http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/cube-design-dgm-review/
Enjoy! Or don't.
Enjoy! Or don't.
Article ChannelFireball: Dragon's Maze Review
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
CML
Contributor
i love the point about green lacking 3's. for constructed players this is counterintuitive since every GWx deck ever has too many three-drops. standard had wolfir avenger, hammer elephant, silverblade etc. and in legacy you get to choose from kotr, lily, souls, and a bunch of others (my theory as to why bob and goyf are so expensive, in spite of not being 10-20x as powerful as a giant knight is because there are no other good 2's -- voice of resurgence could be good, but your undying analogy was so good.) it's counterintuitive that green doesn't have good 3's but damned if it isn't true. i wanna try the krasis too for that exact reason.
one last point: sire in some sort of "low-resource" midrange deck (jund)? i think it's worth trying. i also think the card is historically funny and all i want to do in standard now is make a cavern on demon and slurp the tears of the blue players.
someone make a prerelease impressions thread?
one last point: sire in some sort of "low-resource" midrange deck (jund)? i think it's worth trying. i also think the card is historically funny and all i want to do in standard now is make a cavern on demon and slurp the tears of the blue players.
someone make a prerelease impressions thread?
Thanks jason for the enlightenment on AEtherling. i still fear the "boring" victories it can produce, but feel slightly more at ease with the card after reading your point of vieuw.
I felt little love for Pyrewild shaman though.
I'm looking to cut a card for advent of the wurm. it realistically always create's a dead body when it enters during your opponents attack phase, while your left with an underpriced 5/5 trample.
I felt little love for Pyrewild shaman though.
I'm looking to cut a card for advent of the wurm. it realistically always create's a dead body when it enters during your opponents attack phase, while your left with an underpriced 5/5 trample.
Hah, I love that you included my random horse-kick-dirt quote in the intro paragraph. I'VE MADE THE BIG TIME
Geeeeez, good call on Blood Scrivener being a good fit for Smallpox decks. That's an archetype I've been trying to jumpstart lately, and like you said in the set review, these decks are often looking at few lands and even fewer cards in hand. I originally felt that this "fixed" Dark Confidant didn't have any applications in most cubes, but I think you've found the best one yet.
Also, very much enjoyed the "Voice of Resurgence harkens back to the old days of 'wall of text' card design" line. Hah!
Geeeeez, good call on Blood Scrivener being a good fit for Smallpox decks. That's an archetype I've been trying to jumpstart lately, and like you said in the set review, these decks are often looking at few lands and even fewer cards in hand. I originally felt that this "fixed" Dark Confidant didn't have any applications in most cubes, but I think you've found the best one yet.
Also, very much enjoyed the "Voice of Resurgence harkens back to the old days of 'wall of text' card design" line. Hah!
Dom Harvey
Contributor
I was less enamoured with this article than I have been with your regular ones, but set reviews are never easy to do. I'm impressed that you were so restrained with that troll in the comments section.
Yeah, I just read through the comments section, and my eyes rolled so far into the back of my head I'm gonna need some excavation tools to dig them out. But way to take the high road and avoid the troll bait!
Hi Dom, can you be more precise? If there's anything I can do to improve any of the content I'd love to hear suggestions.
For the set review I tried to keep it more general and not push my "fun max" agenda so hard, but there are certainly other things you might not have liked. Language too dry? Not cover enough cards? Were my evaluations off? Anything you didn't like is an opportunity for me to improve.
I gotta say there are some truly mean and hurtful people in the Magic community.
Rob Dennis
Developer
As someone with a slightly larger cube who does have tokens in there I'd probably sit Geist-honored monk for the scion
gotta agree. "Ross" kinda re-set the bar on how to be a hypocrite to me. I'd calculate the amount of reasons why he was rude, hurtful and condescending, but i just don't have the drive for it.
Comments aside though, i felt the article was lacking in some points, but that could be just me. i just would've like maybe two or three lines more on the Pyrewild shaman and the sire of insanity.
Reading over it once more, those two have a bit of a "because i said so" feel to it, mostly because you are pretty to-the-point with explaining what's wrong with the cards and actually get the job done in two lines, wich is little time to register the actual content of the card. you almost just "skip" the card, despite having read everything. Adding some extra filler sentences might make bringing across the idea easier as opposed to what we're used (being as effective as possible with as little resources as possible).
Comments aside though, i felt the article was lacking in some points, but that could be just me. i just would've like maybe two or three lines more on the Pyrewild shaman and the sire of insanity.
Reading over it once more, those two have a bit of a "because i said so" feel to it, mostly because you are pretty to-the-point with explaining what's wrong with the cards and actually get the job done in two lines, wich is little time to register the actual content of the card. you almost just "skip" the card, despite having read everything. Adding some extra filler sentences might make bringing across the idea easier as opposed to what we're used (being as effective as possible with as little resources as possible).
Hannes, you may be right. I was already at a pretty high word limit. I tried to avoid the reviewing mistake of just stating what the card does and giving the reader the benefit of the doubt for some baseline knowledge. Pacing is definitely an issue with set reviews, so I tried not to overstay my welcome. This was definitely the article I felt least satisfied with. I feel far more comfortable laying out theory.
I really liked the fact that the article dodged the common pitfal of spending a whole paragraph for each card just to point ou what the card has written on it for most of the time 
I disagree with Pyrewild Shaman, as it is not simply a pump effect. Yes, it is better as a pum effect, but also cool as a possible creature if somehow yours got removed. I know I'm adding it it to my cube for sure because I want Shrine of Burning Rage gone from my list (hasn't done anything, even in a monored build).
Sire of Insanity is also a more midrange type of card, as midrange decks usually try to use the first couple of turns to eliminate resource pairity to have a better end game, and Sire ensures that the early game advantage is maintained. I will probably shoot this guy to my test pool to see how it plays.
I was surprised to see Elusive Krasis there as I hadn't seen much people discussing it and I had my eye on him for a while to maybe include him in my list.
I missed reviews for the following cards from DMZ:
• Savageborn Hydra. Cool all-around beater. Interacts nicely with plenty of cube cards (equipments, pumps, etc).
• Ruric Thar. Good ramp target and awesome end of the curve for beatdown decks.
• Skylasher, to make sure it shouldn't be played in cube.
• Spike Jester, a good 3-drop for BR aggro
• Lavinia, which is a neat card if the cube supports blink strategies.
• Maybe Blood Baron of Viskopa, as it is a powerful BW finisher.
I disagree with Pyrewild Shaman, as it is not simply a pump effect. Yes, it is better as a pum effect, but also cool as a possible creature if somehow yours got removed. I know I'm adding it it to my cube for sure because I want Shrine of Burning Rage gone from my list (hasn't done anything, even in a monored build).
Sire of Insanity is also a more midrange type of card, as midrange decks usually try to use the first couple of turns to eliminate resource pairity to have a better end game, and Sire ensures that the early game advantage is maintained. I will probably shoot this guy to my test pool to see how it plays.
I was surprised to see Elusive Krasis there as I hadn't seen much people discussing it and I had my eye on him for a while to maybe include him in my list.
I missed reviews for the following cards from DMZ:
• Savageborn Hydra. Cool all-around beater. Interacts nicely with plenty of cube cards (equipments, pumps, etc).
• Ruric Thar. Good ramp target and awesome end of the curve for beatdown decks.
• Skylasher, to make sure it shouldn't be played in cube.
• Spike Jester, a good 3-drop for BR aggro
• Lavinia, which is a neat card if the cube supports blink strategies.
• Maybe Blood Baron of Viskopa, as it is a powerful BW finisher.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Accounting for the fact that, as you said, it's hard to tailor recommendations to all Cube types/sizes, whenever you focus on whether a card fits in your Cube the discussion will inevitably centre around the type/size that matches yours; and since your identity as a Cube writer so far has been based on trying unconventional ideas, some people might find it hard to identify with the article (not that this excuses the bile being spewed by some of the commenters). As for specific points:
- I think you underrate both split cards. Turn in particular should be useful given the high density of impactful creatures in your Cube.
- The Blood Scrivener discussion seemed muddled. 'Hellbent doesn't exist in my Cube'; does hellbent exist in any Cube, or is it a natural side-effect of having enough cheap cards that an aggro deck will reliably empty its hand? Either way, I think the wording was unclear.
- I think you underrate both split cards. Turn in particular should be useful given the high density of impactful creatures in your Cube.
- The Blood Scrivener discussion seemed muddled. 'Hellbent doesn't exist in my Cube'; does hellbent exist in any Cube, or is it a natural side-effect of having enough cheap cards that an aggro deck will reliably empty its hand? Either way, I think the wording was unclear.
That's a good point Dom. What I was going for was to say that there are no other cards that reward you for dumping your hand (i.e. Hellbent), so a single copy of such an effect isn't one people are going to build around. You aren't going to build your deck to maximize Scrivener, but rather slot in Scrivener to maximize your deck.
EDIT: No cards but Wheel of Fortune I guess.
I did try to keep my reviews very general and only mention the unconventional stuff as an afterthought, but apparently even that was too much for some people. I think very little of the article related to the specific eccentricities of my own cube, but perhaps I should leave that out of set reviews entirely? I did think the comments were very relevant to my thoughts on Scrivener and Voice of Resurgence.
It's very possible I underrated the split cards. I do plan to test them. I was also encouraged to give binary verdicts when possible and not be wishy-washy, as I think it makes for a better read. I'd rather be wrong and interest people than be on the fence about everything. There's certainly a balance to be had though.
EDIT: No cards but Wheel of Fortune I guess.
I did try to keep my reviews very general and only mention the unconventional stuff as an afterthought, but apparently even that was too much for some people. I think very little of the article related to the specific eccentricities of my own cube, but perhaps I should leave that out of set reviews entirely? I did think the comments were very relevant to my thoughts on Scrivener and Voice of Resurgence.
It's very possible I underrated the split cards. I do plan to test them. I was also encouraged to give binary verdicts when possible and not be wishy-washy, as I think it makes for a better read. I'd rather be wrong and interest people than be on the fence about everything. There's certainly a balance to be had though.
CML
Contributor
jason -- don't let the mean people bother you, they might not actually be mean and you're happy and your articles are sweet so who cares. leave the bad responses to criticism to wizards employees, cedric phillips, zac hill, and other people that aren't really happy.
(for what it's worth, the way wizards sets up the community, the scarcity of positions, empowerment, respect, and money, a lot of unhappiness is inevitable and trolls are inevitable and meta-trolls and insecure people like ceddy and zac are inevitable too, so don't take it too hard.)
(for what it's worth, the way wizards sets up the community, the scarcity of positions, empowerment, respect, and money, a lot of unhappiness is inevitable and trolls are inevitable and meta-trolls and insecure people like ceddy and zac are inevitable too, so don't take it too hard.)
CML
Contributor
dom and jason -- my 2¢ on card evaluations:
savageborn hydra -- this card was a ridiculous bomb at any CMC at the prerelease and in cube he might be very good too. double strike is both fun and abusable and the 'add heads for 2' ability is insane.
ruric thar -- RG would love another six-drop that isn't dragon broodmother. definitely try him. plus, he's flavorful as hell.
spike jester -- i suggest trying it too, though i'm prepared for it to be underwhelming
skylasher, blood baron, lavinia -- god i hate protection, it's so uninteractive and is way more likely to ruin cube games than make them exciting. think of it like hexproof except ugh so much worse. (there is a place for protection mechanics and that place is constructed -- preferably sideboards)
edit: turn and burn is not a good card. snakeform is a much better version and it's not exactly cube-playable
I made a point to jason about lavinia earlier, but i'll throw it out there once more. I got to play her in the sealed pool on saturday, and she was great. Later on the same day i crafted an EDH-Deck around her and played a 2hr game where she had a large impact. Both the presence of Mana-rocks and small creatures (aggressive or utility) create situations where she can shine. She often is a great overrun type of card, but at the same time create's windows of opportunity to interact with difficult boardpositions. the protection red is actually working against her inclusion, wich i feel is a really sad thing for what is apart from that such a great and multi-faceted card.
Rob Dennis
Developer
I could have sworn that you took 5:
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Split_cards (there's a note there about Dark Confidant, which I have to assume works the same).
Enjoyed the director's cut
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Split_cards (there's a note there about Dark Confidant, which I have to assume works the same).
Enjoyed the director's cut
I could have sworn that you took 5:
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Split_cards (there's a note there about Dark Confidant, which I have to assume works the same).
Enjoyed the director's cut
Oops!
Edited the article, thanks for pointing out the error of my ways.
Hello Jason,
Thise article has been a while ago now. How do look back on your review? Have some cards dissapointed or surprised you?
I don't run enough cubedrafts myself to come to somewhat definitive conclusions yet, but after playing with DGM for a while I've added some cards from DGM that I didn't see having potential at first. Not sure yet if they will stay though. Varolz and Deadbridge Chant for example. To my surprise more people seem to run Varolz btw.
I am also especially curious if your opinion about Aetherling has changed. I haven't played with the card, but seeing it in action made me somewhat of a believer. I'll give him a try, although the art (which I personally don't like at all) has stopped me from doing it earlier.
Thise article has been a while ago now. How do look back on your review? Have some cards dissapointed or surprised you?
I don't run enough cubedrafts myself to come to somewhat definitive conclusions yet, but after playing with DGM for a while I've added some cards from DGM that I didn't see having potential at first. Not sure yet if they will stay though. Varolz and Deadbridge Chant for example. To my surprise more people seem to run Varolz btw.
I am also especially curious if your opinion about Aetherling has changed. I haven't played with the card, but seeing it in action made me somewhat of a believer. I'll give him a try, although the art (which I personally don't like at all
) has stopped me from doing it earlier.
Hello Jason,
Thise article has been a while ago now. How do look back on your review? Have some cards dissapointed or surprised you?
I don't run enough cubedrafts myself to come to somewhat definitive conclusions yet, but after playing with DGM for a while I've added some cards from DGM that I didn't see having potential at first. Not sure yet if they will stay though. Varolz and Deadbridge Chant for example. To my surprise more people seem to run Varolz btw.
I am also especially curious if your opinion about Aetherling has changed. I haven't played with the card, but seeing it in action made me somewhat of a believer. I'll give him a try, although the art (which I personally don't like at all
Hi Arjan, I don't know if you saw my front-page article here: http://riptidelab.com/?p=240
Beyond that, I haven't actually tested Aetherling. I played a control deck last night where he would have been pretty terrible though, I can say that much. My finishers were Consecrated Sphinx and Angel of Serenity, and even then it was difficult to stabilize against the speed of my format.
The other issue is that I run 3-card gold sections, so I simply don't have room for a lot of these gold cards at the moment.
Voice of Resurgence has been about as good as I expected, which is "somewhere in the ballpark of a 2/2 Undying".