Article ChannelFireball: Declassified Information
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
I don't get to choose the art on CFB. Wait, for our site I do. Let me get on that.
Part of the idea of too much hybrid is that you can't actually cut card space. I don't think draft would be all that great if all the cards were colorless.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
I'm not sure if any Cube (or at least anything close to the box of normal Cube design) could reach that saturation point though, especially if abiding by the singleton rule. Hybrid is basically all upside IMO up to a certain point.
Yes, I agree, it's not really relevant for cube design. It's still useful to be aware of how it affects the dynamic. E.g. if you're trying to push more multicolor aggro, you might want more cards in the vein of Rakdos Cackler.
Just this minute I implemented a solution to listing hybrids in my spreadsheet. It was someone else's idea to put hybrid cards under each color,which is a good idea. I never did that because then the numbers would be off, such as the number of cards in the cube. So what I did is list the hybrid cards a third time in the multicolor section, and count them up in a cell there. Then on the start page where it has the number of cards in the cube, I subtracted the value of that cell. Now this also gives me a more accurate reading of the number of cards in each color. It's way better.
Anyway, this is all pretty much the least interesting part of cube design, but I thought I'd share.
Anyway, this is all pretty much the least interesting part of cube design, but I thought I'd share.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Having done the mono hybrid thing for a while, it's been nice. As jason mentioned the real solution is just to drop the even number of multicolor cards altogether, but a lot of people (myself included) aren't really ready to take that plunge yet.
I've got HHH cards like Reckoner and Ram Gang in their respective multicolor sections because they're so impossible to cast outside a monocolor deck anyways.
If you're worried about color balance:
A) A difference of like 10 cards in a given color section is a really small difference in the number of cards of that color which show up per drafter
B) WotC sets aren't perfectly balanced color wise either (Was Oddesy Torment Torment a horrible draft format? I don't actually know, I didn't play then)
C) Rakdos Cackler in red is essentially marginal upside for your black section. Help a brotha out!
Edit: OH MAN RAM GANG! I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR A GRULL 3 DROP!
I've got HHH cards like Reckoner and Ram Gang in their respective multicolor sections because they're so impossible to cast outside a monocolor deck anyways.
If you're worried about color balance:
A) A difference of like 10 cards in a given color section is a really small difference in the number of cards of that color which show up per drafter
B) WotC sets aren't perfectly balanced color wise either (Was Oddesy Torment Torment a horrible draft format? I don't actually know, I didn't play then)
C) Rakdos Cackler in red is essentially marginal upside for your black section. Help a brotha out!
Edit: OH MAN RAM GANG! I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR A GRULL 3 DROP!
It's less that you have to drop it but more than you need to be aware of it. The right density of gold cards depends on a lot of different variables. Mono hybrid is fine in my book (I do it myself, technically), but the real issue is controlling your low demand (i.e. gold) cards.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
To Clarify: I mean not perfectly balancing the numbers of each gold section, and placing which cards get included on their draft merit, not your quota
I've always felt the Izzet cards were really weak, and I'll acknowledge that I'm only running the number I am because I'm running that same number of each other color pair.
Really what I should do is trim the chaff and only include the cards which make my cube do what it wants, but since I'm not sure what that means yet, I haven't
I've always felt the Izzet cards were really weak, and I'll acknowledge that I'm only running the number I am because I'm running that same number of each other color pair.
Really what I should do is trim the chaff and only include the cards which make my cube do what it wants, but since I'm not sure what that means yet, I haven't
How many Izzet cards are you running? My sections sizes are mostly consistent (~ 3 per guild, with some wiggle room, e.g. Far // Away as the 4th Dimir), so I don't really have to run any "bad" Izzet cards.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Mine are 5 per. At the moment I have
2/1 Sac: Fork, and 3/5 Hasted Thieving Magpie
- Prophetic Bolt: Solid, Nice Splash, doesn't really take you into blue/red
- Electrolyze: See above
- Ral Zarek: Awesome even just as Stagger-Bolt. Again, Mostly used as a splash.
- Fire // Ice: It's okay. The option is nice but this could easily be in my red section.
- Nivix Cyclops: This is mainly an experiment. I'm not sure the spells deck exists in my cube, or is good at all, or even that this is the right card for it, but it seems worth considering.
2/1 Sac: Fork, and 3/5 Hasted Thieving Magpie
Yeah, I mean, 4/5 of those seem strong, no idea bout the Cyclops.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Strong but uninspired. I'd be equally disappointed with a Rakods section consisting of Terminate/Bit Balast/Dreadbore/Wrecking Ball/Twinstrike
No love for Turn/Burn?
CML
Contributor
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I dunno, maybe it's just about having no idea what I want a UR deck to look like in my cube.
Dracogenius, Firemind, Call of the Skybreaker and my HastyPie are all control win conditions. Other than that they're interchangeable.
Electrolyze, Prophetic Bolt, Fire//Ice, Jilt, and Even Ral Zarek (Kinda) are all basically burn spells with upside; Removal.
Izzet Charm and Turn//Burn are utility spells. More interesting, but also both removal.
My red Black section is thus:
Nothing here tells me what a UR deck in my cube might look like, other than only having 1 mountain in it (to fetch)
Dracogenius, Firemind, Call of the Skybreaker and my HastyPie are all control win conditions. Other than that they're interchangeable.
Electrolyze, Prophetic Bolt, Fire//Ice, Jilt, and Even Ral Zarek (Kinda) are all basically burn spells with upside; Removal.
Izzet Charm and Turn//Burn are utility spells. More interesting, but also both removal.
My red Black section is thus:
- Sarkhan the Mad: Enabler
- Dreadbore: Removal for aggro or control
- Spike Jester: Aggro Beater
- Blightning: Disruption card
- Falkenrath Aristocrat: Aggro Curve Topper, Psudo Enabler
Nothing here tells me what a UR deck in my cube might look like, other than only having 1 mountain in it (to fetch)
Dom Harvey
Contributor
I'm running Spellbound Dragon and Blast of Genius :eek:
Maybe it's just my unnatural love for burn + card advantage spells, but I really enjoy playing with those four "strong" Izzet spells.
I think I'm starting to understand why Glacial Ray onto Peer Through Depths is fun - splice is like auras, but for Spikes instead of Timmies. Build your own Prophetic Bolt!
On topic, I'm frankly flabbergasted at the uniformly positive response Jason's article is getting. It's a great article, to be sure, but I was convinced that the entrenched "cube community" would get their collective panties in a bunch over Jason's radical concepts. I mean, I see that Fulminator Mage line repeated on other message boards all the time, and it always astounds me. It's a fantastic cube card. Why would you not run it, based on your baffling self-created bookkeeping constraints?
So the fact that not one person has responded with the typical troll bile is heartening. Maybe there's hope yet for the community at large!
On topic, I'm frankly flabbergasted at the uniformly positive response Jason's article is getting. It's a great article, to be sure, but I was convinced that the entrenched "cube community" would get their collective panties in a bunch over Jason's radical concepts. I mean, I see that Fulminator Mage line repeated on other message boards all the time, and it always astounds me. It's a fantastic cube card. Why would you not run it, based on your baffling self-created bookkeeping constraints?
So the fact that not one person has responded with the typical troll bile is heartening. Maybe there's hope yet for the community at large!
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
So, now that this giant cube mistake has been addressed, who is going to tackle the other big one?
"Card X exists, therefore I can't play Card Y."
I see this one all the time and it makes me cry. The cube is a limited environment. The only thing that matters to a card in the cube is the other cards in the cube. If a card would cause make problematic/overshadow/invalidate certain cards that you enjoy you could always, you know, not put it in. The fact that a card exists NEVER matters to your cube. The fact that YOU CHOOSE to put it in MAKES it matter. The performance of your cube is NEVER anyone's fault but YOUR OWN.
"Card X exists, therefore I can't play Card Y."
I see this one all the time and it makes me cry. The cube is a limited environment. The only thing that matters to a card in the cube is the other cards in the cube. If a card would cause make problematic/overshadow/invalidate certain cards that you enjoy you could always, you know, not put it in. The fact that a card exists NEVER matters to your cube. The fact that YOU CHOOSE to put it in MAKES it matter. The performance of your cube is NEVER anyone's fault but YOUR OWN.
I've had an article related to this in mind, but I'm a little burned out on content at the moment. Maybe in 3 weeks when it's time for me to write my next one. But I'll probably just write about the Eldrazi Domain cube instead. We'll see.
I think I'm little behind on this discussion, but a UR deck in my cube is awesome. It's all about burn, counters, and card draw. Here's my red-blue section:
Electrolyse
Mercurial Chemister
Izzet Charm
Nucklavee
Izzet Chronarch
Nivix Cyclops
Gelectrode
(Maybe this is too many, I might be due to cut some gold cards.) Often this deck ends up in grixis, so you can cast Cruel Ultimatum and have access to some hard removal. The most unconventional card I'm running is Charmbreaker Devils. It's super cool in this deck, when you start doing stuff like this it becomes really fun. There's some more support in blue with Snapcaster Mage, Auger of Bolas, Delver of Secrets, and even Swans of Bryn Argoll. I keep putting Dralnu in and out, I need to try him more.
Electrolyse
Mercurial Chemister
Izzet Charm
Nucklavee
Izzet Chronarch
Nivix Cyclops
Gelectrode
(Maybe this is too many, I might be due to cut some gold cards.) Often this deck ends up in grixis, so you can cast Cruel Ultimatum and have access to some hard removal. The most unconventional card I'm running is Charmbreaker Devils. It's super cool in this deck, when you start doing stuff like this it becomes really fun. There's some more support in blue with Snapcaster Mage, Auger of Bolas, Delver of Secrets, and even Swans of Bryn Argoll. I keep putting Dralnu in and out, I need to try him more.
CML
Contributor
oooo nucky awwww yeah. how's that guy been working out for ya
gelectrode is cool, one of the finer bombs in RGD draft. i've mulled its inclusion over when i'm jonesin' for a second tim after cunning sparkmage but who knows.
devils is pretty cool.
dralnu just never really worked for me
chronarch, chemister both seem underpowered (former especially with archaeomancer, my love of gold cards yielding to my playgroup's love of casting spells)
izzet charm is one of my faves (reanimator too!) but its such a pain in the ass to cast.
gelectrode is cool, one of the finer bombs in RGD draft. i've mulled its inclusion over when i'm jonesin' for a second tim after cunning sparkmage but who knows.
devils is pretty cool.
dralnu just never really worked for me
chronarch, chemister both seem underpowered (former especially with archaeomancer, my love of gold cards yielding to my playgroup's love of casting spells)
izzet charm is one of my faves (reanimator too!) but its such a pain in the ass to cast.