I wonder what the player psychology behind "fuck you" spells is.
Card/Deck Bonfire of the Damned
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
I can see how if you have mastery that you will prioritise brainstorm, preordain and ponder higher but how does it reward player skill?
I'm not sure, but I'd say it really depends on how the "fuck you" manifests. Some things rub people the wrong way. Other things (at least in my group) are somewhat celebrated. The difference at least with my group is whether the "fuck you" moment was crafted or it was lucksacked and/or the result of a stupid card. That line can blur sometimes, but cards generally fall on one side or the other over time.
Unfortunately for Bonfire, it is winding up more in that second category with my group. Kind of like where Mind Twist is (a card I'll never run in my list for this very reason).
Unfortunately for Bonfire, it is winding up more in that second category with my group. Kind of like where Mind Twist is (a card I'll never run in my list for this very reason).
I gotta say, I love me a good called shot topdeck, or a really devastating play that just knocks your opponent on their ass. Like, when you do something that leads to high fives and even your opponent is in awe. 1 player wins each game, how can we make sure it's done in the most satisfying ways?
On the other hand some dominating plays are really dumb. Oh, you played a non-interactive win the game combo against my aggro deck? Gee, fun.
On the other hand some dominating plays are really dumb. Oh, you played a non-interactive win the game combo against my aggro deck? Gee, fun.
I suppose it doesn't take a huge amount of skill to position the card to get the miracle effect, but it does require skill to maximize how often that happens in your deck by picking cards like top, brainstorm, etc (while still keeping your deck from being a combo durdly mess). There's a balance you have to strike sometimes. How much do you dilute your deck with those types of effects just to maximize your changes at miracle? It isn't cut and dry IMO and it takes skill to navigate. Not every deck I run wants top for instance. Maybe my stategy makes it not even worth running Temporal Mastery at all.
Temporal Mastery isn't something that is universally worth a slot in every Ux deck is my point, so it's a skill testing card IMO.
Me too. But I find those high five moments come when it involves some type of synergistic play instead of some really powerful card that is a broken play all by itself.
Like the other day, my buddy was running some green ramp deck and he was playing a WW deck with stoneforge and some broken equipment (at least one sword and jitte). The WW guy had jitte on the board and was doing bad things with it (as only Jitte can do). My buddy had blown his Viridian Shaman on a sword earlier (and it was in his graveyard). He used Bow of Nylea to put it back on the botton of his library so that he could sac one of his other creatures to natural order to get the shaman back in play to destroy the Jitte. It was that play that saved the game for him and no one saw it coming until he did it. It was awesome.
It was a shot in the gut to the WW guy when it happened, but it didn't feel dirty like a top deck Bonfire does.
Anyway, that sort of stuff is why I cube honestly and it's what motivates my design philosophy.
Yeah, I agree with this sentiment. Re: your earlier comment, we actually had a huge discussion about raw power finishers when we started this community. I think everyone involved took Wurmcoil out of their cubes, but I know in mine aggro is so powerful that Baneslayer and Grave Titan are both totally needed and beatable. Either way, I think it's good that we're asking the questions in the first place.
As my cube is slower than most, Wurmcoil and the Titans were just really oppressive. Even Baneslayer is out right now because the life gain swing can be insurmountable. I made the decision a long time ago while I was testing early versions of my cube to really restrict some of the finisher power (I don't even run walkers but that's a different discussion all together).
Now, that's not the only way to approach it of course. As you said, having a really strong aggro presence will accomplish the same goal. I do think it's healthy to ask these questions though, and the right choice is usually group dependent as well. My group likes playing durdly decks, so cards like Wurmcoil end up dominating more than they should. I choose to fix that by excluding a lot of those types of cards versus trying to get guys to like aggro more. Path of least resistance I suppose.
Yup. Agreed. I don't mind a few boring cards here and there for those that like to draft pure value dudes. But Baneslayer annoys me because of it's so retardedly under priced (and especially because of the lifelink and what that can do to games).
I just added Archangel of Thune though and I feel (hope) any oppressive life gain it ushers will be worked for and less dirty.
On this note everyone in my LGS yells "BONFIRE OFF THE TOP!" when they have some game-winning or board-sweeping card they could draw. And it's pretty much never bonfire anymore.
But seriously, it's probably just a salient focal point to attribute their loss to. It doesn't require incremental advantages, and you can readily attribute a large portion of the loss to one single factor.
At the end of every term my uni has an end of term draft, where we draft two-headed giant and drink. For a couple years we had a custom set as the last pack, and many of the cards were designed with drinking as a mechanic. Cards could have drinking as part of costs, or do something special if you drank this turn (counting only drinking as a game action). For example we had shot-lands which come into play untapped if you drink. I remember playing against a team who assembled an infinite combo of some sort, but they had to drink loads to pull it off. Like, to kill us the guy need to drink as many shots as we had life. He couldn't do it and we won that game.
We've got a printed out set of the Booze Cube (except for Peer Pressure, because we play with respawn rules, and one guy played it straight out of the bubble for 19 when noone could match). It's a ton of fun.
Also, I still maintain that Necropotent is the perfect black magic card - over it's legitimate brother and Bob.
Huh, so this used to be about Bonfire, eh?
Also, I still maintain that Necropotent is the perfect black magic card - over it's legitimate brother and Bob.
Huh, so this used to be about Bonfire, eh?
Nothing creates the feel bads quite like miracled Bonfire. Being on the receiving end of a miracled Bonfire makes me just want to stop playing the rest of that draft. I'm all for blowout plays but ones that require setting up/careful maneuvering. Not just "oops I guess all your things are dead"
I think the Miracle-Standard season is still too recent to be suffering through bonfires again in cube (and despite cube being perfect for Thragtusk that's also a bit too on-the-nerves). I added it for a bit but when I saw someone's face after bonfiring them I replaced it with banefire (alongside Devil's Play) which are worsem in a lot of situations, but bonfire isn't even that good when most decks arent weenie and plenty arent heavily into creatures.
This is weird, but.. has anyone else come around on the miracle mechanic? I was ambivalent about it for the first year or so, but having seen my playgroup wholeheartedly embrace miracles like a long lost brother, I've come around. They make for memorable, splashy moments, and reward you for finding ways to manipulate your library and hand.
I'm now running all the miracles here, and I'm wondering if I should be going deeper with the more marginal ones.
I'm now running all the miracles here, and I'm wondering if I should be going deeper with the more marginal ones.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Revenge is really sweet if you have a way to set it up - it's a one-sided Terminus most of the time.
How does Bonfire (and Miracles in general I guess) work on Cockatrice? Honor system?
Entreat the Angels is actually pretty mediocre. Don't tell my playerbase I said that, though.
I think Entreat would actually be OP in my cube. It kind of was before, and now there are more Brainstorms.