Yeah, I would go with Doom Blade or something like that here.
Cleansing Beam seems pretty unplayable.
[Design/Construction] Lets build the Scuttlemutt Cube!
- Thread starter Laz
- Start date
Yeah, I would go with Doom Blade or something like that here.
Cleansing Beam seems pretty unplayable.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
If it needs to cost 3, dark banishing 
Almost all my black removal spells are Soul Reaps and I love it
Almost all my black removal spells are Soul Reaps and I love it
Or something oddball like Slaughter Pact
Laz
Developer
I agree with you on Cleansing Beam. 3 mana is a lot to pay over Pyroclasm for very situational upside, which can also be a serious downside. Do you think that any of the Radiance cards are playable?
I am loving the Slaughter Pact suggestion Eric, and good to hear support of Soul Reap from you Chris.
Maybe the section should look like this:
The Murder is in there simply to prevent invulnerable Black/Green creatures. I like having a lot of colour dependant removal, but since most of it is non-black, and soul reap is non-green, I would prefer to not have to think too much about limiting the power level of multi-colour black creatures. Maybe Murder can instead be Putrefy and Mortify?
Laz
Developer
Started putting what I had thus far into CubeTutor. Link in the first post.
Looking over the list as it stands, it definitely needs some fleshing out, in a number of places. A lot of archetypes still need bulking out, and cross-theme pack filler cards needs to be added. For instance, there are no ramp targets and there need to be more single-colour low drops. I still haven't looked into Domain, and that includes a lack of Rampant Growth type effects. CubeTutor analysis tools seem really bad for cubes like this, where classification is really loose. I am not sure how to make this better, but I might need to use some sweet Spreadsheet magic to look at curves and effective cast-able cards by colour/archetypes.
Looking over the list as it stands, it definitely needs some fleshing out, in a number of places. A lot of archetypes still need bulking out, and cross-theme pack filler cards needs to be added. For instance, there are no ramp targets and there need to be more single-colour low drops. I still haven't looked into Domain, and that includes a lack of Rampant Growth type effects. CubeTutor analysis tools seem really bad for cubes like this, where classification is really loose. I am not sure how to make this better, but I might need to use some sweet Spreadsheet magic to look at curves and effective cast-able cards by colour/archetypes.
Laz
Developer
Ok, Domain is one of the main planned archetypes which is currently lacking, so it seems like a good place to start filling out.
Domain comes in several parts, those cards which enable Domain, by fetching lands, and those that benefit from the many colours. I have already added some of the better Sunburst cards into the list, so I am not sure what else loves lots of different types of mana, other than Domain keyworded cards themselves.
Credit where credit is due, Jason Waddell, in his Eldrazi Domain Cube, made Blue the centre of the Domain sub-theme. Now, since Blue is very lightly occupied at the moment, I am going to poach his excellent ideas, and emphasise Domain in blue, although it will end up spread across RUG.
I already added triple Tribal Flames. I am tempted to add a Drag Down variant which puts -1/-1 counters on the creature instead of giving it -1/-1 until end of turn. Oft-times it will have the same effect, but it can also make a creature larger than your domain much easier to deal with, as well as playing nicely with the counter themes. It may be a little too similar to Puncture Blast in that case though.
As anchor cards for Domain, we probably need some suitably crazy 5 colour options. I am thinking:
Green Bringer is there as potential ramp target (Although 9 mana is a silly amount, go go Proliferate Everflowing Chalice?). Composite Golem can also come in to help out. I do have a copy of Progenitus lying around, and I am looking for a home for him, but that is certainly too deep, and I don't think cheating him into play is that fun (aside: Natural Order does say 'green' on it a lot).
Enabling Domain means we need some way of getting lands. I have already added a pair of Knight of the Reliquary (Cheers CML), and there certainly needs to be a bit of a cross over between Domain enablers and ramp.
There are no shortage of ramp cards in Magic, and I am sure that this area could be improved.
Thoughts?
Domain comes in several parts, those cards which enable Domain, by fetching lands, and those that benefit from the many colours. I have already added some of the better Sunburst cards into the list, so I am not sure what else loves lots of different types of mana, other than Domain keyworded cards themselves.
Credit where credit is due, Jason Waddell, in his Eldrazi Domain Cube, made Blue the centre of the Domain sub-theme. Now, since Blue is very lightly occupied at the moment, I am going to poach his excellent ideas, and emphasise Domain in blue, although it will end up spread across RUG.
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I already added triple Tribal Flames. I am tempted to add a Drag Down variant which puts -1/-1 counters on the creature instead of giving it -1/-1 until end of turn. Oft-times it will have the same effect, but it can also make a creature larger than your domain much easier to deal with, as well as playing nicely with the counter themes. It may be a little too similar to Puncture Blast in that case though.
As anchor cards for Domain, we probably need some suitably crazy 5 colour options. I am thinking:
Green Bringer is there as potential ramp target (Although 9 mana is a silly amount, go go Proliferate Everflowing Chalice?). Composite Golem can also come in to help out. I do have a copy of Progenitus lying around, and I am looking for a home for him, but that is certainly too deep, and I don't think cheating him into play is that fun (aside: Natural Order does say 'green' on it a lot).
Enabling Domain means we need some way of getting lands. I have already added a pair of Knight of the Reliquary (Cheers CML), and there certainly needs to be a bit of a cross over between Domain enablers and ramp.
There are no shortage of ramp cards in Magic, and I am sure that this area could be improved.
Thoughts?
Dreamscape seems kind of poop.
Also have you considered that new BGN 5-color Chromanticore thingy?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Badderskull? (Stolen)
He seems cool, but less cool and less good than other 5c options in my opinion
He seems cool, but less cool and less good than other 5c options in my opinion
Laz
Developer
I agree, I just didn't want to tie the options for Domain entirely into Green. How has Expedition Map worked out for you?
Laz
Developer
I don't know if I am going to have a Utility land draft for this cube. I love it deeply in my main cube, but the tighter focus here means that I don't know if this one needs that level of outside support.
Without a utility land draft, I don't know if there are going to be the same incentives for Expedition Map. If you look at the lands I have opted to include at this stage, they are all fixing or Wasteland, which means that in 90% of cases, Expedition Map would be better off as a fetch-land.
I realised I just asked for your opinion then told you why you were wrong. Sorry about that, I think I just needed to bounce my thoughts off of something in order to work out what I was actually thinking. Thanks for being a sounding board.
Without a utility land draft, I don't know if there are going to be the same incentives for Expedition Map. If you look at the lands I have opted to include at this stage, they are all fixing or Wasteland, which means that in 90% of cases, Expedition Map would be better off as a fetch-land.
I realised I just asked for your opinion then told you why you were wrong. Sorry about that, I think I just needed to bounce my thoughts off of something in order to work out what I was actually thinking. Thanks for being a sounding board.
Yeah, I don't know what fixing you are running here, but in my Eldrazi Domain cube the Domain archetype is actually base-Blue, not green.
Laz
Developer
Lands Summary:
2x Fetches
Shocks
ABU Duals
Vivids
Tendo Ice Bridge
2x Wilds
3x Wasteland
Alara tri-lands
Also, by 'I don't want to tie the options for Domain entirely into Green', I perhaps meant 'I don't want to tie the options for mana-fixing, including maximising the number of basic land types, to Green, but instead provide options to other colours, given that the primary incentives for playing Domain are in Red and Blue (Tribal Flames, Evasive Action/Allied Strategies/Worldly Counsel)'
2x Fetches
Shocks
ABU Duals
Vivids
Tendo Ice Bridge
2x Wilds
3x Wasteland
Alara tri-lands
Also, by 'I don't want to tie the options for Domain entirely into Green', I perhaps meant 'I don't want to tie the options for mana-fixing, including maximising the number of basic land types, to Green, but instead provide options to other colours, given that the primary incentives for playing Domain are in Red and Blue (Tribal Flames, Evasive Action/Allied Strategies/Worldly Counsel)'
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Okay I'm just going to ask the dumb question here:
Assuming you can play 5c without cards like kodama's reach, does that pose a problem for how the rest of the decks turn out? Does the 5 color deck ever not come together because people kept swiping their fetchlands for example?
(Does it happen often enough for you to want to change that?)
Most of the domain cards are totally non-embarassing at Domain = 3. Eric should replace Volcanic Hammer with Tribal Flames.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
<-- He's not the only proponent of sorcery speed removal sir!
Honestly, there's some things I just think don't need to be complicated, which is probably why I don't see the draw of something like evasive action over mana leak. Sure it relates to the theme, but is it much better when it's strongly on theme? Most of the times I've cast mana leak/miscalculation, an extra 2-3 on the mana paid was certainly not going to make a difference.
There's a bit more of an argument for tribal flames, as with burn spells the difference between 2 and 4 is a huge one, especially when you're going to the dome. But I don't wanna shaft the guy who doesn't want to play 3 colors just so he can have volcanic hammer. Tribal Flames really doesn't belong in a 2 or 1 color deck, and those guys kinda need a burn spell
don't get me wrong: Collective Restraint, Allied Strategies, and Worldly Council I'm totally on board with. (Well as much as I can be with a propaganda effect) Their scaling definitely looks like it'll matter, and they're really non-embarrassing at lower scalar levels. They also go in decks which would more naturally lean towards more colors, whereas tribal flames doesn't always.
<-- He's not the only proponent of sorcery speed removal sir!
Honestly, there's some things I just think don't need to be complicated, which is probably why I don't see the draw of something like evasive action over mana leak. Sure it relates to the theme, but is it much better when it's strongly on theme? Most of the times I've cast mana leak/miscalculation, an extra 2-3 on the mana paid was certainly not going to make a difference.
There's a bit more of an argument for tribal flames, as with burn spells the difference between 2 and 4 is a huge one, especially when you're going to the dome. But I don't wanna shaft the guy who doesn't want to play 3 colors just so he can have volcanic hammer. Tribal Flames really doesn't belong in a 2 or 1 color deck, and those guys kinda need a burn spell
don't get me wrong: Collective Restraint, Allied Strategies, and Worldly Council I'm totally on board with. (Well as much as I can be with a propaganda effect) Their scaling definitely looks like it'll matter, and they're really non-embarrassing at lower scalar levels. They also go in decks which would more naturally lean towards more colors, whereas tribal flames doesn't always.
You gotta play the set you're given. Alara wasn't built for two-color decks, nor Ravnica for monocolor decks. I don't really have much sympathy here. Besides, there probably won't be more than a dozen domain spells anyways.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Fair enough. At the moment ALL of my burn spells are volcanic hammer (Except lightning bolt and incinerate), so the change is a pretty radical one.
Are there non-bad ways we can mitigate the domain being reliant on a sick manabase thing? Maybe otherwise playable cards get "while this is in play, it counts as a swamp" or some such tacked on?
Do we need this sort of erratta?
I don't think you need the errata. I think Domain is already a great mechanic with plenty of good, cubable cards printed in it.
I don't think it's possible for ETB tapped fixing lands to be game breaking. Even if they're fetchable. I say do it.
Laz
Developer
Laz
Developer
I wrote early on about a cycle of enchantments based around multi-colour creatures, which could either line up nicely, or be manipulated by the colour changing elements.
Now, there was a nice set of these in Shadowmoor block, but some of them were simply priced a little too highly to be justifiable in an aggressively inclined deck. I have slowed down removal, so hopefully these are playable... I am not sure if I should include the Blue ones of these, since firstly, there are not very many decent hybrid Blue cards, and Blue hasn't really been considered in the aggro shell thus far (It was Naya dabbling in Black)
The existing ones:
I am a little concerned with the 3CMC on Scourge and Shield though.
These ones can be supplemented with (replacing the existing 5 CMC enchants):
In addition, this guy does pretty much what I want it to do.
Now, I wouldn't mind adding a few more enchantments, especially with Lost Auramancers. Perhaps there are some neat enchantment creatures I have missed in THS block?
Now, there was a nice set of these in Shadowmoor block, but some of them were simply priced a little too highly to be justifiable in an aggressively inclined deck. I have slowed down removal, so hopefully these are playable... I am not sure if I should include the Blue ones of these, since firstly, there are not very many decent hybrid Blue cards, and Blue hasn't really been considered in the aggro shell thus far (It was Naya dabbling in Black)
The existing ones:
I am a little concerned with the 3CMC on Scourge and Shield though.
These ones can be supplemented with (replacing the existing 5 CMC enchants):
In addition, this guy does pretty much what I want it to do.
Now, I wouldn't mind adding a few more enchantments, especially with Lost Auramancers. Perhaps there are some neat enchantment creatures I have missed in THS block?