Damn, Rebecca Guay killing it again
Sets Commander 2016 Spoilers
- Thread starter StormEntity
- Start date
I think a little bit much in general. Turns an alpha strike into suicide, with no prior knowledge. Doesn't need to stick on the battlefield through combat to prevent the damage. Ridiculously efficient for white (let through Polukranos, flash in a 6/6, take no damage)
It's pretty conditional though. It turns an alpha strike into suicide in some situations when your opponent has 4 mana up, and you don't have access to a removal spell at instant speed, and they have the ability to crack back for lethal (ie they have the same or higher life total than you to start with)
Yeah the card has some serious blowout potential, but that's okay sometimes. It's okay to take some of the value and game equity out of grinding and reallocate it to narrow windows of interaction, where you either are ready to interact with this thing or it won't go well for you. This does, however, require that people be prepared to interact on that axis at the appropriate time, which perhaps means the answers must be strong. This runs counter to the idea of powering down removal spells to enable different threats, but all it is is just running everything backwards--juicing up removal to facilitate more narrow windows of interaction.
On another note: Deepglow Skate seems like the Gilder Bairn we've all been waiting for. Can't wait to see some jank combo shenanigans here.
Yeah the card has some serious blowout potential, but that's okay sometimes. It's okay to take some of the value and game equity out of grinding and reallocate it to narrow windows of interaction, where you either are ready to interact with this thing or it won't go well for you. This does, however, require that people be prepared to interact on that axis at the appropriate time, which perhaps means the answers must be strong. This runs counter to the idea of powering down removal spells to enable different threats, but all it is is just running everything backwards--juicing up removal to facilitate more narrow windows of interaction.
On another note: Deepglow Skate seems like the Gilder Bairn we've all been waiting for. Can't wait to see some jank combo shenanigans here.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
I say this a lot but I'm about ready to create a new Cube or overhaul my main one just to play with all the sweet cards they print in these extra sets
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Thats a really nice framing of my issue with overly spikey design: that it tends to focus on maximizing game equity, and that the means often selected to achieve that is to encourage slow grindy elements, at the obscurification of any other game pacing.
If you really love the pure process of the game, thats probably fine, but for other players that don't excel at or enjoy those particular processes, it can become mundane or unmotivating.
That being said, I hate squire.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Easy!
Edit: Changed Fling to Rite of Consumption so all the cards are on color!!!!1!!one!!1!!one1!!!
Hey! This replaces Workhorse and Unexpected Potential in my combo! Sweet!Love Reyhan
《Crystalline Crawler》 (4)
Converge; Crystalline Crawler enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each color of mana spent to cast it.
Remove a +1/+1 counter from Crystalline Crawler：Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
(Ｔ)：Put a +1/+1 counter on Crystalline Crawler.
Whoof. Lemme tell ya, a month straight of jewish holidays will take its toll on anyone. Thank goodness I can put that behind me. I'm a huge commander player, so a lot of this set excites me for the commander format- however, probably what I'm most into so far cube-wise are those sweet landcycling cards. I'd happily pay 1 more mana for the flexibility of fixing, and I'm eager to see how the cycle is completed. 6 mana reanimate w/haste isn't even that bad in middling power cubes.
I'm working on a more synergistic 'riptide-style' cube that will likely be ready to present sometime around Kaladesh 2: Electric Boogaloo, and I'm really excited to have these as good options for mid-power fixing.
I'm working on a more synergistic 'riptide-style' cube that will likely be ready to present sometime around Kaladesh 2: Electric Boogaloo, and I'm really excited to have these as good options for mid-power fixing.
Deepglow Skate looks really fun and really busted at the same time. As a T5 play, it hits perfectly after that T4 control 'walker, and allows an easy ult. Is that something we can reasonably allow in an environment, I wonder? My instinct says this is that typical "too good to be true" Commander-style card, that looks super fun but is actually just "fun" because it's absurdly strong (see: Pathbreaker Ibex, Mystic Confluence). Regardless, I'm interested to see how the rest of the set shakes out! I may pick these decks up to play with my draft partners, they look spicy and exciting already.
As an aside (since I have nowhere else to put this), I've just found out about Scryfall, which is a cool new card search engine that adds spoilers as they come and lays out cards beautifully (it's also lightning-fast and runs smoothly, which I'm loving already). They have a reddit thread here that they're answering questions on, but they've got a lot of amazing features that look easy to learn and use, so if you're a bit sick of magiccards.info updating so slowly (like me), or find their search functions a little wonky (ditto), you may want to give it a shot!
As an aside (since I have nowhere else to put this), I've just found out about Scryfall, which is a cool new card search engine that adds spoilers as they come and lays out cards beautifully (it's also lightning-fast and runs smoothly, which I'm loving already). They have a reddit thread here that they're answering questions on, but they've got a lot of amazing features that look easy to learn and use, so if you're a bit sick of magiccards.info updating so slowly (like me), or find their search functions a little wonky (ditto), you may want to give it a shot!
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Isn't Deepglow Skate sort of a Volt Charge? If that card is okay in your cube, I suspect the Skate is fine as well. The potential upside is higher, but it's also more expensive and doesn't act as removal.
Also, am I wrong to be excited for this Civic Saber upgrade?
Isn't Deepglow Skate sort of a Volt Charge? If that card is okay in your cube, I suspect the Skate is fine as well. The potential upside is higher, but it's also more expensive and doesn't act as removal.
Also, am I wrong to be excited for this Civic Saber upgrade?
Deepglow Skate doesn't proliferate - it doubles counters. That's virtually always going to end in an ulting planeswalker, if one's on the board. Proliferate is techy tool for cranking up 'walkers by 1 loyalty for "free", whereas Deepglow Skate is going to be directly leading into T5 ults.
I like Conqueror's Flail in theory, but I'm not sure if that's an effect I want or need in my environment. It'd obviously do some cool stuff in your cube, of course
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Oops. Failed to RTFC!
I am very intrigued by the flail. Is the Abolisher effect too good against countermagic when it's on an equipment? This would be brutal against a control deck that leaned heavier Counters over Removal.
I'll probably at least test this in place of Trusty Machete, maybe.
I'll probably at least test this in place of Trusty Machete, maybe.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, it certainly asks for artifact removal. Or, you know, a counterspell on the equipment
I'm not sure how I feel about Conqueror's flail. It's no small thing to lock out an entire archetype for 2 mana plus attach cost. Depending on the control color combo it may not be able to remove it at all if it hits. (U/B comes to mind)
Sure, you can argue that they 'should have had a counterspell for it,' but punishing those decks for tapping out for, say, a looter T2 by -literally making half their cards useless- seems a bit strong. At least you can kill Abolisher. I'm going to pass on this effect, probably.
Deepglow Skate is a bit too feast/famine for me. I think that when it hits, it's going to create Natural Order levels of salt, which is something I'm trying to avoid.
Don't get me wrong, I love both the cards for what they are, but personally I'm passing on them for my cubes.
Sure, you can argue that they 'should have had a counterspell for it,' but punishing those decks for tapping out for, say, a looter T2 by -literally making half their cards useless- seems a bit strong. At least you can kill Abolisher. I'm going to pass on this effect, probably.
Deepglow Skate is a bit too feast/famine for me. I think that when it hits, it's going to create Natural Order levels of salt, which is something I'm trying to avoid.
Don't get me wrong, I love both the cards for what they are, but personally I'm passing on them for my cubes.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
has discard and counterspells to proactively remove it, and bounce + counterspells to clear it from play after it hits. Besides, does it really lock out the deck? You might not be able to cast your Fact or Fiction, Heroic Downfall and Torrential Gearhulk for full value, but they still work, and cards like Dragonlord Silumgar and Crux of Fate aren't even affected. I think you're too afraid of the effect. I know I am going to try it out, the number of equipment that manages to straddle the fine line between underwhelming and broken is small enough as it is.I guess the issue is it forces UB control, among others, into very tight and limited windows of interaction. Sure, if you have the discard spell T1/2, sure if you leave mana open at the right time for a counter, sure if you draw Languish in time. But if you can't, you are operating at like 35% efficiency until you can find a solution. Meanwhile the opponent can develop their board far beyond what the Counter suite would normally allow. This means you probably don't have that long to even find your solution.
Those tightened interaction window/puzzles for control might be good for some formats, but if aggro is at all healthy in a format, I could see it tilting the matchup quite a bit.
Still thinking about testing it, but it definitely is a massive hurdle for certain decks to overcome.
I'm with Gifts. I kind of hate these "off/on" hate cards like Grand Abolisher, Stony Silence, Rest in Piece or whatever. I know no one is advocating for the latter two but Conqueror's Flail seems in a similar ball park, and it's only in the discussion because the type of deck it hates on occurs more often in cube than the other two. I'd much rather have cards which give some counter-play.
Conqueror's Flail is especially egregious to me because the thing that it hates on, instant-speed interaction, is one of the aspects of Magic that I think makes it such a great game.
Conqueror's Flail is especially egregious to me because the thing that it hates on, instant-speed interaction, is one of the aspects of Magic that I think makes it such a great game.
Not just the above, but theres still the ability to kill the creature it's attatched to. then counterspell away on the next creature they play. I'm mixed on it myself, but it'll probably make it to one of the testing slots.
I'll concede that my tendency to play control makes me more skittish than normal about this card, and that my worst fears may be overblown. I just feel that, (especially in a token deck where the control player may be forced to spend a card to remove an otherwise 1/1 token) it can be especially egregious.
Please, let me know what your testing reveals when it happens. Just because I'm initially dismissive does not mean I hate the card, or that I can't change my mind.
I like... all of these?
Ravos, Soultender -
Raise Dead/anthem flier seems pretty rad, and I love the art.Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker -
flying half-a-Managorger Hydra is neat if you like Protect the Queen strategies, but idk if it's quite strong enough for my tastes.Parting Thoughts has some cool counterplay in cubes with +1/+1 counter themes.