Article ChannelFireball: Utility Land Draft

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blacksmithy

I may be designing from a childish POV, but i dont really like the draft tension of fixing vs bombs. Like, if im in UB and see a polluted delta and, say, Trinket Mage in the same pack, that makes me a sad panda. The fixing is probably the right pick but thats just so lame!
I do like the tension of duals vs utility lands though. I feel like its a more natural dichotomy... Or something like that
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
blacksmithy said:
I may be designing from a childish POV, but i dont really like the draft tension of fixing vs bombs. Like, if im in UB and see a polluted delta and, say, Trinket Mage in the same pack, that makes me a sad panda. The fixing is probably the right pick but thats just so lame!
I do like the tension of duals vs utility lands though. I feel like its a more natural dichotomy... Or something like that
Click to expand...

In my experience there are very few utility lands that are actually worth picking up over a dual. Constructed has given us plenty of evidence to this effect over the years.
 
Rasmus Källqvist

Rasmus Källqvist

blacksmithy said:
I may be designing from a childish POV, but i dont really like the draft tension of fixing vs bombs. Like, if im in UB and see a polluted delta and, say, Trinket Mage in the same pack, that makes me a sad panda. The fixing is probably the right pick but thats just so lame!
I do like the tension of duals vs utility lands though. I feel like its a more natural dichotomy... Or something like that
Click to expand...

Can't we make an argument for on color duals and fetches to be a bomb?
 
Aoret

Aoret

Developer
Rasmus Källqvist said:
Can't we make an argument for on color duals and fetches to be a bomb?
Click to expand...
Which is a big reason that I'm probably gonna cut my dual count back down. This is despite my initial excitement about adding in another 10 duals when I removed my 20 fetches and made them free 4-ofs in my "basic land" stack.

I've found myself thinking "eh, there's two more copies of this shock floating around, who cares if I take the trinket mage?" and that makes me a sad panda. Before I cut back down to 20 shocks, I'm trying 10 ABU duals, 20 shocks just to see if I can rebuy the excitement/pressure of seeing the dual. I suspect I'll land at 10 ABU 10 shocks though; that has the combined effect of helping control (which is badly needed atm for me) while also putting a ton of pressure on you when you see your dual land or shock land, knowing it is the only copy available.

@blacksmithy I'd say that yes, you're probably clouded by the magic player in you wanting to have your cake and eat it too. When I have my cube designer hat on, I think it's fairly clear cut that anything that makes the draft/play experience more decision dense and/or skill intensive is good for the cube. That's a bit subjective in that it's based on my definition of what cube "should be," but I think there's a pretty strong argument to be made for it.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

I think I see both sides of the land debate argument. My own feeling is that most cubes don't run enough fixing (more so with non-Riptide cubes). That's been true IMO since day one where fixing in cube was much closer to limited fixing than constructed, and yet the power level and speed of cube decks is way closer to constructed. That never felt right to me.

I've seen too many games end with mana issues (even one turn can put you in a losing position). And while there is an argument that people need to become better drafters and/or less greedy with spells, I really don't think that explains it all. As a result, I run more fixing than most cubes (6 cycles now I think at 450).

But there's taking the fixing thing too far IMO. I agree that people should have to prioritize it during drafts. More importantly though, the more fixing you have the easier it is to build a top tier "good stuff " deck because it's easier to just run 3+ colors and grab all the bombs from each color. That dovetails back to earlier discussions about how successful we want goodstuff.dec to be.

I'm not against fixing in a ULD, but having it all there might be going a little overboard. I don't know though as I've never tried. And ultimately, if goodstuff.dec isn't a problem in your meta with all fixing in the ULD, and the group likes it that way, I say more power to you. It probably makes decks more focused and powerful and so I can see the appeal.
 
Aoret

Aoret

Developer
ahadabans said:
More importantly though, the more fixing you have the easier it is to build a top tier "good stuff " deck because it's easier to just run 3+ colors and grab all the bombs from each color.
Click to expand...

I suspect the reason most people experience this is that they increase the quantity of fixing while keeping their LD land count the same.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Okay, I'm running Terramorphic and Evolving Wilds, but holy shit, why have we never run these?



These are the perfect power level for ULD, no?
 
Laz

Laz

Developer
Or that, but that might take some convincing for my regular cube group.

Anyway, you were wanting to sneak more fetches into your drafts, these seem like a good option. I was running the Panoramas for a while, and they were popular without being oppressive. These seem like a similar power level.
 
shamizy

shamizy

As far as the slow fetches go, personally I prefer to keep all my dual color fixing (fetches, shocks, etc.) in the main draft portion of the Cube. I guess it's worth a try sometime in ULD if you can scrounge up copies. The only thing turning me off would be that they aren't all in modern frame and a lot of the old ones look kinda gross to me.
 
Diakonov

Diakonov

OK, so after readjusting, these are the non-basics in the main (not counting usual duals).



The last two represent squad-picks.

My revised ULD now looks like this. The power level is clearly lower but flatter.

 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
If you could include another <choice> (e.g. Temple of <choice>) fixing slot, which would be the most interesting? (hopefully affordable to buy the entire cycle)
 
Aston

Aston

Probably something a bit more aggro-friendly, either painlands or Scars of Mirrodin lands

e: or a whole cycle of Horizon Canopies, that card is sweet.
 
vennythekid

vennythekid

I ran a <fastland of choice> slot alongside two <temple of choice> slots for a long time in my ULD. I have since cut them both, as they were consistent first round picks every draft, to the point where players stopped drafting proper fixing from the main cube. Don't get me wrong, the fastlands are awesome multicolor aggro and everyone enjoyed playing them, but I think they're too strong fixing to be considered "utility".

If you do want more fixing, I think the filter lands (Fire-Lit Thicket, etc) would be sweet. They let you curve C into BB for multicolor decks, and present (some) land sequencing choices that could be interesting.
 
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