That's crazy!! What is the reasoning behind no proxies at an unsanctioned for fun event in which players don't keep the cards?
General CBS
- Thread starter James Stevenson
- Start date
It's absurd to not allow clearly-marked-but-wholly-readable proxies at Cube events, but I guess I see such low-effort proxies at EDH tables around me that there's some logic to drawing the line at the easiest point. To be honest, trying to read low-res Magic cards is headache inducing during a game, but even so!
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I am amazed and disappointed that's necessary
CubeCon was (and still is?) partially sponsored by WotC, hence the ban.
From what I’ve heard it didn’t sound like a lot, but I’m sure organizing an event like that is a money sink so every bit helps.
Real refreshing to see Shoebox eschew the corporate influence though. I do think it’s pretty against the spirit of cube to be anti proxy, and like Mapi said it just doesn’t make any practical sense either.
Okay guys, I have a cube idea and I want to check if I'm nuts before I invest more time into it.
You are a planeswalker – that's what I was told when I started playing magic, but that's not how planeswalkers work. Instead they move focus away from me. But what if they didn't? My idea is essentially a cube where, before the actual draft, you draft mini packs with planeswalkers, chose one ans then ... start each game with them on the battlefield.
I'd go even further and say loyalty = life. So your planeswalker's starting loyalty is your starting life total. You die when that hits zero. And for all effects and purposes, gaining life and putting loyalty counters on your pw would be considered the same. You'd also only get access to basic lands of your planeswalker's color identity, but I would like to break with commander expectations and allow splashes that are drafted through duals.
Of course I would need to pick planeswalkers and any cards for the cube carefully, so that games don't end on turn two all the time. Lifegain and proliferate would help.
What do you all think?
You are a planeswalker – that's what I was told when I started playing magic, but that's not how planeswalkers work. Instead they move focus away from me. But what if they didn't? My idea is essentially a cube where, before the actual draft, you draft mini packs with planeswalkers, chose one ans then ... start each game with them on the battlefield.
I'd go even further and say loyalty = life. So your planeswalker's starting loyalty is your starting life total. You die when that hits zero. And for all effects and purposes, gaining life and putting loyalty counters on your pw would be considered the same. You'd also only get access to basic lands of your planeswalker's color identity, but I would like to break with commander expectations and allow splashes that are drafted through duals.
Of course I would need to pick planeswalkers and any cards for the cube carefully, so that games don't end on turn two all the time. Lifegain and proliferate would help.
What do you all think?
Seems incredibly novel and fun, and you can work around the card selection to keep the games the right speed such to not immediately kill your opponent. I don't know if I'd want to go to a Cube night and just draft a novelty like this, but I'd love to be wrong about that, since it really does change a lot of fundamentals about the game.
It says right here in the flavor text that this makes a crater. They screwed up a bit when they added "nonland" and "an opponent controls" to detract from the elegance of this little card. And you can see that somebody agrees with me, because Meteor Sword went the other way.
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I like the idea, but I'm not sure I like life = loyalty? Some colors are just plain better at gaining life than others, with red standing out by effectively being locked out of that aspect of the game.
The real issue, though, is... actually, let's just look at an example:
I start with 3 life. I'm going to spam the +1 ability over and over again because it makes a blocker, and if and when I have 8 life and ~7 lands I'm just going to slam the -7 ability every turn to draw my deck. On the other hand, I'm unlikely to use the -2 ability because my life total is so low. And given that "I've gained a net total of 5 or more life and ramped to 7 lands" is a pretty big ask, that means that my big transformative planeswalker choice effectively turns into "each turn, you gain 1 life and make a 0/1 Plant token".
I think you could resolve the issue by just saying "your life total is loyalty + [some number]"? That would also help with the whole "dying on turn 2" thing.
You could also play with the design space of Vanguards
I personally think that if Vanguards developed in an age where Magic had more liberal patches then they would have stuck around longer. But be careful, some of these guys are flipping nasty, even seemingly innocent ones like Squee (or hilarious ones from a very different era of Magic like Mishra). I have my own opinions on how to mess with them, and Wizards are probably messing with them in the background too, but they are probably close to what you might want.
I personally think that if Vanguards developed in an age where Magic had more liberal patches then they would have stuck around longer. But be careful, some of these guys are flipping nasty, even seemingly innocent ones like Squee (or hilarious ones from a very different era of Magic like Mishra). I have my own opinions on how to mess with them, and Wizards are probably messing with them in the background too, but they are probably close to what you might want.
Squee starts with an Ancestral Recall,
I consider Titania (+2 cards at the start, you may play an extra land per turn) to be the most powerful card in magic.
I consider Titania (+2 cards at the start, you may play an extra land per turn) to be the most powerful card in magic.
Generally, yeah. If you want to be cautious, I'd stay away from walkers that make tokens; however, that doesn't leave you with many options. Most of the WAR walkers are actually pretty okay in a low-power space.
Gonna respond in my thread so that I don't derail this one too badly.I'm kinda curious what you're referring to when you say "nice ramp walkers", because most of the ones I can think of aren't cards I'd run if I was being cautious about planeswalkers.
I do not find most planeswalkers appealing from a gameplay perspective. Most are repeated card value engines, like a Jayemdae Tome with a Nekrataal stapled. They tend to be powerful, good-stuff cards that win the game on their own if not dealt with.
Regarding blockers, it's a common, yet frustrating issue with planeswalkers. Wizard learnt quickly that they are too weak if killed on the spot, so they just make them either kill creatures or create blockers as a matter of course. Since planeswalkers are set-sellers, they also tend to be pushed hard, which makes them hard for me to like.
As far as cube is concerned, the main issue is that they offer no synergy, almost all of them are just good, powerful cards that don't pull you in any direction.
Still, there are some planeswalkers I like:
This is an Icy Manipulator variant. Unique design, fun to see on either side of the board and whose extra gameplay value compared to icy make it play far more smoothly. The Worship-like effect is fantastic yet fair, highly recommended.
The only playable, symmetrical discard effect. It's cheap and powerful, but doesn't carry the game without deckbuilding. Its loyalty is reasonable and the ultimate isn't broken.
Garruk is three cards stapled, namely Thran Dynamo, Call of the Herd and Overrun. While fine cards, none of them are worth a slot in most cubes thanks to a combination of low power level, narrowness and lack of versatility. By stapling all three, you get a good, powerful card that nontheless is not overbearing.
They key is that, while it commits some planeswalker sins, like giving you back part of its mana cost or creating blockers, it's designed in such a way that they are unlikely to be a problem. It goes up as a mana accelerant, which is good but overcosted. It creates blockers, but only going down. And the overrun effect takes at least one turn to activate. Great design, I do like it.
Some other planeswalkers I'm fine with:
High power Crucible of Worlds variant. The key here is the reduced cost, though the ping is no joke, it will kill far more stuff than it gets credit for. The last ability is achievable and fair.
This is used as a second Thassa's Oracle but not being able to be reanimated and the UUU cost are awful.
Redundancy for Goblin Welder. While more stable, I found it redundant with similar effects (Sneak Attack, Reanimate) and I find it better to run Goblin Engineer anyways.
Meh:
A curious card that is hard to play well, it's neither a card draw spell nor a Howling Mine. It's a good alternative to cards like Phyrexian Arena, though it lacks the synergy of other stuff you could run instead.
Similar to the above, this time replacing Bottled Cloister. Slow and somewhat unnecessary.
A different way of adding a Threaten Effect to your cube.
High power Crucible of Worlds variant. The key here is the reduced cost, though the ping is no joke, it will kill far more stuff than it gets credit for. The last ability is achievable and fair.
Bear in mind that you should not run W&6 and Wasteland in the same format.
I'm likely running fetches and it shoots Spawns all the time. Probably a little too much for an already crowded Gruul section.
Thanks for the analysis, Erik. Added a few that I had overlooked.
Same could be said for a turn 4 Wildfire (off a Worn Powerstone or double Talisman) blowing all opponents lands and wiping their board. When you run land destruction, you risk non-games some amount of the time.
Up to you what that threshold is.
Me, I’m like Shamizy where Strip Mine is too much. Rishadan Port, Tangle Wire and Winter Orb though? Go for it!
The flipside would be getting overrun by a pile of goodstuff that can splash without worry which is the issue with high powered environments an increasingly splashier cards alongside great fixing options. I just don't think that there should be nonzero cost to a super greedy mana-base in most cube environments and wish we'd get more disruptive cards that are playable.
You can balance as necessary, but someone assembling W6 + Wasteland can absolutely be played around with sequencing lands differently. I've also had games where Wasteland has just been stranded without a relevant target for multiple turns. It's more on par with something like Thalia, Heretic Cathar or Zhao, the Moon Slayer stranding the opponent for a turn rather than complete annihilation via Strip Mine lock. There's still the cost of using up your own land drop for the turn to disrupt your opponent's development.
Things can change with Exploration effects thrown into the mix to break that parity, but even then just playing out or fetching for your necessary fixing via basics can play around it. I used to have multiple my Utility Land Draft for years, but only recently did I turn it into a 2x inclusion in the main cube due to the printing of Icetill Explorer which hit the critical threshold to where it felt "free" to draft.
You can balance as necessary, but someone assembling W6 + Wasteland can absolutely be played around with sequencing lands differently. I've also had games where Wasteland has just been stranded without a relevant target for multiple turns. It's more on par with something like Thalia, Heretic Cathar or Zhao, the Moon Slayer stranding the opponent for a turn rather than complete annihilation via Strip Mine lock. There's still the cost of using up your own land drop for the turn to disrupt your opponent's development.
Things can change with Exploration effects thrown into the mix to break that parity, but even then just playing out or fetching for your necessary fixing via basics can play around it. I used to have multiple my Utility Land Draft for years, but only recently did I turn it into a 2x inclusion in the main cube due to the printing of Icetill Explorer which hit the critical threshold to where it felt "free" to draft.