[Design/Construction] Lets build the Scuttlemutt Cube!
- Thread starter Laz
- Start date
Laz
Developer
Thoughts? Or does that run contrary to the expectations set?
(I personally really like it. It is somewhere between a Cabal Therapy and a Thoughtseize. Maybe it is a little strong, but I don't think it is oppressive.)
Edit: The attribution is wrong given the implication, but Emmanuel does have the best quotes about thoughtcrime in the abstract. How about we pretend it is a description by one above Crimestop?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I run that in my regular cube and love it
Laz
Developer
He he! Just found it in your list of custom cards. I guess that we both just thought Addle was a nice design, but needed a push. I am bizarrely happy that we came to the same conclusion.
Laz
Developer
Found myself desperately looking for themes to add. How does Heroic/Double strike seem?
It has a bit of cross over with the the counter themes, add some competing demand for the multi-colour auras, opens up the potential for Scuttlemutt + Civic Saber stupidity. Would adding a copy Psychotic Fury be too far?
It has a bit of cross over with the the counter themes, add some competing demand for the multi-colour auras, opens up the potential for Scuttlemutt + Civic Saber stupidity. Would adding a copy Psychotic Fury be too far?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
The problem i have with double strike is a poison one. other than rancor and bonesplitter, most of the pump effects are pretty narrow to that deck.
I'm also trying to keep mist of the pump effects under giant growth, so this deck doesn't turn into combo infect, or kiln fiend stle aggro.
Silverblade Paladin is the best card for the deck, and I wish fencing ace was better on his own.
I'm also trying to keep mist of the pump effects under giant growth, so this deck doesn't turn into combo infect, or kiln fiend stle aggro.
Silverblade Paladin is the best card for the deck, and I wish fencing ace was better on his own.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Not everything is poison. I can totally see scuttles changing the color of a creature with blessing of the nephilim on it, then dropping silverblade.
What I'm saying is I tried stuff like hyena umbra and slaughterhorn and NOBODY else wanted them. Slughterhorn was probably closer to good, but aggro isn't really green for me.
I wrote a primer on the deck a while back, lemmie see if I can dig that up
What I'm saying is I tried stuff like hyena umbra and slaughterhorn and NOBODY else wanted them. Slughterhorn was probably closer to good, but aggro isn't really green for me.
I wrote a primer on the deck a while back, lemmie see if I can dig that up
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Found it: http://riptidelab.com/one-two-punch-adding-a-double-strike-theme/
Prey's Vengence may be better than I'm giving it credit for, I kinda skipped over it in the article.
Briarhorn has been excellent, and Fabled Hero was just not as good as silverblade paladin for the deck. The ability to start pantsing up a creature and then give it double strike instead of having to wait for the double strike creature is key, and adds a nice unpredictable dimension to the deck.
I know I mention wrecking ogre in there, but that card is not worth adding. All it does is just end the game, it's way too good or way too bad. Don't do it.
Prey's Vengence may be better than I'm giving it credit for, I kinda skipped over it in the article.
Briarhorn has been excellent, and Fabled Hero was just not as good as silverblade paladin for the deck. The ability to start pantsing up a creature and then give it double strike instead of having to wait for the double strike creature is key, and adds a nice unpredictable dimension to the deck.
I know I mention wrecking ogre in there, but that card is not worth adding. All it does is just end the game, it's way too good or way too bad. Don't do it.
I don't think Double-Strike needs that much support though. Just run enough random Reckless Charges and cheap equipment, stuff that's good anyways. You don't need to go all-in to make double-strike dudes good.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Exactly. I'm saying he's got the color matters creature enchantments already, things could be sweet
My pump suite is:
x2 rancor
x2 bonesplitter
grafted wargear
reckless charge
griffin guide
warriors' lesson
x2 Runechanter's pike (?)
Ajani, caller of the pride
the poison stuff was cards like hyena umbra
Double Strike + Bestow?
Laz
Developer
I will need to re-examine Double Strike then. I think the power level here is low enough that some Heroic cards will be playable, and hopefully I can throw enough interesting cards in that it doesn't just become 'the heroic/double-strike deck'. Something to look at this weekend I guess.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Also hound of gristlebrand!
the 4 drops are harder since you start so late, but I love the potential cross synergy crypt champ has
the 4 drops are harder since you start so late, but I love the potential cross synergy crypt champ has
Twinclaws looks surprisingly non-embarassing for a lower powered multicolor cube. Works well with this one:
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I've had a bit of trouble finding things to have black be involved at all with this, maybe something like this?
Also this is too cute not to run:
Also this is too cute not to run:
Laz
Developer
How about something like this:
Double Strike:
These guys were chosen for crossover with other things going on, except Silverblade, who got added for being genuinely good. I am not sure if Bestow is truly something I am representing heavily in the Cube yet, but I want to try Ghostblade Eidolon out.
In terms of pump, I really like the suggestion of Homicidal Seclusion. I definitely not going to push the loner theme that Avacyn Restored has, but I think it is a very cool card in a more controlling deck in this lower-power environment.
So for pump spells, I already have some neat things, here are some additional thoughts.
Bestow is a pretty cool dynamic, and there is room to try it out here.
Celestial Archon is less as a pump spell for double strikers, and more as a finisher/card that can be fetched by Lost Auramancers. Everflame is one I am a little doubtful about, as it feels a little poison-y. Insane on a double-striker, pretty bad just as a value creature. Nimbus Naiad seems a little below baseline, but could be good, I don't know.
Thanks to Chris for his article, as otherwise I probably would have not thought to add Spikeshot Elder...
I am also getting to a pretty large number of Enchantments by cube standards, it might be worth looking for cards that interact with them. Any cool ones?
Double Strike:
These guys were chosen for crossover with other things going on, except Silverblade, who got added for being genuinely good. I am not sure if Bestow is truly something I am representing heavily in the Cube yet, but I want to try Ghostblade Eidolon out.
In terms of pump, I really like the suggestion of Homicidal Seclusion. I definitely not going to push the loner theme that Avacyn Restored has, but I think it is a very cool card in a more controlling deck in this lower-power environment.
So for pump spells, I already have some neat things, here are some additional thoughts.
Bestow is a pretty cool dynamic, and there is room to try it out here.
Celestial Archon is less as a pump spell for double strikers, and more as a finisher/card that can be fetched by Lost Auramancers. Everflame is one I am a little doubtful about, as it feels a little poison-y. Insane on a double-striker, pretty bad just as a value creature. Nimbus Naiad seems a little below baseline, but could be good, I don't know.
Thanks to Chris for his article, as otherwise I probably would have not thought to add Spikeshot Elder...
I am also getting to a pretty large number of Enchantments by cube standards, it might be worth looking for cards that interact with them. Any cool ones?
I don't really think Homicidal Seclusion is what you want at all, but I could be wrong. Supposed it can't hurt to test.
I think the loner mechanic was poorly implemented even in AVR, and that this may never even pump a double-striker dude, especially considering that those decks will a) want to do a lot of attacking, and b) involve cards like Crypt Champion and Silverblade Paladin that want there to be multiple guys on the board.
Hi Laz, I've looked through your thread so apologies if missed these cards but what about:
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Could we erratta seclusion to work like exhaled does? I don't think that would be insane
I've also got fencing ace, try him if ghostblade doesn't work.
And I still don't like increasing savagry too much damage out of nowhere IMO
I've also got fencing ace, try him if ghostblade doesn't work.
And I still don't like increasing savagry
too much damage out of nowhere IMO
Laz
Developer
Hey Alfonzo, welcome!
I have considered Saltblast, but 5-mana is just so much, and it doesn't even buy you instant speed! I was in fact more tempted by Mass Calcify, to kind of push the white-matters theme, but the mana costs are just too high! Vile Requiem seems very cool (sweet flavour), but horrifically slow, even with proliferate. Maybe I will come back to looking at it if I add a heavier Enchantment focus. Wild Mongrel is a consideration, but only having a single colour, even if it is variable, is less important than having lots of colours as it turns out.
Chris, I can understand your concern. Increasing Savagery + Double Strike is pretty terrifying. What actually excites me more is Increasing Savagery + Fathom Mage, but that is because I have this tendency to play decks for which the opponent's life total is usually just something to worry about later. I think Increasing Savagery could be stepped back, maybe to something like Common Bond or Give / Take. Actually, Give / Take seems really sweet, especially in my '+ Fathom Mage' scenario. Draw all of the cards!
Jason, I think you are right in regards to it being unlikely that Homicidal Seclusion will pump a Double Striker. I didn't see the card in that light, and thought of it more in terms of incidental support for that theme. I saw it as more of a control-oriented card, but I am not really sure that it has a place.
Aside, on Exalted. Cathedral of War in the Utility Land pile (for a more conventional cube, not this one)? It doesn't really tie back into any typical themes, but I could see it being taken.
I have considered Saltblast, but 5-mana is just so much, and it doesn't even buy you instant speed! I was in fact more tempted by Mass Calcify, to kind of push the white-matters theme, but the mana costs are just too high! Vile Requiem seems very cool (sweet flavour), but horrifically slow, even with proliferate. Maybe I will come back to looking at it if I add a heavier Enchantment focus. Wild Mongrel is a consideration, but only having a single colour, even if it is variable, is less important than having lots of colours as it turns out.
Chris, I can understand your concern. Increasing Savagery + Double Strike is pretty terrifying. What actually excites me more is Increasing Savagery + Fathom Mage, but that is because I have this tendency to play decks for which the opponent's life total is usually just something to worry about later. I think Increasing Savagery could be stepped back, maybe to something like Common Bond or Give / Take. Actually, Give / Take seems really sweet, especially in my '+ Fathom Mage' scenario. Draw all of the cards!
Jason, I think you are right in regards to it being unlikely that Homicidal Seclusion will pump a Double Striker. I didn't see the card in that light, and thought of it more in terms of incidental support for that theme. I saw it as more of a control-oriented card, but I am not really sure that it has a place.
Aside, on Exalted. Cathedral of War in the Utility Land pile (for a more conventional cube, not this one)? It doesn't really tie back into any typical themes, but I could see it being taken.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I'd play cathedral if I ran the utility draft