Brad Loves Eldrazi

[Brad]

Any equipment I should add or remove? I don't want to run Sword of X and Y because protection is randomly unbeatable. Hoping the equipment can give aggro some late game push. Is this too many? I don't really know what an appropriate amount is.

I'm also planning to run a Stoneforge Mystic. I looked at some equipment EDH lists and can't tell if there's other equip theme cards I should be running.

There's a few I'm skeptical on and would love a second (or third or fourth...) opinion.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

I'm moving on from considering colorless for now. I've tried to see the other side and I'm not convinced. Adding 20% more colors isn't worth adding up to 2.5% cards.

There is one colorless mana cost card that I think is quintessentially Eldrazi:


This card is great. It's a big thing with Annihilator– it's really the only common or uncommon Eldrazi printed since their debut that recaptures the feeling of such classics like Ulamog's Crusher and Pathrazer of Ulamog. It has cycling for the games where you can't generate , but it can bring itself back by sacrificing some excess spawn or scion tokens in the late game! Of all the colorless mana cards, this one has the lowest impact and feels the most like the original Eldrazi that we all love so much!

I'm having a bit of an issue figuring out the rock-paper-scissors element of aggro vs midrange vs Eldrazi. I don't want aggro to unbearably rush down the Eldrazi decks, I don't want midrange to wall out aggro too badly, and I don't want midrange to be so appealing that there's no reason to scale up into the Eldrazi deck. Open to input on how to balance all that.

I would consider looking at using cards that interact with some of the lower-cost Eldrazi cards. The Eldrazi from Modern Horizons 3 especially seems to tie nicely into +1/+1 counters and aristocrats stuff.

 

[Nanonox]

I don't want midrange to be so appealing that there's no reason to scale up into the Eldrazi deck.

This seems like a real danger to me. Why pay 9 or 10 mana if I can pay 6 and get the same benefit. For that reason, I would probably take a hard look at any card costing 4+ mana and see if it takes away from the Eldrazis (generically powerful) or adds to them (tutors them up, ramps up to them, gives them haste, …). Then cut the ones that remove the need for Eldrazis.

Stuff like Aurelia, the Law Above strike me as threats that remove the need to go higher up the curve and also shits on aggro if left unchecked.

Stuff like Nehal, the Eternal are awesome because they invite you to build around them and ramp out your Eldrazis.
Honest question: is White even worth it in this cube? It brings so little to the Eldrazi theme. Easy way to make cuts

 

[Brad]

Cycling is a nice alternative mode, but it isn't so interesting that I'd run one C card.

This seems like a real danger to me. Why pay 9 or 10 mana if I can pay 6 and get the same benefit. For that reason, I would probably take a hard look at any card costing 4+ mana and see if it takes away from the Eldrazis (generically powerful) or adds to them (tutors them up, ramps up to them, gives them haste, …). Then cut the ones that remove the need for Eldrazis.

Right. I have Primeval Titan and Lumra as cards that can go from 6 to 10+ quickly, but they're hugely appealing threats on their own...

Stuff like Aurelia, the Law Above strike me as threats that remove the need to go higher up the curve and also shits on aggro if left unchecked.

I was eyeing it as a top end threat for a go wide deck that's running out of fuel. If you've got play experience with the card and I'm wrong, let me know.

Stuff like Nehal, the Eternal are awesome because they invite you to build around them and ramp out your Eldrazis.

I'm looking for stuff that can go from 5-6 mana to 8-10 mana the next turn. Skip those turns between the midrange bombs and the Eldrazi.

Honest question: is White even worth it in this cube? It brings so little to the Eldrazi theme. Easy way to make cuts

I think white plays a decent policing role as an aggressive color and also provides 1-2 mana removal on attackers that have already gotten their potential annihilator triggers. Most of the Wraths are in white, as well.

 

[ravnic]

Cut white and add colorless.

Last try

 

[Brad]

Cut white and add colorless.

Last try

I could probably swap the Domain mana base for a colorless one, but I still think the mana suffers from losing fetch-shock-surveil and I'm also still not convinced that I gain much from the colorless spells.

 

[Brad]

Something I'm fixated on lately is bouncelands plus MDFC lands. I think both are very cool for the Eldrazi part of the cube, but possibly too slow for the rest of it. Not sure how to slow things down a bit without a total rebuild or close to it. Open to input.

 

[Nanonox]

Not sure how … without a total rebuild or close to it.

I feel you! I am adding bouncelands, MDFCs and Surveil duals to my MP cube and it’s a game changer. I am trying a rebuild, but it’s rough.

In your case for slowing games down, I could see you removing some snowballing cards (Anduril), some potent finishers (Hellrider), hatebears that shit on the Eldrazis (Thalia, Heretic Cathar, Linvala for spawns and scions), big burn (Tribal Flames), big cheap dudes (Saddled Rimestag).

 

[Brad]

I feel you! I am adding bouncelands, MDFCs and Surveil duals to my MP cube and it’s a game changer.

Exact setup I'm looking at for the bounces. I considered Temples, as well, but surveil lands make them look so bad.

 

[ravnic]

I think both are very cool for the Eldrazi part of the cube, but possibly too slow for the rest of it.

Do you want to have 'an Eldrazi cube' where at least two thirds of the decks care about casting some Eldrazi? because if you do, you should definitely include stuff like bouncelands and also colorless, because that'll be what people expect.In this cube I'd aim for the power level that lets me include the absolute most Eldrazi possible.

If you just want a regular high powered cube where maybe two guilds care about casting Eldrazi, than you go with the more normal choices and have multiple aggro decks etc.

 

[gaytransmulldrifter]

I wonder if some of the trouble you've been having with making this cube work is rooted in the fact that you're sort of trying to combine a lot of traditional high power fair cube heuristics and card choices with a cube where people are trying to somewhat fairly cast 8 mana spells. Not quite sure what the correct changes would be to accommodate this, but it seems like maybe trying to make a cube where people are playing some of the best-in-class cards in archetypes like aggro and then other people are trying to hard cast Kozilek is a bit of having your cake and eating it too. I think maybe a cube like this might be asking for something other than a traditional cube structures with traditionally powerful macroarchetypes.

I know this is kind of a drastic suggestion but maybe what you actually want here is to take the skeleton of a powerful low to the ground fair cube you have here and just have that be it's own thing, and then build another cube that is designed to support the eldrazi from the ground up. There's a reason RotE is remembered as an extremely weird draft format where peoples normal heuristics had to go out the window. The traditional structure couldn't support what the set was trying to do.

 

[Brad]

Do you want to have 'an Eldrazi cube' where at least two thirds of the decks care about casting some Eldrazi?

I've been thinking of it as a spectrum from aggro to midrange to Eldrazi. In a normal draft, I'd like 1-2 ramp decks looking to land some titans, a control deck with an Eldrazi finisher, and a midrange deck that may venture up the curve a bit. So like 3-4 decks that would have big Eldrazi per draft.

I wonder if some of the trouble you've been having with making this cube work is rooted in the fact that you're sort of trying to combine a lot of traditional high power fair cube heuristics and card choices with a cube where people are trying to somewhat fairly cast 8 mana spells. Not quite sure what the correct changes would be to accommodate this, but it seems like maybe trying to make a cube where people are playing some of the best-in-class cards in archetypes like aggro and then other people are trying to hard cast Kozilek is a bit of having your cake and eating it too. I think maybe a cube like this might be asking for something other than a traditional cube structures with traditionally powerful macroarchetypes.

I've been trying to work my "aggro" decks to be a bit slower, but harder to stop. Flyers is a nice deck because it doesn't kill you super quickly, giving you some time to stabilize, but the flying keyword still presents the opponent with a problem.

I'm eyeing equipment and +1/+1 counters to see if they can give a similar experience.

I know this is kind of a drastic suggestion but maybe what you actually want here is to take the skeleton of a powerful low to the ground fair cube you have here and just have that be it's own thing, and then build another cube that is designed to support the eldrazi from the ground up.

I can't have two cubes. We get together to play once a month at best lol.

There's a reason RotE is remembered as an extremely weird draft format where peoples normal heuristics had to go out the window. The traditional structure couldn't support what the set was trying to do.

I've had Eldrazi decks in the current build that runs aggro cards like Goblin Guide, Tarmogoyf, and Tribal Flames. Running the best in slot cheap-dude-removal like Fatal Push has definitely helped.



I guess the thing that would help me most right now is figuring out what an aggressive deck should look like in a format with a lot of tapped lands. I think it's going to need to be some kind of synergy deck like equip, flyers, counters, etc. That will slow the clock down while (hopefully) giving a way to keep the pressure up and finish the game a bit later.

I think I'll go to EDHrec and click around the themes to see what looks middling aggressive.

 

[Brad]

Some example potential two color sections to build around.

WU Blink

Maybe Ezrim's protection is a bit much and it's better as a Cloudblazer or something. WU Blink has me considering adding 3/3 Golem tokens for Malcator etc.

UB Spell Yard / Control

Not sure on Master of Death. Halo Forager is a little scary with premium 1-2mv removal in the yard because it's also a decent clock.

BR Treasure Aggro???

Would basically force the addition of Servos for Marionette Master and Apprentice. Mayhem Devil excluded for power concerns.

Do you guys think this deck has legs? An aggressive deck with a ramp subtheme is intriguing, but I'm not sure there's enough depth.

Open to BR suggestions. I currently am running like graveyard aggro as the natural intersection of black and red, but it's quite fast and quite resilient.

RG Monsters

Pretty simple. Efficient creatures that tie into titans somehow.

GW +1/+1 Counters

Provide some mild pressure early and grow your threats to keep up as the game goes longer. Hamza even offers some ramp alongside Rishkar and potentially Jiang Yanggu. Possibly need a GW slot for Katilda.

UR Spellslinger
This deck is so natural for UR that I'm not even going to post cards.

WB and BG
Which color combo should get the "sac deck"? BG has Catacomb Sifter that will be in the cube no matter what, but WB lacks identity to me if it isn't the sac deck. BG also has some sort of recursive graveyard deck as an obvious choice.

I'd appreciate input on these two.

RW Equipment

Most of these can get additional cards to seek out the reach needed to finish the game. A little shaky because there aren't that many great equipment. Can we make Sunforger work???

GU Flash Ramp / Big Control

Add in maybe Quandrix Apprentice, Urban Evolution, or Slogurk for lands stuff or Decisive Denial, Quandrix Command, Mystic Snake for instant speed stuff.

 

[Nanonox]

Do you guys think this deck has legs? An aggressive deck with a ramp subtheme is intriguing, but I'm not sure there's enough depth.

I was thinking of Prosper for your cube!



And a host of others would make this a great theme Same with +1/+1 counters using Rishkar, great idea.

Other archetypes that can ramp:

Token decks with Cryptolith Rite in BG? Have Insidious Roots tie tokens, counters and GY together. You could still have elements of sacrifice especially with spawn tokens.

URB artifacts? You could have some cheap artifacts and then use these cards to cheat out Eldrazis.



UGR untap mana rocks or lands?



White is tough. With bouncelands, catchup ramp is live, but it’s hard to make an archetype out if it. Your WB sacrifice deck will be solid I think. Maybe some sacrifice ramp?

 

[Brad]

Untap is smart with the bouncelands and some of the artifacts. Hadn't thought of that in a long time.

I have Cryptolith Rite, but I'm hesitant to add Plant tokens for one cards on Roots.

Artifacts like you listed are on my radar and I often consider going with an artifact themed cube with Eldrazi at the top, but it always feels weird not utilizing Powerstone tokens in that kind of setup. Especially now that I'm eyeing Treasure and Equip. It also gives access to Frog/myr plus Soldevi Adnate, Priest of Yawgmoth, and potentially Slobad, Iron Goblin if the top end were swapped to Phyrexian Triniform, etc, instead of Eldrazi in order to utilize Powerstones.

Definitely running Soultrader and probably Ashnod's. Not sure that Phyrexian is as good because you mostly want to sac Spawns and Scions anyways, so it only filters their mana.

Other BR Treasure stuff:

Zoyowa excluded for looking OP.

 

[Brad]

Struggling to decide on WB's identity. I'm almost definitely running

WU Blink
UB Graveyard
BR Treasure
RG Monsters
GW Counters
WB ?
UR Spellslinger
BG Sac
RW Equip
GU Flash ramp

 

[Nanonox]

Enchantments?

You have a bunch of easy bestow creatures to act as auras/enchantment and tie into your various W and B themes (counters, GY)



Some enchantments could tie into your other themes.

GY: Maybe an aggro zombie subtheme.

Aphemia, the Cacophony
Sarcomancy
Tymaret calls the Dead

Treasure: Black Market Connections

Sacrifice: I’ve liked the Bargain mechanic for tying artifacts, tokens and enchantments in my bounceland cube. I think some could be a nice way to tie enchantments + sacrifice (and say Demonic Pact) for you too.

You could have some Modified payoffs that would work with counters, equipment and auras.

Your payoffs for having enchantments could be Replenish, Rector, Doomwake Giant for control. All that glitters and Michiko’s Reign of Truth could be aggro enchantments…you get the idea!

I also could see some sort of life gain deck make sense to help get to Eldrazis.

 

[Brad]

Enchantments looks ok, but I worry that it's too isolated and tribal.

I'm also nervous that any life gain type deck crushes aggro in an unfun way.



Maybe

WB Sac

BG Creature/Land Yard

?

I'm a little skeptical on WB sac because white doesn't have Spawns and Scions. I think I hate WB.

 

[Brad]

Probably add Servos as the sixth token to enable WB sac:

Servo / Spirit
Spawn / Scion
Treasure / Clue

Might errata afterlife to make mono white Spirits because I already have those and it would assist WB sac more.



Looking into WB sac really makes me want to go nuts on tokens, but I know that my players will stop using token if there are too many to choose from.

Adding Servos tempts me towards an artifact cube, an idea that's always in my mind, but I'll stick to Eldrazi for now. Myr Battlesphere ain't bad, but it's no Kozilek.

 

[Brad]

What do my loyal fans think of something like this?

https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/74c5f582-e9c2-4c8f-9d3c-82aaa2a4e944?scale=large&view=curve

 

[Brad]

Not liking the looks of BR Treasure. I've drafted BR twice now on CC and I much prefer the traditional BR aggro deck to something like Prosper. Maybe BR should be aggro sac, which is the more natural fit. That would mean WB should be ?????, as it currently contains a sac deck.

GW isn't +1 counters anymore. The multicolor section is cards I like and that's that.

Loving the MDFC lands. Control can play more lands and aggro can play more spells.

 

[Nanonox]

WB small reanimate? Would play well with the sacrifice theme in Black and act as pseudo blink in White. Tons of stuff like:

Unearth
Helping Hand
Sevinne’s Reclamation
Chthonian Nightmare

 

[Brad]

WB small reanimate? Would play well with the sacrifice theme in Black and act as pseudo blink in White.

That's a really good point about the overlap. Let me look into that.

 

[Brad]

There's a TON of cards to get back <1 <2 <3 costed cards. No doubt there's support for this.

My mind goes to some sort of Martyr of Sands deck, but that's horrifically unfun for an aggro opponent.

I now wonder what the best things to get back are.

Going to start with Karador EDH lists, but I'm open for suggestions.

 

[Brad]

Tried edhrec for Karador... Not great.

Tried it for Abiding Grace... All life gain.

Tried it for Proclamation of Rebirth... All... Hydras???

MV=1 looks the most interesting due to Grace, Proc, and Eos cards, but it's also the most limiting.

BR, WB, RW looks to be my three most aggressive pairings and I might let WB be "small GY sac" and let BR be "aggro sac" and there will be a ton of overlap between the two and that's fine. BR will be more aggro, less sac. WB will be more sac-combo with Rally the Ancestors and Blood Artists.

BR as a pair naturally wants to send dudes then send burn. WB as a pair naturally wants to??? There's a lot of options for WB, but none of them are nearly as defined as UR spells or something like that. I think that's why it's giving me issues. The same can be said of GW and GU, but I lucked out on those two here.