General Boros has a really, really boring theme. Alternatives?

[spicewitch]

When we print proxies, we have the option to retheme these terrible things so hit me up with some ideas!

Right now, Boros is "martial/military", usually but not always with a splash of "goodguy". There's not a lot to be juiced from this, thematically. Martial Skill, Martial Might, Martial uh Healing... yes Healing... Because We Say So.

What are some other thematic ways Boros could have gone? White has rebels and red has Anarchist; maybe a "vanguard of the revolution" theme could be employed - hope, freedom, the dissolution of borders and states, arming the peasantry, and of course the utter demise of those corrupt Orzhov/Azorius types.

Red has a strong tie to myths and RPGs that feature Elementalists, while White rarely has any sort of mystical flavor beyond the one-note idea of Holy magic. However, combining those things you come up with something similar to Yamabushi, ascetics who are in tune with both the elements of the natural world as well as human bodies and souls. Shepherds of both elementals and men.

What are your thoughts on the matter of non-boring Boros themes?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I don't find the Boros theme particularly boring. It's pretty stock, sure, but... so what? The black zombie theme is even more cliché, but I don't hear anyone complaining about that.

 

[spicewitch]

Sure, but zombies doesn't eat up a whole color pair. Anytime WotC makes a card, they go "I dunno, make it military-themed" and don't think much further. Maybe it's an angel of vengeance if you're very lucky. has more to it than "I dunno, give it a thematic tie to zombies".

(We need an Angel that's Red... I know, add Battle to her name! None of the pure angels do battle, no, they're probably just peaceniks or something. Okay, Battle Seraph! Ship it!)

This might simply be a symptom of WotC's trend towards "make it a guy with a sword!", even when cards that used to serve a similar function (in this case, land search) were once more esoteric.

 

[James Stevenson]

Moved from General Discussion (*salutes*)

I do kind of agree, BB Hume. I can't think of anything else, though.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Sure, but zombies doesn't eat up a whole color pair. Anytime WotC makes a card, they go "I dunno, make it military-themed" and don't think much further. Maybe it's an angel of vengeance if you're very lucky. has more to it than "I dunno, give it a thematic tie to zombies".

I don't think they go 'I dunno', I think they go 'there's a military organisation in this world, and we have a gold theme. You know what color pair fits really, really well with this military theme? Yeah, , that's right!'

Also, there hasn't been that many pairing in recent history. Of the top of my head:

• Lorwyn (and Modern Masters) had giants, not military-themed
• Alara - was part of Naya here, jungle-themed, not military-themed
• Ravnica & Return to Ravnica - Boros was definitely military-themed
• Theros - Akroas was definitely military-themed, 'THIS IS SPARTA!'-themed to be precise
  
• Tarkir 1/2 - was part of the Mardu horde - warrior-themed (not really military, but you get the same effects)
• Tarkir 2/2 - was also part of the Jeskai - monk/ascetic-themed (definitely not military)

So... I don't even think it's as bad as you make it out to be, it's just that white and red overlap in a very specific area (weenies), so the actual mechanics will look alike across cards. Thematically however, I count only 2.5 military-themed organisations out of, what, 5?

 

[anotak]

well there's this sweet standard deck recently

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Boros is a great artifact color combination...which means an excuse to run splicers! I really like that flavor because it mixes nicely red's forge themes with white's life creation themes.

Its also a strong humans tribal combination that bleeds into angels.

 

[kevthewalker]

RW should be the home of dwarves.

 

[Lucre]

The hussar steppe people thing we got from khans mardu is a lil more interesting. Reminds me of how Robert E Howard's Conan describes the kozaki. Not true barbarians, but sons of civilization with the gates shut to them, eschewing the laws of others and keeping their own rule.

Boros seem like the most passionate combination, devoted to martial success over their of their colour's other themes and headstrong in the pursuit of "righteousness". They are not as discriminatory as white usually is, making a framework that rewards violent and predatory, usually antisocial races like goblins and minotaurs to succeed and contribute and find community, where red usually has less of a structured framework for uplifting.

What are some RW themes that don't strictly resemble a idealized mercenary company that you could pair to effect? I like RW's synergy with religion. RW might also be one of the most persuasive forces in the magic universe with it's appeal to emotion, righteousness, artistry, moralizing and ability to prey on associations. A cool UW analysis or the subtle and disquieting ministrations of UB might not even be as compelling. Of course green has never understood very well how to explain itself to others.

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

Of course green has never understood very well how to explain itself to others.

You'd have to speak their language! But I like the idea of letting boros showcasing this passionate quality outside of a bunch of really really enthusiastic army men. Maybe we can make "martial artists" literal? The brush of conquerors! A chisel of righteousness! Ours is the lyre that will pierce the heavens!

 

[Jason Waddell]

I don't know if it helps, but when I think RW I think "hidden insecurities".

 

[Chris Taylor]

Surrak only Friends are bears. Surrak Punch many bear. Surrak punch all friends.

Surrak Tragic Figure

Am I speaking the language yet?

 

[spicewitch]

well there's this sweet standard deck recently

GOLEMS THE INCIDENTAL ACCIDENTAL ECUMENICAL TRIBAL
Its also a strong humans tribal combination that bleeds into angels.

Yes, Red and White individually have fine, wonderful-lovely-great single cards that aren't boring. Cards that are don't veer far from The Iron Lord's Style Guide of Iron, Style, and Lords.

• Lorwyn (and Modern Masters) had giants, not military-themed
• Alara - was part of Naya here, jungle-themed, not military-themed
• Ravnica & Return to Ravnica - Boros was definitely military-themed
• Theros - Akroas was definitely military-themed, 'THIS IS SPARTA!'-themed to be precise
• Tarkir 1/2 - was part of the Mardu horde - warrior-themed (not really military, but you get the same effects)
• Tarkir 2/2 - was also part of the Jeskai - monk/ascetic-themed (definitely not military)

Lorwyn was a huge breath of fresh air, which of course means it had to be followed by TEN YEARS MISERY. Alara - dunno, it's old. And tricolor, so harder to pigeonhole. Rav/Theros adhere rigidly to the Law of Style Guide. The mardu horde is absolutely military, imo. It's a mobile pillaging cavalry - while that makes it very different from a slow-moving or stationary phalanx, it's not nonmilitary. Splashing black into it gave the theme some needed spice, though.

The monks are very sweet. I feel like that's got more to do with Jeskai being blue-centered than with them being a departure from standard RW, but who knows. Maybe in upcoming sets WotC will lay off of the abysmal card names and we'll see more like this.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I still don't see why being military is bad though. It is the natural fit for this color combination, and I've enjoyed the subtle variations in flavor between sets. To describe the years since Lorwyn as ten years of misery is quite unfair when it's not really ten years, but more like a handful of sets, two of which are on the same plane where of course the color combinations are going to have the same overarching feel. To each his own I suppose?

 

[spicewitch]

Moved from General Discussion (*salutes*)

Incidentally, I posted this in General because it's more of an "MTG General" than a cube-specific discussion.

I feel like Cube Talk could withstand being split off into at least one other thing; it's such a catch-all, here. Discerning users use What's New anyways!

 

[Chris Taylor]

Incidentally, I posted this in General because it's more of an "MTG General" than a cube-specific discussion.

I feel like Cube Talk could withstand being split off into at least one other thing; it's such a catch-all, here. Discerning users use What's New anyways!

I just view everything

 

[Eric Chan]

Discerning users use What's New anyways!

...apparently i haven't been a discerning user all these years, and was clicking on every individual forum to get to new threads. to think there was a better way all along..!

okay someday someone should sit down and explain to me how this forum software works

 

[Jason Waddell]

Yeah, I didn't know we had a "What's New" page either.

 

[Chris Taylor]

...apparently i haven't been a discerning user all these years, and was clicking on every individual forum to get to new threads. to think there was a better way all along..!

okay someday someone should sit down and explain to me how this forum software works

So, should we make james the webmaster, or...

 

[James Stevenson]

I didn't know either!

Anyway I guess I wrongly moved bumbeh's post, so I should resign or abdicate or something.

 

[Eric Chan]

as with most problems of this nature, i think it's best solved with a 30 man over-the-top-rope royal rumble, last man standing takes all

 

[James Stevenson]

I just finished reading The Hundred Year Old Man Who Climbed Out of his Window and Disappeared (and it was great), and it has inclined me to think that all problems can be solved by sitting down and drinking together.

 

[James Stevenson]

So bumbeh, let's get drunk

 

[Chris Taylor]

So bumbeh, let's get drunk

Hear Hear!
Damnit I'm at work

 

[Lucre]

actually now that I think about it, royalty and nobility are great themes for RW. A court would be a great stage for a set and a lovely place to showcase a lil depth for RW.