Brad Loves Eldrazi
- Thread starter Brad
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Search used:
Let me know if that could have caused me to miss anything.
For example, it doesn't have Abiding Grace!
Second search added:
Cards considered:
Can't Stay Away feels pretty weak for a two colored card. Generating one mana of value and having an expensive flashback isn't super appealing.
Kellan, Daring Traveler, Return Triumphant excluded for producing a token type that I don't run.
Lurrus OP.
Ranger-Captain of Eos seems too strong? The base body is nice and it could get Giver of Runes for any white deck.
Gruesome Menagerie seems too expensive.
Inscription of Ruin discarding an Eldrazi is unfun.
Other notable exclusions are anything that can do true reanimation, as that could cheat out a big Eldrazi.
This list is way longer than expected. Mostly made it for my own reference, but feel free to tell me if anything looks too strong or weak.
Code:
o:" less" (o:power or o:toughness or o:"mana value") format:vintage -c:u -c:r -c:g -(o:"destroy target" or o:"exile target")For example, it doesn't have Abiding Grace!
Second search added:
Code:
(o:"value 1" or o:"value 2" or o:"value 3") format:vintageCards considered:
Can't Stay Away feels pretty weak for a two colored card. Generating one mana of value and having an expensive flashback isn't super appealing.
Kellan, Daring Traveler, Return Triumphant excluded for producing a token type that I don't run.
Lurrus OP.
Ranger-Captain of Eos seems too strong? The base body is nice and it could get Giver of Runes for any white deck.
Gruesome Menagerie seems too expensive.
Inscription of Ruin discarding an Eldrazi is unfun.
Other notable exclusions are anything that can do true reanimation, as that could cheat out a big Eldrazi.
This list is way longer than expected. Mostly made it for my own reference, but feel free to tell me if anything looks too strong or weak.
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If you can take another token, Tormod, the Desecrator is a cool payoff for that archetype too. Syr Konrad, the Grim will trigger for damage and works for aristocrats.
Isareth the Awakener is another type of effect that might not pop up on Scryfall.
I don't mind Ranger-Captain as a good card. Powerful, but not busted IMO.
Isareth the Awakener is another type of effect that might not pop up on Scryfall.
I don't mind Ranger-Captain as a good card. Powerful, but not busted IMO.
I hate reading Konrad and Isareth, but Isareth especially is really nice here.
Tormod is a maybe. Zombie tokens are common, at least.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/74c5f582-e9c2-4c8f-9d3c-82aaa2a4e944
Has Bloomburrow update and WB small reanimator.
Added a few more removal that can kill larger creatures. Terminate is BR, Dec in Stone is sorcery and gives a clue, and Blot Out is 3 mana.
How do we feel about Fell? Sorcery, but two mana. Might be ok? I don't want Eldrazi getting popped too easily.
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Mana base has
in it in this version, but I'm not sure what the mana will look like.
I'm looking at Nature's Lore, Three Visits, Farseek into Triomes for a green centered domain deck. Would also include shocks and surveils.
Or considering fetch/shock/surveil. I wouldn't run Triomes with fetches because it felt excessive.
Not loving Talismans cutting into green's pie, either. They seem quite good.
Bounce lands have to be in there no matter what the mana base ends up as.
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Looking for advice with cuts. I'm bad at cutting because I like every card.
Has Bloomburrow update and WB small reanimator.
Added a few more removal that can kill larger creatures. Terminate is BR, Dec in Stone is sorcery and gives a clue, and Blot Out is 3 mana.
How do we feel about Fell? Sorcery, but two mana. Might be ok? I don't want Eldrazi getting popped too easily.
_____
Mana base has
in it in this version, but I'm not sure what the mana will look like.I'm looking at Nature's Lore, Three Visits, Farseek into Triomes for a green centered domain deck. Would also include shocks and surveils.
Or considering fetch/shock/surveil. I wouldn't run Triomes with fetches because it felt excessive.
Not loving Talismans cutting into green's pie, either. They seem quite good.
Bounce lands have to be in there no matter what the mana base ends up as.
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Looking for advice with cuts. I'm bad at cutting because I like every card.
Should I make my power level piss poor? Wood Elves, Watchwolf, 2/1 flyers for two, Meeting of the Minds, Mystical Teachings, Cultivate, Phyrexian Arena, bounce lands, Glare of Subdual... Can you tell I'm feeling nostalgic? Maybe not piss poor, but definitely pretty low. If 2007 Standard met ROE draft and time traveled to 2024 is kinda what I'm imagining. @ravnic low power master, opinions?
An issue I'm having in general is that green has "ramp" as a piece of the pie and it therefore looks like the best Big Mana Eldrazi deck. I'm not sure how to make that less pronounced without shifting a lot of the ramp to colorless, but that diminishes green's identity.
Making everything weaker may mean games go longer and more colors can cast Eldrazi. That said, I think the ROE deck of choice was GreenX Eldrazi.
I also had the idea of making things a bit faster and allowing some mana combos to be a viable way of casting Eldrazi. Illuminor Szeras plus Myr Enforcer or some mana doublers come to mind.
I've definitely got analysis paralysis about the best way to do this.
An issue I'm having in general is that green has "ramp" as a piece of the pie and it therefore looks like the best Big Mana Eldrazi deck. I'm not sure how to make that less pronounced without shifting a lot of the ramp to colorless, but that diminishes green's identity.
Making everything weaker may mean games go longer and more colors can cast Eldrazi. That said, I think the ROE deck of choice was GreenX Eldrazi.
I also had the idea of making things a bit faster and allowing some mana combos to be a viable way of casting Eldrazi. Illuminor Szeras plus Myr Enforcer or some mana doublers come to mind.
I've definitely got analysis paralysis about the best way to do this.
It's funny that you say piss poor and then mention good cards, that would still allow for a very dynamic format high in agency. When I hear piss poor power level I think of "Cancel your Hill Giant" and not of standard all stars.
Also note that power level and speed are not the same. Somewhat correlated, but not identical. Still, it can be a way to have 10-drops hard cast, yes.
But yeah, you have to figure out what you really want in terms of eldrazi. Should every single deck cast titans? Maybe it would make sense to only have the green and red color pairs cast them? One advantage of lowering the power level would be that you could make each color appealing, even green in a world with lots of colorless ramp, if you just give green other tools no one else has at that level. For example, in my cube green has 0 creature removal, just like in the old days, but I allow the color creatures that are clearly more pushed than other colors' creatures.
One more note: Use PLOs. That id a tag I use for cards that always give me a power level orientation. So pick like ~15 cards you definitely want to be good in that environment and just go from there. Compare every new addition to these 15 cards.
All Stars from nearly two decades ago. Most of the cards I listed are pretty lame these days.
If green casts all of the titans, then there's no benefit of them being colorless, ya know? It makes it so that the 6+ colorless cards are secretly in the green section, which I don't love.
I'd like blue to stall to titans and maybe red can ritual/treasure one out. White and black have removal that can support those goals. Sure, I'd expect more green titans, but the allure of colorless bombs is lost if they're only in green decks.
I personally like a few fight effects in green, but that's a good point about being able to give green another appeal. Fights strengthen the concept of "green gets better creatures," too.
Green could also fix colors with Nature's Lore into shock while colorless only ramps. Or maybe the Talismans are the colorless ramp and they hurt you to fix with, at least.
I was also thinking that green can adopt domain/converge as a theme.
This is a decent idea. The thing I'm struggling with is that it's hard to say what power level the Eldrazi are. They're insanely powerful, but they also suck due to their mana costs and are therefore dependent on all the factors around them. I guess that's every card, but these ones are a lot more volatile.
Must-haves right now are bounce lands, MDFC lands, and some big Eldrazi. I don't know exactly which big guys I'll go with, but it'll be ~5 of them. Oh, I guess Nest Invader and Kozilek's Predator seem basically required.
They are just as good as they've always been. It's just that we have more powerful stuff today. That doesn't make them lame by any stretch imo.
Have you considered making this heavily about Eldrazi Spawns as well? Would be a nice way to link ramp with something like a sacrifce strategy and make colorless cards super easy to support. And honestly I could see jamming all of these cards except that weird one with myriad into this cube:
https://scryfall.com/search?q=(oracle:eldrazi+oracle:spawn)+(game:paper)&order=color&as=grid
https://scryfall.com/search?q=(oracle:eldrazi+oracle:spawn)+(game:paper)&order=color&as=grid
Yes. The lower power lists includes the large majority of those. Even the regular list has like half.Have you considered making this heavily about Eldrazi Spawns as well? Would be a nice way to link ramp with something like a sacrifce strategy and make colorless cards super easy to support. And honestly I could see jamming all of these cards except that weird one with myriad into this cube:
https://scryfall.com/search?q=(oracle:eldrazi+oracle:spawn)+(gameaper)&order=color&as=grid
I feel like I neither want to cycle these nor cast them, ya?
Seems scary strong?
What do we think on these? MV-1 tokens isn't great, but it isn't bad, either. Could make green have a token/convoke theme, maybe.
I feel like this dude is way too slow?
Some of the more expensive ones can't make the cut because there's already sweet cards in those precious high MV slots.
You can use "o" instead of "oracle" and the parentheses aren't needed in this search. You really only need parentheses when something would conflict like "(oeepee or ooopoo) format:modern" because the "or" needs to get closed off.
Doesn't matter, but the more ya know.
eepee or ooopoo) format:modern" because the "or" needs to get closed off.Doesn't matter, but the more ya know.
I think lowering the power of the cube feels like the correct play. I think a lot of the friction you've been experiencing is trying to maintain this balancing act between all these legacy cube staples and these big clunky payoffs, and I think refocusing on making sure every part of the environment is geared towards making the eldrazi desirable to put in your deck feels like the right path to me.
There's been Eldrazi decks as it is. I think having strong early removal is a big part of that. I don't think that the current power level can't work.
It's moreso my desire to run MDDCs plus bounces that's requiring the power level decrease. Too many sources that enter tapped, but I want smoother draws for fewer nongames. A tapped monogreen source that has a 3 mana fight on it can't keep up with what I've got going.
I'm thinking I'll move more towards old MtG where the spells were generally better than the creatures. Back before a two drop would have 17 effects on it. ROE draft had a similar setup. Flame Slash, Vendetta, Deprive, Narcolepsy, Oust are all solid removal while the creatures were... Mostly pretty bad.
One extra thing I'm looking to do is focus on annihilator Eldrazi. That means some powerful ones are getting excluded, but annihilator gives a good sense of impending doom and adds value to haste effects.
I think you have to distinguish what you mean by higher power level. My cube is high power level and includes two types of broken cards. Some are cards you need to build around like Fastbond, Wheel of Fortune and Yawgmoth's Will. These category of cards would be ok IMO for your cube (not these cards specifically). What wouldn't fly are the other broken cards like Urza, Lord High Artificer, Inti, Seneschal of the Sun, Titania, Protector of Argoth that will take over before you get to 8+ mana.
At higher power levels, I think you hit the nail on the head: your early game removal needs to be top notch. I also think that your mana engines need to be high powered to make it possible to get to 8+ mana. The danger here are midrange cards (broken or not) that make it so it's not worth going to 8+ mana in the first place.
These are the type of ramp engines I'd like to see to get to the Eldrazis. They won't take over the game by themselves, but they are very powerful when used right.
Also, maybe a colorless ramp package could be there so that any color could have access to it and the Eldrazis.
I like the lands that tap for extra mana so that you can run untappers. They also would play well with White catchup ramp. I don't think it necessarily takes away from Green if you go for some of the ramp spells I listed above. They seem different enough that it wouldn't encroach on Green's territory.
Might be something there at a lower power level probably.
At higher power levels, I think you hit the nail on the head: your early game removal needs to be top notch. I also think that your mana engines need to be high powered to make it possible to get to 8+ mana. The danger here are midrange cards (broken or not) that make it so it's not worth going to 8+ mana in the first place.
These are the type of ramp engines I'd like to see to get to the Eldrazis. They won't take over the game by themselves, but they are very powerful when used right.
Also, maybe a colorless ramp package could be there so that any color could have access to it and the Eldrazis.
I like the lands that tap for extra mana so that you can run untappers. They also would play well with White catchup ramp. I don't think it necessarily takes away from Green if you go for some of the ramp spells I listed above. They seem different enough that it wouldn't encroach on Green's territory.
Might be something there at a lower power level probably.
For sure. The current version kinda has a mid-high power war at 1-4 drops and then it tapers off until the Eldrazi.
I have most of that in some version of my lists lol.
I like Mirari's Wake, Nikya, Thran Dynamo, Timeless Lotus, etc to kinda skip the late midgame and go straight up to some titan mana.
Lotus Field, etc, are interesting, but I worry how bad they are with bounces. Maybe aura ramp plus untappers is worth looking into.
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What if the untap theme is pretty small? Basically some normal ramp, but it can be cute with bounces and a few of the multi-mana sources.
Satyr is easy include. Follower will depend on the GU section having room.
Maybe 1-2 of these? The blue ones have some decent secondary effects and the Restorer can do big ramp later.
If I add walkers. Very unlikely right now.
Satyr is easy include. Follower will depend on the GU section having room.
Maybe 1-2 of these? The blue ones have some decent secondary effects and the Restorer can do big ramp later.
If I add walkers. Very unlikely right now.
I'm considering 2-3 mono color payoffs per color to maybe encourage some mono color decks with all the hybrids present. Crypt Ghast seems much more likely than High Tide as a color-specific mana doubler. I don't think I'll have enough untappers to make Untap Tide a thing lol. Maybe Dictate of Karametra, though?
Here's what I'm working on right now. Still fighting with it, but this direction is feeling decent.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/e402ac7e-375a-4fde-92a4-3b92f716fc2f
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/e402ac7e-375a-4fde-92a4-3b92f716fc2f
I like that your sacrifice deck has payoffs that produce mana, making an Eldrazi/sacrifice deck plausible (missing a few sac outlets IMO though). I think it would be cool to have that apply to other archetypes like spells matter as an example. You are doing it a little with Inspired Tinkering and Season of the Bold. Cards like the following could make it a real thing.
Or maybe cards that would get better with Eldrazis for the spells matter deck (as an example for other archetypes)
Or maybe cards that would get better with Eldrazis for the spells matter deck (as an example for other archetypes)
Score, Artist added.
Song feels a little weak. Maybe Irencrag Feat? Adds an extra mana, but I'm still not so sure how good a ritual is. Seems like a liability in hand unless you have the bomb, too. It's a -1. Maybe I'm wrong here.
Goggles is so cool, but feels worse here than Gilded Lotus, Timeless Lotus, or Pristmatic Geoscope, which all super ramp.
Swindle feels like such a low floor, high ceiling card. It'll usually sit in your hand and make 2-3 treasures, I suspect, which probably isn't enough for 5, even going lower power.
I don't really want to risk a 3 mana deal 13 lol.
I liked the decks that you drafted. Those all looked fun to play with and against.
I'd love opinions on if any of the "hybrid" cards are too weak. I love hybrid's flexibility, but I'm a little skeptical on some cards in there.
Explosion is perfect except that it's kinda a 4 mana Wrath.
Choose 5 for each.
There's probably some low power hits that I'm missing in the list, too. Open to adds and cuts all over. Gonna go oracle search my token types to see what got passed over there. I'm really love on spirits and servos. Maybe cut them? Gonna go see.
Song feels a little weak. Maybe Irencrag Feat? Adds an extra mana, but I'm still not so sure how good a ritual is. Seems like a liability in hand unless you have the bomb, too. It's a -1. Maybe I'm wrong here.
Goggles is so cool, but feels worse here than Gilded Lotus, Timeless Lotus, or Pristmatic Geoscope, which all super ramp.
Swindle feels like such a low floor, high ceiling card. It'll usually sit in your hand and make 2-3 treasures, I suspect, which probably isn't enough for 5, even going lower power.
I don't really want to risk a 3 mana deal 13 lol.
I liked the decks that you drafted. Those all looked fun to play with and against.
I'd love opinions on if any of the "hybrid" cards are too weak. I love hybrid's flexibility, but I'm a little skeptical on some cards in there.
Explosion is perfect except that it's kinda a 4 mana Wrath.
Choose 5 for each.
There's probably some low power hits that I'm missing in the list, too. Open to adds and cuts all over. Gonna go oracle search my token types to see what got passed over there. I'm really love on spirits and servos. Maybe cut them? Gonna go see.
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Added a few more MDFCs that fit with the power level decrease. Love those. Need more lands with options.
Made a decent number of cuts, but I'm having a hard time with those, as always.
Green felt like it had too much ramp left considering there are now Talismans. It still might.
I'd like each color to be at 60 cards and I'll figure things out in person from there, I think. Better to have a few too many cards than too few while finally testing.
Made a decent number of cuts, but I'm having a hard time with those, as always.
Green felt like it had too much ramp left considering there are now Talismans. It still might.
I'd like each color to be at 60 cards and I'll figure things out in person from there, I think. Better to have a few too many cards than too few while finally testing.