahaba liked the post: not because anyone viewed you as being "got". On most forums you would have been quickly flamed for that type of asinine response, and here you are getting offended at my gentle rebuke. Hence the thin skin.
For the record, I will not engage in a discussion with you about submerge, because I have already gotten opinions from people that have actually ran it, that it is too powerful and generally unfun. However, I want to make sure you understand that I have nothing against you as a person, that i like your posts, and am not trying to personally attack you when I post. I hope that you are not reading that type of negativity into my responses, that we can chalk this up to a misundetstanding, and move forward.
I already feel bad for even posting this, but I feel its important you understand that i'm not trying to 'gainsay' anything or am trying to argue with you,so we can avoid these negative exchanges in the future.
I love Slave of Bolas too! It was in my cube for a while but... Sadly my drafters just weren't interested. Grixis typically gets built in ways that don't work well with it. Maybe at 4 mana? Maybe...
fuck I always forget edric that guy is the best. I can't say as I am as far in the agent camp though, it requires a really specific sort of deck to do anything interesting to me.
I guess I'm the only person who still likes mystic snake. I think it's because it's reusable and I love repeated effect tricks in mainly highlander formats.
EDIT:
I guess I'm the only person who still likes mystic snake. I think it's because it's reusable and I love repeated effect tricks in mainly highlander formats.
EDIT:
You win this round grillo.
I kind of hate all Dimir cards other than Baleful Strix and Dragonlord Silumgar at this point - yeah, I kind of even hate Forbidden Alchemy - so I think I'll give Wydwen a shot. I remember the hype around the time she was spoiled, though the faeries deck ended up not needing more four drops, and I think I recall 5cc using her instead (!). Bonus points for her being from Lorwyn!
On Dimir: Oona, Queen of the Fae is honestly my fave. I threw her in because I think she's so rad-looking but I never really wanted to maindeck her even though I picked her - she just felt too expensive. Well, when I eventually gave her a real shot, in an Esper Control-Mill deck, I was blown away by how powerful she is. She hits hard from the sky and can spew tokens everywhere if she happens to be targeted with removal that you can't deal with, which seems like a great deal to me. I typically plan for such fatty strategies by picking Lightning Greaves and/or Kira, Great Glass-Spinner super highly, so she doesn't just eat removal and crash instantly. I also love that she supports mill, which is a Real Thing in my cube that doesn't feel poisonous. Wydwen hasn't seen much love yet, unfortunately, and is on my watch list, but I'm committed to forcing her real soon and seeing if she's the sort of flexible finisher I want to trouble with in UB. As for Forbidden Alchemy, it literally has not been played yet, but I have greater hopes since I've beefed up reanimator a bit and added in Laboratory Maniac. I'm interested in Dragonlord Silumgar, but I don't see him coming in until I'm sure Wydwen isn't cutting it.
Simic: I love Kiora, Crashing the Rave and think she's really undervalued. I also love Simic Sky Swallower but that's mostly because the art is so cute. I have high hopes for Bounding Krasis, but we'll seeee
edit: and I don't run Edric because he's so ugly, but maybe one day I'll get an alter.
Simic: I love Kiora, Crashing the Rave and think she's really undervalued. I also love Simic Sky Swallower but that's mostly because the art is so cute. I have high hopes for Bounding Krasis, but we'll seeee
edit: and I don't run Edric because he's so ugly, but maybe one day I'll get an alter.
I wasn't entirely sure on the targeting restriction, thanks for clarifying. The effect itself is quite bad; I can't imagine it being good in most environments, unless a card that says "TARGET ALL THE THINGS" + flashback is good. It's also fairly unintuitive, so I don't think you'd want to run it unless you have a fairly experienced playgroup (which I don't).
Dom Harvey
Contributor
In every similar argument I've seen here it's always been Lucas who escalates it unnecessarily, which could be avoided if you just stated your points clearly.
I echo MC's thoughts about Wydwen.
I echo MC's thoughts about Wydwen.
Yeah, true, I forgot about Oona, Queen of the Fae. She's fine, but I honestly forgot about her, despite having run her in my list for about three years, because she's just another Pedestrian Finisher. Sure, she's efficient at her job, and closes out games right quick, assuming you have any mana to spare, but nowadays I feel like Aetherling fills those shoes even better. She supports mill in the same way that Nemesis of Reason does - that is to say, she's a standalone win condition, without any other mill cards in your deck. Even after having written so many words about her just now, though, I don't feel she's any more interesting than any other tap-out Generic Six Drop in those colours, though I wouldn't begrudge anyone for running her, as I did for a long time. Since I've made the swap, though, Dragonlord Silumgar has been a lot more fun in that role.
This kind of ties into a feeling I've had over the last little while: I love multicolour decks - most of the decks that have done well are three colours or more here - but I'm starting to hate most of the multicolour cards. They rarely support the themes and archetypes I'm trying to push in those colours; efficient low drop creatures are just objectively worse draft picks than their monocolour cousins nearly all of the time; the strongest gold cards are increasingly of the Value Good Stuff variety; many of the planeswalker designs are niche or just uninteresting; as good as you make the mana in your cube (54 duals in 370 cards here), two-colour gold cards still wheel forever. I love casting an Edric or Geist of Saint Traft as much as the next guy, but truly unique gold cards like that are too few and far between.
Maybe I'm just becoming a grumpy old curmudgeon, but I'm now of the philosophy that most cubes could benefit from running fewer multicolour cards, even - and maybe especially - the cubes that want to encourage multicolour decks.
This kind of ties into a feeling I've had over the last little while: I love multicolour decks - most of the decks that have done well are three colours or more here - but I'm starting to hate most of the multicolour cards. They rarely support the themes and archetypes I'm trying to push in those colours; efficient low drop creatures are just objectively worse draft picks than their monocolour cousins nearly all of the time; the strongest gold cards are increasingly of the Value Good Stuff variety; many of the planeswalker designs are niche or just uninteresting; as good as you make the mana in your cube (54 duals in 370 cards here), two-colour gold cards still wheel forever. I love casting an Edric or Geist of Saint Traft as much as the next guy, but truly unique gold cards like that are too few and far between.
Maybe I'm just becoming a grumpy old curmudgeon, but I'm now of the philosophy that most cubes could benefit from running fewer multicolour cards, even - and maybe especially - the cubes that want to encourage multicolour decks.
Yeah, as Lucas notes, Niveous Wisps is a less narrow white instant one-drop cantrip that fills much the same role, but can be employed by all manner of decks - tempo, control, and everything in between. I take zero credit for this one, though - I think it was Laz who came up with this tech!
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Man, you know whats way cooler than preventing damage?