I played that card back when you could play Hypergenesis in extended. It was a solid man.
Article ChannelFireball: Utility Land Draft
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
[11:37:09 AM] CML: the utility land draft is totally worth it
[11:37:16 AM] CML: i hate the drafting process though
[11:37:21 AM] CML: maybe we can just give people stuff
[11:37:48 AM] Jason Waddell: we could make 3 "tiers" of lands
[11:37:55 AM] Jason Waddell: choose one from Tiers 1 and 2
[11:37:58 AM] Jason Waddell: choose two from Tier 3
[11:38:22 AM] Jason Waddell: saves tons of time
[11:38:30 AM] Dom Harvey: too complicated imo
[11:37:16 AM] CML: i hate the drafting process though
[11:37:21 AM] CML: maybe we can just give people stuff
[11:37:48 AM] Jason Waddell: we could make 3 "tiers" of lands
[11:37:55 AM] Jason Waddell: choose one from Tiers 1 and 2
[11:37:58 AM] Jason Waddell: choose two from Tier 3
[11:38:22 AM] Jason Waddell: saves tons of time
[11:38:30 AM] Dom Harvey: too complicated imo
CML
Contributor
Maybe people can just grab 4 after the draft is done and argue with each other for who wants what. This is a terrible idea but honestly it seems preferable to what we both do right now i.e. drafting from packs is great fun but nobody really enjoys the process of drafting the funsies lands, and they can't really go (except Cradle, which goes to the main Cube)
The idea that some people play Cube without these cards is somewhat heartbreaking
The idea that some people play Cube without these cards is somewhat heartbreaking
Yeah, it takes way too long for what it is, considering that unlike in real life, you can't build your deck at the end while the utility picks are going on. It took under thirty minutes to draft all three packs, and it felt like it took nearly half that time to resolve the thirty-two utility lands.
Jason, you need to post a list of your utility lands in a prominent place somewhere. You can't really expect everyone to memorize all of the esoteric lands Wizards has printed over the last twenty years that nobody else in the world cubes with. Instead of card tooltip links, make 'em full size [ci] tags.
Everyone submit a ranked list of six lands to Jason - or maybe to someone who's not drafting, like me - and then have that person resolve all the conflicts? i.e. if you ranked Treetop Village third but James ranked it second, he would get it. Ties broken by drafting order, or something.
Alternately, just let everyone have what they want, allowing duplicates? Two people running Kessig Wolf Run is not the end of the world. If that makes things too powerful, maybe separate the utility list into Tier A, Tier B, and Tier C, with each player picking a land from A, one from B, and two from C, again allowing overlaps.
edit: Oops Jason suggested this already. I'm dumb.
Jason, you need to post a list of your utility lands in a prominent place somewhere. You can't really expect everyone to memorize all of the esoteric lands Wizards has printed over the last twenty years that nobody else in the world cubes with. Instead of card tooltip links, make 'em full size [ci] tags.
Everyone submit a ranked list of six lands to Jason - or maybe to someone who's not drafting, like me - and then have that person resolve all the conflicts? i.e. if you ranked Treetop Village third but James ranked it second, he would get it. Ties broken by drafting order, or something.
Alternately, just let everyone have what they want, allowing duplicates? Two people running Kessig Wolf Run is not the end of the world. If that makes things too powerful, maybe separate the utility list into Tier A, Tier B, and Tier C, with each player picking a land from A, one from B, and two from C, again allowing overlaps.
edit: Oops Jason suggested this already. I'm dumb.
I think the tier list has potential (mostly as a time saver), and it probably approximates the experience well enough. It would probably have to be a little flexible, like.
At most 1 from Tier A
At most 2 from Tier A + B
Four total.
That keeps you from getting super screwed if, say, you want two from Tier B but none from Tier A, or three from Tier C or whatever.
At most 1 from Tier A
At most 2 from Tier A + B
Four total.
That keeps you from getting super screwed if, say, you want two from Tier B but none from Tier A, or three from Tier C or whatever.
But maybe all you need are two tiers.
Somebody rank the Top 16 Utility Lands from my list.
i totally did that
i also took no time picking because i looked at the page and made a pick and came up w/ a backup pick as it was going on
if you go watch the video it was fine for me, im blaming everyone else!
Dom Harvey
Contributor
ok, but then you have to remember which land is from which tier, and which tiers you can/cannot take from any more, and if someone takes two lands from the wrong tier then you have to go back and redo everything and it's just SO messy
Here's what I drafted up from my experience from how they get prioritized.
TIER A (Volrath's to Main Cube)
Filter of <CHOICE>
TIER B
Temple of <CHOICE>
TIER C
The rest.
3 Cloudpost + 2 Glimmerpost [Two Picks]
Seat of the Synod + Vault of Whispers + Darksteel Citadel [Two Picks]
TIER A (Volrath's to Main Cube)
Filter of <CHOICE>
TIER B
Temple of <CHOICE>
TIER C
The rest.
3 Cloudpost + 2 Glimmerpost [Two Picks]
Seat of the Synod + Vault of Whispers + Darksteel Citadel [Two Picks]
The added benefit is that we can add more lands that aren't there. Like, I don't want there to be too many fixers, so I don't include stuff like Creeping Tar Pit and Raging Ravine, but we could easily shove them in the appropriate tier without messing up the dynamic or increasing the overall density of fixing in the draft.
CML
Contributor
That looks about right, though I do think funsies land draft should have 1 fixer per guild, something color-appropriate. The WWK manlands are iffy IMO because they're really strong cards in the Cube itself. My ideas are these, but some amount of buddy-lands or SOM fast-lands should be considered if they're not in the main Cube
Tiers allowing duplicates, right? If all eight people can nab Shelldock Isle, are your concerns about complexity addressed, Dom? Nobody's waiting on anyone, and you can take a look at the list for a few minutes and just send your choices to Jason or me. Then go ahead and build your decks.
You don't have to send your choices to anyone.
I added Filter of Choice to Tier 1. That should roughly approximate what you are going for.That looks about right, though I do think funsies land draft should have 1 fixer per guild, something color-appropriate. The WWK manlands are iffy IMO because they're really strong cards in the Cube itself. My ideas are these, but some amount of buddy-lands or SOM fast-lands should be considered if they're not in the main Cube
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Isn't part of the fun of the land draft that you're actually drafting them?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
What if we cut it down super super small and gave everyone like 2 picks?
I think a lot of the complexity involved right now is the sheer amount of information you need to process while staring at like 60 lands. If it was like 24 lands total, would it be easier?
I love the idea of "<Cycle> of choice" style picks. I've always loved the SOM fastlands, but they don't really have a home in my cube since their fixing is SO aggro focused. Giving them new life here would be sweet
I think a lot of the complexity involved right now is the sheer amount of information you need to process while staring at like 60 lands. If it was like 24 lands total, would it be easier?
I love the idea of "<Cycle> of choice" style picks. I've always loved the SOM fastlands, but they don't really have a home in my cube since their fixing is SO aggro focused. Giving them new life here would be sweet
Well, I really like playing janky lands like Cycling lands and Flagstones of Trokair that I would never use otherwise. The approach I have is that it's a small amount of tedium to go through in exchange for better games. It's never been an issue in my real cube, largely because they are all laid out, which tells me I mostly need to add pictures to my cube's OP.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
How do you lay out temple of choice style picks anyways? Just a big pile of temples? (Do people confuse that for getting all of them, like with the cloudposts?)
Is there a custom card that explains the pick?
Is there a custom card that explains the pick?
Are there any other <CHOICE> lands we want? Maybe that's the way to fix the whole multicolor fixing section of the design.
For now the <choice> ones are strictly for my online cube.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Choice of bounceland maybe? There's a few random lands which are miligned because they serve one deck and one deck only, but most of them are kinda boring (Glacial fortress, for eg)