Article ChannelFireball: Utility Land Draft
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
The article is online now: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/cube-design-utility-land-draft/
YAY! Land utility draft article!
Huh. It's scary: your cycle of fixers in your land pile (4 WWK manlands + Horizon Canopy + 5 EVE filters) is exactly the same as the ten fixers that I run in my main cube alongside my fetches and shocks. Something about great minds, mumble mumble mumble.
I personally can't wait to whip this out at my cube draft next week, and not only cause it'll be the first time I've cubed in nearly two months. Not to sound overly hyperbolic, but I really think you've hit a gold mine of design here. I wouldn't be surprised if, in a couple of months, this land utility draft becomes standard for all cube drafts, just like Grid Draft has for two-player variants.
Huh. It's scary: your cycle of fixers in your land pile (4 WWK manlands + Horizon Canopy + 5 EVE filters) is exactly the same as the ten fixers that I run in my main cube alongside my fetches and shocks. Something about great minds, mumble mumble mumble.
I personally can't wait to whip this out at my cube draft next week, and not only cause it'll be the first time I've cubed in nearly two months. Not to sound overly hyperbolic, but I really think you've hit a gold mine of design here. I wouldn't be surprised if, in a couple of months, this land utility draft becomes standard for all cube drafts, just like Grid Draft has for two-player variants.
I really enjoyed your article, the utility land draft sounds like a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to testing it out myself. Giving a chance for utility lands to shine without sacrificing precious cube space is a brilliant idea!
I agree with all of this. Great article. I can't wait to try this out... once I can get my hands on some utility lands anyway 
It's just so simple and self explanatory. I loved the part of the article where you talked about just laying the lands out on the table rather than explaining everything. It's such a Rosewater move. It piques everyone's interest while encouraging the new players to ask about the added complexity when they're ready for it.
It's just so simple and self explanatory. I loved the part of the article where you talked about just laying the lands out on the table rather than explaining everything. It's such a Rosewater move. It piques everyone's interest while encouraging the new players to ask about the added complexity when they're ready for it.
Thanks! My favorite part of the article was getting an excuse to make minimalist Magic card graphics. I'm probably the only Magic writer who makes their images in a statistical programming language...I agree with all of this. Great article. I can't wait to try this out... once I can get my hands on some utility lands anyway
Eric: That cycle is without question the obvious choice. Sorry Chris, you're on the wrong side of history here. Horizon Canopy is way cooler than Wildwood, and that's before you even get to the card art.
Heh. I also linked to the forums in my "20 fetchlands" comment.
It's funny, in some of the early drafts people would start pushing sections together to make it a solid grid (e.g. the land destruction and manlands) before I put a stop to it. Not everyone visualizes data for a living.
It's funny, in some of the early drafts people would start pushing sections together to make it a solid grid (e.g. the land destruction and manlands) before I put a stop to it. Not everyone visualizes data for a living.
CML
Contributor
haha, i love canopy. my joke about it is that no land has won me more games, and no land has lost me more games. (yeah wildwood isn't great -- ravine tar pit colonnade are far better -- but it beats lavaclaw reaches! however, there is no RB land you can crack for a card ...)
personally i run both of them because i like to 'have my cake and eat it too.' i learned that i can do that from this sweet article written by this dude who wants to help people make fun cubes
personally i run both of them because i like to 'have my cake and eat it too.' i learned that i can do that from this sweet article written by this dude who wants to help people make fun cubes
Hah, yeah, i guess that's a pretty great professional background for innovative cube design... After all there's quite a bit of data to be visualized in your average cube So, for some reason, thinking about the land draft has been reminding me of the idea of packages in drafting. Like, if you draft Squadron Hawk you actually get 3 or 4, or if you draft Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, you also get a couple artifact lands or something. I think the land draft is a much more elegant way to solve some of the same problems (as well as sticking to the fundamentals of drafting. violating the one pick->one card rule is pretty extreme). It has me thinking though, and I do think packages are an interesting design space. The idea I'm currently working on is kind of a synthesis. Like maybe certain cards come with a ticket to some niche draft, allowing you to forgo future land draft picks in order to select from the little artifact pile, or the discard outlet pile. Probably not a great idea, as t adds a LOT of complexity... but whatever, my design method is kind of a "throw it all at the wall and see what sticks" type thing.
So, for some reason, thinking about the land draft has been reminding me of the idea of packages in drafting. Like, if you draft Squadron Hawk you actually get 3 or 4, or if you draft Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, you also get a couple artifact lands or something. I think the land draft is a much more elegant way to solve some of the same problems (as well as sticking to the fundamentals of drafting. violating the one pick->one card rule is pretty extreme). It has me thinking though, and I do think packages are an interesting design space. The idea I'm currently working on is kind of a synthesis. Like maybe certain cards come with a ticket to some niche draft, allowing you to forgo future land draft picks in order to select from the little artifact pile, or the discard outlet pile. Probably not a great idea, as t adds a LOT of complexity... but whatever, my design method is kind of a "throw it all at the wall and see what sticks" type thing.
I played the "Star Wars Living Card Game" this weekend, and it works entirely in packages. When you select a card for your deck, you're actually selecting a fixed group of 6 cards.
As far as other ideas, the guy who blogs at http://mtgcube.blogspot.com has an interesting method where less powerful cards (or narrow cards) just go in his "B Cube". From what I understand, it's just a box of cards that you can take cards from after the real draft to round out your deck. It's a way to support niche strategies, but I think it's a little tough especially for new players. If you aren't familiar with the contents of the box, you really can't optimize around its presence during your drafting.
Another alternative some people have suggested is to just put some narrow cards in the utility land draft. That way, if you want Careful Study as a discard outlet or whatever, you have to pick it over a land. This is maybe a half-way point that gives you what you want without adding too much complexity. I myself have toyed with including Expedition Map in the land pile, for example.
As far as other ideas, the guy who blogs at http://mtgcube.blogspot.com has an interesting method where less powerful cards (or narrow cards) just go in his "B Cube". From what I understand, it's just a box of cards that you can take cards from after the real draft to round out your deck. It's a way to support niche strategies, but I think it's a little tough especially for new players. If you aren't familiar with the contents of the box, you really can't optimize around its presence during your drafting.
Another alternative some people have suggested is to just put some narrow cards in the utility land draft. That way, if you want Careful Study as a discard outlet or whatever, you have to pick it over a land. This is maybe a half-way point that gives you what you want without adding too much complexity. I myself have toyed with including Expedition Map in the land pile, for example.
How about adding a fourth booster of a set limit of cards, containing mostly lands and utility ? I know i'm not the person msot fit to throw ideas out in the open but i felt like this could be a way to go as well. It increases the amount of interaction between picks, and rounds out the left/right/left/right passing order for boosters. some multicolor lands might end up in an unwanted spot, but at the same time the amount of lands you get to offer increases tremedously (about 80 to 120 depending on booster size)
It still feels kinda weird and stupid though, since the current utility land draft works just fine.
It still feels kinda weird and stupid though, since the current utility land draft works just fine.
Currently an 8-man draft of my cube will have 78 lands drafted and 106 lands to choose from (numbers combine main draft and utility draft). I don't really think we need to pass above 10 lands drafted per player.
Nope, those numbers are spot on and awesome (an average of 9-10 lands per player seems smashing !)
Once my decks start failing to find off of Path to Exile, I think it's gone too far.
CML
Contributor
pfffft happens in modern all the time.
in all actuality i love this idea but its implementation has been a bit problematic. not in the sense of acquiring the lands or putting em on the table or drafting em or putting em in the decks, which is fun, but jesus some of these things are powerful. like what do you do when a control deck is looping baleful strix with academy ruins? any dude with volrath's stronghold? fogging you with kor haven? i'm not ready to give up on the idea yet, not at all, but some kind of power cap is probably necessary.
the flip-side is that, though since the colorless lands are out the main cube and aren't taking the 'spot' of fixing, there's now a bunch more of them and they get played and mana-bases paradoxically end up less consistent. it makes sense to me that cards like township and wolf run were meant to be run in constructed environments with far heavier densities of duals than cube could ever have, and even then playing more than a couple copies (say of vault of the archangel in GWB standard rites) is a liability. in return for inconsistency you get power, which is an interesting dynamic when subtle enough, but a number of these lands have either been winning the game through 'getting online' or losing the game by color-screwing their controllers.
i guess i'm just kvetching because cube has felt less interactive since i tossed these in, almost like the extra decisions have simplified the games by reducing the psychological element. or something. spells feel less important. it's late.
so how to deal with this? we could go for only lands with more marginal upsides and downsides -- an extreme example is the cycle of 'legends matter' cards from kamigawa -- but then i'd naturally want to push it further to justify the extra time of doing such a draft, so then where would i draw the line? (cycle lands seem to offer a good upside / downside dynamic?) so cipt is bad but colorless is worse. maybe i'm including too many of these (though nobody has to play them, which is another issue i won't fully get into here). ugh i dunno what to do.
edit: kind of going off what i was saying in the graveyard hate thread, the gameplay feels repetitious when dem lands are dictating the game. building around this has given me more of an appreciation for why wizards is really scared of this kind of experience.
jason: have you had similar issues? come in here and talk me off a ledge, i think i just want to cap the power at like township, toss in more metaphorical 'cyclers' / 'trinket mage targets,' reduce the amount of available lands to 4/person, and go from there
in all actuality i love this idea but its implementation has been a bit problematic. not in the sense of acquiring the lands or putting em on the table or drafting em or putting em in the decks, which is fun, but jesus some of these things are powerful. like what do you do when a control deck is looping baleful strix with academy ruins? any dude with volrath's stronghold? fogging you with kor haven? i'm not ready to give up on the idea yet, not at all, but some kind of power cap is probably necessary.
the flip-side is that, though since the colorless lands are out the main cube and aren't taking the 'spot' of fixing, there's now a bunch more of them and they get played and mana-bases paradoxically end up less consistent. it makes sense to me that cards like township and wolf run were meant to be run in constructed environments with far heavier densities of duals than cube could ever have, and even then playing more than a couple copies (say of vault of the archangel in GWB standard rites) is a liability. in return for inconsistency you get power, which is an interesting dynamic when subtle enough, but a number of these lands have either been winning the game through 'getting online' or losing the game by color-screwing their controllers.
i guess i'm just kvetching because cube has felt less interactive since i tossed these in, almost like the extra decisions have simplified the games by reducing the psychological element. or something. spells feel less important. it's late.
so how to deal with this? we could go for only lands with more marginal upsides and downsides -- an extreme example is the cycle of 'legends matter' cards from kamigawa -- but then i'd naturally want to push it further to justify the extra time of doing such a draft, so then where would i draw the line? (cycle lands seem to offer a good upside / downside dynamic?) so cipt is bad but colorless is worse. maybe i'm including too many of these (though nobody has to play them, which is another issue i won't fully get into here). ugh i dunno what to do.
edit: kind of going off what i was saying in the graveyard hate thread, the gameplay feels repetitious when dem lands are dictating the game. building around this has given me more of an appreciation for why wizards is really scared of this kind of experience.
jason: have you had similar issues? come in here and talk me off a ledge, i think i just want to cap the power at like township, toss in more metaphorical 'cyclers' / 'trinket mage targets,' reduce the amount of available lands to 4/person, and go from there
CML
Contributor
new list (idea -- each drafter takes 4, 1/2/1) -- thoughts?
w (6)
eiganjo castle
karakas
kjeldoran outpost
windbrisk heights
vivid meadow
ancient den
u (6)
cephalid coliseum
faerie conclave
shelldock isle
seat of the synod
halimar depths
vivid creek
b (6)
phyrexian tower
barren moor
shizo, death’s storehouse
urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
bojuka bog
vivid marsh
r (6)
shinka, the bloodsoaked keep
forgotten cave
barbarian ring
kher keep
ghitu encampment
vivid crag
g (6)
dryad arbor
pendelhaven
tranquil thicket
treetop village
gaea's cradle
vivid meadow
x (5)
dust bowl
miren, the moaning well
wasteland
tectonic edge
ancient tomb
m (10)
river of tears
desolate lighthouse
gavony township
kessig wolf run
moorland haunt
nephalia drownyard
slayers’ stronghold
vault of the archangel
thawing glaciers
krosan verge
w (6)
eiganjo castle
karakas
kjeldoran outpost
windbrisk heights
vivid meadow
ancient den
u (6)
cephalid coliseum
faerie conclave
shelldock isle
seat of the synod
halimar depths
vivid creek
b (6)
phyrexian tower
barren moor
shizo, death’s storehouse
urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
bojuka bog
vivid marsh
r (6)
shinka, the bloodsoaked keep
forgotten cave
barbarian ring
kher keep
ghitu encampment
vivid crag
g (6)
dryad arbor
pendelhaven
tranquil thicket
treetop village
gaea's cradle
vivid meadow
x (5)
dust bowl
miren, the moaning well
wasteland
tectonic edge
ancient tomb
m (10)
river of tears
desolate lighthouse
gavony township
kessig wolf run
moorland haunt
nephalia drownyard
slayers’ stronghold
vault of the archangel
thawing glaciers
krosan verge
When I used Kher Keep, I kept copies of these ugly-ass guys around:
Your list looks pretty solid. I do wonder how often Pendelhaven is relevant, but since it ETB untapped I suppose there's a pretty low bar.
Your list looks pretty solid. I do wonder how often Pendelhaven is relevant, but since it ETB untapped I suppose there's a pretty low bar.
I got to try the utility land draft for the first time today. While my group was a little skeptical at first - partly due to the quality of the lands, which you'll see for yourselves - they quickly got on board after the first round of picks. Most of the monocolour lands saw some play, and the fixing were in high demand, though a lot of the Innistrad two-colour lands were a bust. All in all, I'd call this first run a success. Thank you again for the stellar idea, Jason!
So, here's where I need you guys to help me with my list. I'm trying hard to stick with my Modern restriction, and while that constraint's never been a problem with the rest of my cube, man alive is it card to come up with a good list of usable non-basics. I'm already breaking this restriction with Barren Moor, and I feel like I might have to go further. I dunno. Help me out!
Eiganjo Castle
Windbrisk Heights
Faerie Conclave
Halimar Depths
Barren Moor
Bojuka Bog
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Ghitu Encampment
Keldon Megaliths
Teetering Peeks
Dryad Arbor
Mosswort Bridge
Pendelhaven
Alchemist's Refuge
Moorland Haunt
Nephalia Drownyard
Grove of the Guardian
Vault of the Archangel
Desolate Lighthouse
Slayers' Stronghold
Tectonic Edge
Tectonic Edge
Tectonic Edge
Blackcleave Cliffs
Copperline Gorge
Darkslick Shores
Seachrome Coast
Stirring Wildwood
Battlefield Forge
Caves of Koilos
Llanowar Wastes
Shivan Reef
Yavimaya Coast
Cavern of Souls
Exotic Orchard
Evolving Wilds
Reflecting Pool
Transguild Promenade
So, here's where I need you guys to help me with my list. I'm trying hard to stick with my Modern restriction, and while that constraint's never been a problem with the rest of my cube, man alive is it card to come up with a good list of usable non-basics. I'm already breaking this restriction with Barren Moor, and I feel like I might have to go further. I dunno. Help me out!
Eiganjo Castle
Windbrisk Heights
Faerie Conclave
Halimar Depths
Barren Moor
Bojuka Bog
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Ghitu Encampment
Keldon Megaliths
Teetering Peeks
Dryad Arbor
Mosswort Bridge
Pendelhaven
Alchemist's Refuge
Moorland Haunt
Nephalia Drownyard
Grove of the Guardian
Vault of the Archangel
Desolate Lighthouse
Slayers' Stronghold
Tectonic Edge
Tectonic Edge
Tectonic Edge
Blackcleave Cliffs
Copperline Gorge
Darkslick Shores
Seachrome Coast
Stirring Wildwood
Battlefield Forge
Caves of Koilos
Llanowar Wastes
Shivan Reef
Yavimaya Coast
Cavern of Souls
Exotic Orchard
Evolving Wilds
Reflecting Pool
Transguild Promenade
Also, I find that calling out my intentions to the world after pack 1 by plopping a Faerie Conclave in front of me is a bit.. off-putting. I much prefer the guessing game of trying to puzzle out what my neighbours are doing, and then summoning the intestinal fortitude to dive into a third splash colour in the middle of the second pack.
That's the main (and really, only) downside I see with the utility land draft. Do you guys find this to be an issue?
That's the main (and really, only) downside I see with the utility land draft. Do you guys find this to be an issue?
Are some of the Innistrad lands in your main cube?