General CBS

[FlowerSunRain]

Anyway, my view is that bouncelands aren't fixing. You shouldn't play them as fixing. You shouldn't include them in your cube in order to meet your fixing quota. I mean, they do fix and that's a nice feature, but if you play them to fix over a land that actually fixes that's a mistake and you are going to get burned. I think deck variety benefits positively from their presence in the utility land pile specifically because of the nonfixing work they do and the fact that they also add incidental fixing doesn't hurt.

 

[Goldenpineapple]

I don't really want to cut things that can screw with lands to enable karoos is all.


These are all powerful and interesting cards that happen to screw with lands.

If your idea of an interesting play is playing your lands in the correct order, then more power to you. To me not playing karoos is more about keeping cards I actually want to play / keeping them in check, not 'screwing lands is cool,' and karoos just don't play well with them.

 

[Eric Chan]

New question!

Rank the tapped cycles from best to worst.

(I can't even name all the tapped cycles, so this will be educational for me either way!)

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Stone Rain
Pillage
Avalanche Riders
Annex
Parallax Wave
Venser
Tamiyo
Cryptic
Sinkhole
Slime
Mage

Wasteland
Port
Modified Tec Edge
Dust Bowl

That's what I run. Maybe I should cut out one of the blue ones, as these cards also shit on wild growth and friends.

If someone gets a wild growthed Boros Garrison Annexed, I wouldn't think any less of them if they shed a few tears.

 

[anotak]

wait. you run

and you want bouncelands in the same environ?

what?

i don't understand

 

[CML]

Stone Rain
Pillage
Avalanche Riders
Annex
Parallax Wave
Venser
Tamiyo
Cryptic
Sinkhole
Slime
Mage

Wasteland
Port
Modified Tec Edge
Dust Bowl

That's what I run. Maybe I should cut out one of the blue ones, as these cards also shit on wild growth and friends.

If someone gets a wild growthed Boros Garrison Annexed, I wouldn't think any less of them if they shed a few tears.

nuh woman nuh cry

 

[CML]

New question!

Rank the tapped cycles from best to worst.

(I can't even name all the tapped cycles, so this will be educational for me either way!)

as i rank these i realize i am ranking them based on what they bring to my cube, not how much i like them overall. in other words though i prefer buddy lands to tri-lands, tri-lands do something different in cube and i am closer to running at least 1 of them.

in descending order of sweet:
Seafloor Debris (pronounced 'de-briss')
WWK manlands (Celestial Colonnade)
Temples
Shard lands
Hideaway (U/W only)
Lorwyn Tribal lands (Wanderwine Hub) -- has anyone tried these?
Vivids (fuck putting counters on lands)
buddy lands (Glacial Fortress)
Bouncelands

i omitted stuff like Refuges and Invasion sac lands because they're not cards i would consider running way too awesome for me

 

[FlowerSunRain]

wait. you run
annex
and you want bouncelands in the same environ?

what?

i don't understand

Its weird, Venser is the card that bothers me more, mostly because Annex fucks over bouncelands mercilessly, but its specifically as a part of its design of the card, while Venser seems to do it completely incidentally.

I guess its a trainwreck waiting to happen.

 

[Eric Chan]

This is how I know you and I are in sync when it comes to cube design, FSR. I run a whole bunch of stuff on your land death list, along with others you didn't mention, like Riftwing Cloudskate. Similar to your Wild Growths, I've got a buncha Utopia Sprawls. And yet I still can't wait to toss some bouncelands into the mix.

I love these high risk, low reward gambles.

 

[CML]

utopia sprawl is cool. i probably wouldn't add multiples to make a theme, but the arguments that "it's good enough elsewhere," "green possibly wants more 1-drop accelerants than singleton can provide," and "the theme is subtle enough in both size and upside" are convincing. the thing is, it's low-risk and low-upside and that's why it can work as a design choice, imo (even if it's not one i would make.)

i could of course be completely wrong about this

 

[negativeview]

I don't really want to cut things that can screw with lands to enable karoos is all.


These are all powerful and interesting cards that happen to screw with lands.

The funny thing is that I run two of those myself. I run things that happen to be able to screw over lands, I just don't run enough of them so that you can build a deck whose entire purpose is mana denial and I don't run any that are likely to be able to screw with the first few land drops. By the time your opponent is casting Acidic Slime, you have enough mana. If they start flickering Slime and destroying all of your lands a) they're more ruthless than most of my playgroup and b) you had time to do your thing already.

I don't think a random Acidic Slime is enough reason to be scared of Karoo lands, to be honest. In fact, aside from maybe Ajani, I think they're all costed appropriately to where you can start screwing with lands at that point. I think where most people are (justifiably) worried about Karoo lands is where the cube runs cards like Wasteland. Wasteland and its lower-powered brethren whose entirely purpose is mana denial will never set foot near my cube.

If your idea of an interesting play is playing your lands in the correct order, then more power to you.

Cycling Halimar Depths and optimizing Landfall is a bit deeper than just playing your lands in the correct order. But I appreciate my argument being so flippantly summarized.

 

[Dom Harvey]

Proper land sequencing is great: gives you the satisfaction of making correct decisions in a way that can't possibly be oppressive for the opponent

 

[CML]

Proper land sequencing is great: gives you the satisfaction of making correct decisions in a way that can't possibly be oppressive for the opponent

There is a nice pvddr article about it

http://www.channelfireball.com/home/pvs-playhouse-learning-to-play-lands/

 

[negativeview]

That was a pretty sweet article. Too bad the formatting is all screwed up, looks like it was published then they changed backend software...

 

[Jason Waddell]

utopia sprawl is cool. i probably wouldn't add multiples to make a theme, but the arguments that "it's good enough elsewhere," "green possibly wants more 1-drop accelerants than singleton can provide," and "the theme is subtle enough in both size and upside" are convincing. the thing is, it's low-risk and low-upside and that's why it can work as a design choice, imo (even if it's not one i would make.)

i could of course be completely wrong about this

I would, say, include Arbor Elf and O.G. Garruk as support for the theme, but probably not much more than that. Do we have a thread on land untaps? Anyone care to make one? It's a potentially fun and easy subtheme.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

We've done this already

http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/a-different-way-to-ramp.424/

(Sort of)

 

[Chris Taylor]

Arbor Elf is probably your llanowar elf of choice, but Voyaging Satyr actually untaps bouncelands.
Bonus for Nykthos in the funsies draft?

 

[Eric Chan]

I would, say, include Arbor Elf and O.G. Garruk as support for the theme, but probably not much more than that. Do we have a thread on land untaps? Anyone care to make one? It's a potentially fun and easy subtheme.

I currently run



No one's actually 'gone off' with the above, though I don't know if anyone's tried. It's one of those themes that doesn't scream "linear poison mechanic", though, cause they're each fine on their own.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I currently run

 

[Dom Harvey]

can we take a moment to note the silliness of having Brimaz in a Standard format with Battalion?

 

[ahadabans]

can we take a moment to note the silliness of having Brimaz in a Standard format with Battalion?

Fixed for you.

 

[GenericZero]

so.....when are my Brimazes gonna sky rocket in value?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Does anyone run Brimaz in his cube? Is it fun to play with? It's so obviously and intentionally pushed that I shied away from it so far, so I have no experience with the card whatsoever.

 

[ahadabans]

Does anyone run Brimaz in his cube? Is it fun to play with? It's so obviously and intentionally pushed that I shied away from it so far, so I have no experience with the card whatsoever.

I'm in the same boat. It looked over-the-top to me and so I never even considered it.

 

[Chris Taylor]

I'm in the same boat. It looked over-the-top to me and so I never even considered it.

yeah my pair of blade splicers are serving me fine.

Also: Other than for squirrel nest, how do we feel about this card: