General Custom Cards: The Lab
- Thread starter anotak
- Start date
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
And not anywhere else it seems
Would someone like to help me finish these designs?
I have two D&D flavored creatures.
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Card 1: Uncommon rarity creature. Monocolored. Signal card. I am thinking either white, blue or green.
Whenever you cast an Adventure, create a Food token.
Whenever you venture into the dungeon, create a Clue token.
Whenever you complete a dungeon, create a Treasure token.
Missing: Name, Cost, creature type, power, toughness, art.
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Card 2: Common rarity creature. Monocolored. I am thinking green.
Short Rest // Prepared Adventurer
Sorcery - Adventure: Create a Food token, scry 1.
When Prepared Adventurer enters the battlefield, venture into the dungeon.
Missing: Cost, creature type, power, toughness, art.
I have two D&D flavored creatures.
--
Card 1: Uncommon rarity creature. Monocolored. Signal card. I am thinking either white, blue or green.
Whenever you cast an Adventure, create a Food token.
Whenever you venture into the dungeon, create a Clue token.
Whenever you complete a dungeon, create a Treasure token.
Missing: Name, Cost, creature type, power, toughness, art.
--
Card 2: Common rarity creature. Monocolored. I am thinking green.
Short Rest // Prepared Adventurer
Sorcery - Adventure: Create a Food token, scry 1.
When Prepared Adventurer enters the battlefield, venture into the dungeon.
Missing: Cost, creature type, power, toughness, art.
I abhor card types that one cannot interact with like emblems, dungeon etc. Are you sure you want to go that route? The balancing is really difficult since you add another parameter and it depends on the power of the dungeon.
Veteran Dungeoneer isn't really fundamentally more difficult to interact with than Jewel Thief or Phyrexian Rager. Completing a dungeon doesn't end in a room that says "You win the game", it just produces a selection of spell-like effects that impacts the game state just like mostly any other card.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Fuck me I had this whole thing typed up and this is the point I was trying to make in like 1/10th the words
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Here's my first draft. I think Durnan deserves a flavor text of some kind, he's the owner of the Yawning Portal inn and a lord of waterdeep, but I'm unfamiliar with the source material and there's not a ton on his wiki page. This might just be one of those things where people who have played a lot of D&D will recognize him and tell the other people at the table, so you won't need to try too hard.
He could also be a 1/2 for G to match Edgewall Innkeeper.
I think I've pitched these appropriately power level wise, these feel like retail common/uncommons to me but my radar is off, my cube's a lot more eternal format focused than this so I am notably out of my element.
If you need these modified, I've got em saved so just let me know.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I'm on a "replace every DFC" spree, and I'm pretty okay with axing most of them, but cutting Jace, Vryn's Prodigy hurts!
I know I'm losing the shrinking ability, but there's less space on SFC's, you know Based off of Underworld Breach, exiling three cards seems to be the sweet spot?
The other card I'm really going to miss is Legion's Landing, which incidentally is awesome with the new RW celebration mechanic, as well as the already existing WB sacrifice theme. Maybe something like this?
I know I'm losing the shrinking ability, but there's less space on SFC's, you know
Based off of Underworld Breach, exiling three cards seems to be the sweet spot?The other card I'm really going to miss is Legion's Landing, which incidentally is awesome with the new RW celebration mechanic, as well as the already existing WB sacrifice theme. Maybe something like this?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Personally I just run 2x snapcaster mage
I do like both of these designs, and I might even steal servo station given I run tokens and artifacts as themes in white.
You think it's a bug or a feature this lets you lightning bolt something 4 times if you have the juice?
@Rusje
I wholeheartely agree and I thank you for the warning. However I do not agree that there is anything wrong with the dungeon mechanic besides the burden on complexity which admittingly is high.
Thank you @Mown
@Chris Taylor
Nice! I think it’s a good idea to have that creature that cares about both Adventure and venturing be an important character. And also not someone who would venture themself. So legendary noble is a great creature type for this!
Would you people say Edgewall is a town that could have a mayor or is it just an inn?
I already run both Edgewall Innkeeper and Prosperous Innkeeper. I think you are right with the flavor text also! I’m imagining he is some kind of NPC who gives out quests. Maybe something like “Go forth, brave heroes. May you return safe and wealthy.” or something with an undertone of ‘remember to pay taxes from those treasures you bring home.’
I am not a big fan of the art on Short Rest // Prepared Adventurer. But I think I like the stats. I don’t think I have seen a Human Elf before, have I?
I wholeheartely agree and I thank you for the warning. However I do not agree that there is anything wrong with the dungeon mechanic besides the burden on complexity which admittingly is high.
Thank you @Mown
@Chris Taylor
Nice! I think it’s a good idea to have that creature that cares about both Adventure and venturing be an important character. And also not someone who would venture themself. So legendary noble is a great creature type for this!
Would you people say Edgewall is a town that could have a mayor or is it just an inn?
I already run both Edgewall Innkeeper and Prosperous Innkeeper. I think you are right with the flavor text also! I’m imagining he is some kind of NPC who gives out quests. Maybe something like “Go forth, brave heroes. May you return safe and wealthy.” or something with an undertone of ‘remember to pay taxes from those treasures you bring home.’
I am not a big fan of the art on Short Rest // Prepared Adventurer. But I think I like the stats. I don’t think I have seen a Human Elf before, have I?
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My issue with Dungeons is mostly that they're just kinda clunky? They've just never felt right in play for me.
You actually can't - after you cast it, it becomes a different object in the graveyard. So it's pretty safe.
...
Also, there were actually quite a few Human Elves in the D&D sets, since that's how they mechanically represented half-elves.
You actually can't - after you cast it, it becomes a different object in the graveyard. So it's pretty safe.
...
Also, there were actually quite a few Human Elves in the D&D sets, since that's how they mechanically represented half-elves.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Ironically I figured late last night that I could also simply run Staff of the Storyteller instead of Legion's Landing, so Servo Station might not make it into the cube. Happy I posted it here though, if you are considering it
That all depends on the dungeon. You cannot interact with the dungeon, but can with the creature. My point was about the dungeon.
To clarify: if you are able to balance it, then it is really fun. However, balancing something that breaks the rules of mtg, things cost mana, no free cards, everything should be interactable, is quite difficult, e.g., free spells/phyrexian spells, monarch, companion, need I go on?
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Why not change the red mana source to hybrid black/red (or even white) ofI'm on a "replace every DFC" spree, and I'm pretty okay with axing most of them, but cutting Jace, Vryn's Prodigy hurts!
View attachment 8773
I know I'm losing the shrinking ability, but there's less space on SFC's, you know
The other card I'm really going to miss is Legion's Landing, which incidentally is awesome with the new RW celebration mechanic, as well as the already existing WB sacrifice theme. Maybe something like this?
View attachment 8774
It comes down later, but snowballs slowly. Which is just fine with me, since you have to end the game somehow.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Because Assemble the Legion is more a control finisher than it is go wide / celebration support. It’s five mana and pairs excellently with wrath effects, but it doesn’t help someone trying to run 16 lands on a low curve, aiming to leverage, e.g., Smokestack and Glimmer Lens.
Ironically I figured late last night that I could also simply run Staff of the Storyteller instead of Legion's Landing, so Servo Station might not make it into the cube. Happy I posted it here though, if you are considering it
I really like the art and flavor text you have made!
But the dungeon doesn’t do anything. The only thing that does anything are the cards saying ‘venture into the dungeon’
Are you maybe mixing it up dungeon with initiative? Because initiative is actually a non-interactable enchantment-like effect that happens each turn. It triggers by default each turn and you cannot stop it unless you also have initiative cards or deal combat damage like monarch.
But dungeon doesn’t break the rules of mtg.
To some extend you could argue free spells, Phyrexian spells, monarch and companion breaks the rules (even though they are in the rules but we all know what you mean) Dungeon is not really in the same category.
Am I wrong? Tell me how.
Free spells: You get to do something even without having the ressources you most often need to do that thing. This is not the case with dungeons.
Phyrexian mana: Same as free spells.
Monarch: You draw a card each turn and the only way opponent can stop it is by also having monarch cards or attack you. This is not the case with dungeons.
Companions: An 8th card in your starting hand. You get one extra card you normally wouldn’t get and there is nothing opponent can do to stop it. This is not the case with dungeons.
The floor is yours, I am listening
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Ok ok, I found room for Servo Station and Staff of the Storyteller
You are correct : dungeons as they are now only trigger some temporary effect. That is all fine and dandy, so far they do not break the rules. Still, dungeons/venture as is is quite hard to balance. The first entry gives often a much weaker payoff than the last one.
Still, they are hard to balance. Only costing venturing to their first payoff makes it too strong, while costing to the last makes it too weak. Averaging or a bit below makes the first ventures overcosted. So, one has to go all in on a venture deck. So it is parasitic at best.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I think basically any town needs a mayor, even if maybe in smaller towns they're not all that big about it.
Durnan specifically is the owner of the Yawning Portal, a famous inn in Waterdeep, and the entrance to the also famous Dungeon of the Mad Mage.
I was going to have him as a peasant like the rest of MTGs inkeepers, but he's a Lord of Waterdeep so I guess he gets the noble treatment.
I'm not a huge fan of the art either, but it was the most "this is a generic fantasy ranger" I had lying around. If anyone has suggestions let me know
wotc decided to make him a human warrior, for whatever that is worth.
I am aware of what you said, my point is that it's not really meaningful when conceptualizing interactive gameplay. Emotionally it might feel annoying to look at this immortal piece of cardboard, which is an important part of game design, but from a mechanical standpoint it really doesn't deserve to be called uninteractive. It essentially just turns your cards into a complicated modal spell, but you wouldn't make any similar complaints that charms are uninteractive because there's no way to interact with your opponent choosing mode to play.
Secondly, I really don't think it matters. Let's say they printed a card with "Target opponent leaves the dungeon" or "Target opponent ventures into jail (it's a dungeon with three empty linear rooms)", would that make it more appealing to include in a cube? You probably wouldn't add the aforementioned cards because of how narrow they are, even though you could now technically interact with dungeons. If you support Ajani's Pridemates in cube, do you also add cards that explicitly prevent life-gain? If you cube cards with rebound, do you need Rift Sweeper to deal with the card in exile? Is graveyard hate an essential inclusion in cubes with flashback cards?
In practice, most mechanics in magic can be interacted with meaningfully through the normal attack vectors, and dungeons aren't an exception. And I would guess that most cubes have a lot of gameplay elements you can't interact with in the context of that cube, that nobody is particularly bothered by. As an example, I play a lot of Suspend cards, and there's no way to manipulate those cards while they are suspended, but it's fundamentally just a different way to play the spell, it's not an aspect of the game you need agency over. Likewise, you seem to play a single copy of Carrion Beetle as the only way to interact with the numerous recursion effects in your cube like Yawgmoth's Will, Replenish and Karmic Guide, and you play cards like Mother of Runes and Argothian Enchantress that is way more likely to make me go "how the fuck do I deal with this" than any deck venturing into a given dungeon that's not called The Undercity.
fun hillbilly facts: at least in my neck of the woods, only cities have mayors. towns (there's a population threshold between the two) are governed instead by a small town council. usually one member sits on the council per "district" of the town.