Article ChannelFireball: Utility Land Draft
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
I just added Trinket Mage, which of course is always a fine include if you've got a few artifact lands.
They're mostly there to help give more ways to turn on Thopter Spy Network and for ramping with Tezzeret the Seeker, who can untap them or drop them on the board with his -0 (pair with Fertile Ground for an extra-spicy equation). It's a really fun little ramp package that doubles as a win-con with Tezzy's ultimate. We love it over here (though again, capping artifact land picks at 6 is an option I keep considering to reign in that ult strategy and make the deck require a bit more strategic thought; really not sure if it's necessary yet, though).
Aoret
Developer
That sounds fun 
Maybe I'll give TtS a go!
I just put in a couple of Fertile Ground-like customs in. Sadly, I customed it up as being Enchant forest instead of enchant land to make up for it granting hexproof. With the omnipresence of wasteland in my cube with this experiment I'm running, I had to come up with a way to make it not be a complete feel bad for drafters. At the same time, I didn't really want people using it to give Creeping Tar Pit hexproof. Hmm... maybe it's good enough without TtS being able to make 3-4 mana from his +1? I have to imagine it is
Maybe I'll give TtS a go!I just put in a couple of Fertile Ground-like customs in. Sadly, I customed it up as being Enchant forest instead of enchant land to make up for it granting hexproof. With the omnipresence of wasteland in my cube with this experiment I'm running, I had to come up with a way to make it not be a complete feel bad for drafters. At the same time, I didn't really want people using it to give Creeping Tar Pit hexproof. Hmm... maybe it's good enough without TtS being able to make 3-4 mana from his +1? I have to imagine it is
That sounds fun
I just put in a couple of Fertile Ground-like customs in. Sadly, I customed it up as being Enchant forest instead of enchant land to make up for it granting hexproof. With the omnipresence of wasteland in my cube with this experiment I'm running, I had to come up with a way to make it not be a complete feel bad for drafters. At the same time, I didn't really want people using it to give Creeping Tar Pit hexproof. Hmm... maybe it's good enough without TtS being able to make 3-4 mana from his +1? I have to imagine it is
Yeah, I find him really awesome even without Fertile Ground. At that point he's essentially a weaker, blue Gilded Lotus that is part win-con, part tutor, and part speedbump (players tend to zero in on him because his ultimate is so attainable), which is still a pretty sweet place to be.
That sounds fun
I just put in a couple of Fertile Ground-like customs in. Sadly, I customed it up as being Enchant forest instead of enchant land to make up for it granting hexproof. With the omnipresence of wasteland in my cube with this experiment I'm running, I had to come up with a way to make it not be a complete feel bad for drafters. At the same time, I didn't really want people using it to give Creeping Tar Pit hexproof. Hmm... maybe it's good enough without TtS being able to make 3-4 mana from his +1? I have to imagine it is
Why do they need to give he proof? Just play them on your basics. Unless they do other cool thing. Like untap the land? Once per turn?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Pete Townsend is a cool planeswalker
Laz
Developer
How are people handling picks and multi-picks at the moment?
I have been back and forth between a pick after each pack, everyone grabs at the end, and 2 picks after pack 2, then 1 or 2 picks after pack 3. All of them work out ok, and now my drafters are trained, none of them take too long. We have implemented a simple 'roll-off' system for contested picks, which saves worrying about order.
Multi-picks is not something I have explored too deeply. Obviously not all lands were created equal, but how do you handle the logistics of that?
I have been back and forth between a pick after each pack, everyone grabs at the end, and 2 picks after pack 2, then 1 or 2 picks after pack 3. All of them work out ok, and now my drafters are trained, none of them take too long. We have implemented a simple 'roll-off' system for contested picks, which saves worrying about order.
Multi-picks is not something I have explored too deeply. Obviously not all lands were created equal, but how do you handle the logistics of that?
Aoret
Developer
That's actually an excellent point. To be honest I hadn't even considered it.
I think when my playgroup "grows up" a bit that's probably a great way to go. At the moment though these folks are seeing wasteland for the first time (and they'll continue to undervalue it until I learn to properly abuse it). As such, it's probably still correct for me to kinda put the training wheels on the enchant. I do also run some straight LD in red, so that's probably a more legitimate reason to run a hexproof version.
Oh yeah I was wondering if you run Land Distruction. I'm about to add Pillage back in, I believe.
We do picks after all boosters are drafted. Picking lands midway kinda gave away what everyone was drafting and since we Glimpse Draft, it made it easier to decide what to burn/hate out of the draft.
We roll dice and go in order of high roll -> low. Occasionally someone is bummed they missed a really sweet land, but that's life.
For multipicks, we have 4 of each artifact land (actually I think just 3 of a few, need to doublecheck that later) and you may spend 1 pick taking any 2.
For the 3Cloud/2Glimmerpost set, you spend 3 picks to get the lot. You then sit out those picks.
We just recently decided to make Radiant Fountain and cycle lands worth half a pick each (so you'd take 2 during your pick turn, of course), because they're really unpopular over here since we tend to be scared of ETBT lands. I'm sure they'll prove to be worthwhile eventually, but we just have so many other lands that tend to win out, or we decide to pass to keep our curve-outs in tact.
My list is in some serious need of updating. Help me. Are the Cloudposts dumb? They feel super gimmicky to me right now. I'm kind of embarased by them.
Nobody ever runs High Market or Cathedral of War, right? What about Contested War Zone? What fixing should I run? Was the "Temple of <choice>" thing dumb? Should there be ZEN manlands?
Is Blighted Cataract worth running? Does Academy Ruins have a home in this list?
Nobody ever runs High Market or Cathedral of War, right? What about Contested War Zone? What fixing should I run? Was the "Temple of <choice>" thing dumb? Should there be ZEN manlands?
Is Blighted Cataract worth running? Does Academy Ruins have a home in this list?
The thing I noticed with my drafters is that they went straight to the temples if they didn't pick up enough fixing. I'm inclined to drop any dual lands and force the players to choose fixing through drafting. Part of the fun isn't it?
Artifact Lands I have pick two + Darksteel Citadel. No one ever picks the green one, but blue/white/red artifacts is a thing. I have the green one in there because I'm a cycle whore. Ruins has place if you support even minimal artifact I think.
If you are including cards like Smothering Abomination I think High Market has its place in the ULD. These cards are meant to be 'fringe' after all.
Artifact Lands I have pick two + Darksteel Citadel. No one ever picks the green one, but blue/white/red artifacts is a thing. I have the green one in there because I'm a cycle whore. Ruins has place if you support even minimal artifact I think.
If you are including cards like Smothering Abomination I think High Market has its place in the ULD. These cards are meant to be 'fringe' after all.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I think all of the Blighted cycle is playable, even the white one. In a dedicated deck it's easy to gain 8 or more off of a land, that's pretty insane!
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Cloudpost doesn't sound dumb to me, but I'm underexposed. Is it kinda a 0 effort ramp deck, where you draft a bunch of high cost stuff, take ULD picks that nobody else wants and then have a competent deck?
I don't see much reason to run High Market if Phyrexian Tower is available, and I'm not sure I'd want both in a deck. Cathedral maybe in double strike?
Contested war zone seems high risk high reward. You don't really like tokens, so maybe it sends a bad signal?
Zen Manlands seem REALLY strong for ULD picks. Like even lumbering falls is a strong "Freebie"
Blighted lands seem a little low power for your cube, but they do make nice noncommital picks. Kinda like cycling lands?
Academy Ruins seems like a strong pick if you have a single solid artifact to recur in your deck, I'd keep it unless you think it's too strong. Goes well with the cloudposts, naturally.
If you run Cloudposts, do we like:
3 Glimmer / 2 Cloud
or
3 Cloud / 2 Glimmer
3 Glimmer / 2 Cloud
or
3 Cloud / 2 Glimmer
I like Blighted Woodland because it works so well with all of my high-end green threats. To quote the other thread:
Blighted Fen also seems like it is workable, but I haven't tested it.
I'm really not sold on Blighted lands being "low power level." These lands are giving you, on average, a 3-mana effect (Harrow, Divination) or a legitimate creature removal spell (Edict, Shock) on a LAND, and more than that, on a land that enters untapped and only needs one color to activate. They have been VERY popular in our playgroup.
In re: the Cloud/Glimmer question, I run 4 of each so that if two people want to run Post decks, they can do that without one person getting hatedrafted. We get a wide variety of decks that use Posts for various things, and they perform decent-good without feeling unfair. My favorite so far was an RB midrange Post deck that used Glimmer to gain life for Black life-pay effects and Cloud to pump up Tempt With Vengeance and Profane Command.
In re: the Cloud/Glimmer question, I run 4 of each so that if two people want to run Post decks, they can do that without one person getting hatedrafted. We get a wide variety of decks that use Posts for various things, and they perform decent-good without feeling unfair. My favorite so far was an RB midrange Post deck that used Glimmer to gain life for Black life-pay effects and Cloud to pump up Tempt With Vengeance and Profane Command.
How are your posts drafted?
They are in with the other lands (my cube uses a Land Draft, not just a Utility Land Draft) and you draft one at a time, one per pick, just like the other lands.
We are still developing how the (U)LD as a whole is run 'cuz we just started doing it 2 sessions ago.
We are still developing how the (U)LD as a whole is run 'cuz we just started doing it 2 sessions ago.
My list is in some serious need of updating. Help me. Are the Cloudposts dumb? They feel super gimmicky to me right now. I'm kind of embarased by them.
Nobody ever runs High Market or Cathedral of War, right? What about Contested War Zone? What fixing should I run? Was the "Temple of <choice>" thing dumb? Should there be ZEN manlands?
Is Blighted Cataract worth running? Does Academy Ruins have a home in this list?
I've never tried Cathedral of War, but people still draft High Market and Contested War Zone. As Chris said, because of Phyrexian Tower, High Market doesn't go quite as often, but since Tower is picked kinda high it's good to have a backup. The way my cube is built currently, it's not unusual for two people to be on the sac plan.
Aggro in general usually doesn't have quite as many interesting choices from the ULD, so I like Contested War Zone as a real option for them. It can add up to a lot of damage, goes well with the double strike theme, creates a fun mini-game, and is basically a mana sink.
I don't use the scry lands for the same reasons Kuldahar stated: I want people to mostly fight over good fixing during the regular draft.
Since I do squadroning, I realized that it made more sense to include the loci and artifact lands as special group picks as part of the normal draft. Drafting Darksteel Citadel grants you one of each of the colored ones, and drafting Cloudpost provides another Cloudpost, two Glimmerposts and a Vesuva.
I took some of your advice on my ULD, so currently it looks like this. (Warning: it is large)
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Jesus Quad Mishra's Factory
I run 3x Cloud/2x Glimmer, and it counts as 3 Picks to get the whole lot at once (out of 4). It's a cool little strategy and I don't find it ever being too powerful in my experience.
All the blighted lands are worth it.
Re: manlands, I run Stirring Wildwood, Nantuko Monastery, Shambling Vent, and Lumbering Falls. I may add more later or move them into the main draft at some point, but I'm not sure. I like the WG ones as tools to spice up the Knight of the Reliquary deck and they haven't been too scary here yet for me to care. That said I also have Gavony Township and Vault of the Archangel in my ULD so I am pretty generous in my ULD section
All the blighted lands are worth it.
Re: manlands, I run Stirring Wildwood, Nantuko Monastery, Shambling Vent, and Lumbering Falls. I may add more later or move them into the main draft at some point, but I'm not sure. I like the WG ones as tools to spice up the Knight of the Reliquary deck and they haven't been too scary here yet for me to care. That said I also have Gavony Township and Vault of the Archangel in my ULD so I am pretty generous in my ULD section
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Okay, I definitely don't want ot be running more than 6 of a single monocolor. Which lands would you guys cut for Blighted White and Blighted Blue?