The thing I like about the color enchantments is that it gives Scuttlemutt something else to do: turn them off.
[Design/Construction] Lets build the Scuttlemutt Cube!
- Thread starter Laz
- Start date
Chris Taylor
Contributor
In terms of the custom enchantments: Can the green one be double hybrid and give +2/+1 and haste for red, and +1/+1 and trample for green? I think the +3/+2 enchantment fits way better in RG than BG
Regen makes way more sense in BG, but I think we can do something cooler: Maybe Deathtouch and a Sabateour Trigger, like "When this deals combat damage to a player, raise dead" or something?
Lastly: Does scuttlemutt cost 3 or 2 in this cube? (IE did you follow through on my omega myr idea? becasue if your 3 drop is spending time turning off combat bonuses on their creatures, you might be fighting a losing battle there.
Regen makes way more sense in BG, but I think we can do something cooler: Maybe Deathtouch and a Sabateour Trigger, like "When this deals combat damage to a player, raise dead" or something?
Lastly: Does scuttlemutt cost 3 or 2 in this cube? (IE did you follow through on my omega myr idea? becasue if your 3 drop is spending time turning off combat bonuses on their creatures, you might be fighting a losing battle there.
Laz
Developer
You make good points Chris (and have had far longer creating magic cards than I have).
How does this look:
Husk of the Deus - (R/G)(R/G)
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
As long as enchanted creature is red, it gets +1/+1 and has haste.
As long as enchanted creature is green, it gets +2/+1.
You said double hybrid, but I am unsure if that undermines the haste on it. Maybe 1(r/g) would be better? (since it doesn't require access to 3-4 red or green mana to take advantage of)
I like intimidate because it is a nice colours-matter mechanic, but there are not enough generally playable intimidate guys (Highborn Ghoul and Spectral Rider have unfortunate mana requirements), so this was an attempt to add it in some manner.
Maybe intimidate and a saboteur ability? Seems like a good combo. Something like an assemble your own Academy Raider, although looting is not a very Green ability. Mark of Sakiko is probably pretty appropriate, but it could be something crazy like One with Nature (which is pretty interesting by itself). Snake Umbra is certainly too powerful an effect.
As for 2 mana Scuttle, it is probably a good idea from a game design point of view. It kicks me right in the sentimental gut though, and does prohibit me from sourcing the most exclusive signed, foiled, etc Scuttles that have ever existed...
2 mana 1/2 Scuttlemutt it is, and I will just buy 4 foil Scuttles to hang on my wall or something.
How does this look:
Husk of the Deus - (R/G)(R/G)
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
As long as enchanted creature is red, it gets +1/+1 and has haste.
As long as enchanted creature is green, it gets +2/+1.
You said double hybrid, but I am unsure if that undermines the haste on it. Maybe 1(r/g) would be better? (since it doesn't require access to 3-4 red or green mana to take advantage of)
I like intimidate because it is a nice colours-matter mechanic, but there are not enough generally playable intimidate guys (Highborn Ghoul and Spectral Rider have unfortunate mana requirements), so this was an attempt to add it in some manner.
Maybe intimidate and a saboteur ability? Seems like a good combo. Something like an assemble your own Academy Raider, although looting is not a very Green ability. Mark of Sakiko is probably pretty appropriate, but it could be something crazy like One with Nature (which is pretty interesting by itself). Snake Umbra is certainly too powerful an effect.
As for 2 mana Scuttle, it is probably a good idea from a game design point of view. It kicks me right in the sentimental gut though, and does prohibit me from sourcing the most exclusive signed, foiled, etc Scuttles that have ever existed...
2 mana 1/2 Scuttlemutt it is, and I will just buy 4 foil Scuttles to hang on my wall or something.
Laz
Developer
How is this as a 5-colour card which has the bonus of playing nicely with Lost Auramancers?
Better or worse than Maelstrom Nexus? Or are both of them just rubbish?
D(jk2m2389/LkEH61s2PF_EN.jpg)
Laz
Developer
I have seen Chromanticore. I like that it is a 5-colour Enchantment, I just don't like much else about it. Maybe it plays better than it looks? Also, although I have read the design notes, would it kill them to put Haste on it? Even though it is unintuitively non-functional and would break the symmetry?
Maybe I have just been spoiled by much easier to cast flying, first-striking, lifelinking 5-drops? Or I just expect my WURBG cards to have more than 4 power...
Maybe I have just been spoiled by much easier to cast flying, first-striking, lifelinking 5-drops? Or I just expect my WURBG cards to have more than 4 power...
I think if you treat the Bestow as the primary cost you may feel more favorable. Also, of course, it depends on what sort of power level you are looking at for the set as a whole. Bestow is such a cool mechanic. Now that they've used it and Totem Armor, I wonder what they'll come up with the next time they try to make auras playable.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
The reason I said double hyrbid is because I thought single hybrid and a colorless might be too strong, but I'm a little out my element out of here.
I like intimidate + one with nature, maybe a mulch type effect so it doesn't accelerate you? I dunno
My vote is for Genju
I like intimidate + one with nature, maybe a mulch type effect so it doesn't accelerate you? I dunno
My vote is for Genju
Laz
Developer
Yeah, creature enchantments are a strange design space, because the printed power level is so disparate. I suspect that they are strongly shaped by the level of removal in the format for which they are designed. I can try 1(R/G) and see how that goes.
As for the BG one, something like
~ 1(B/G)
Enchantment
Enchant Creature
As long as enchanted creature is black, it gets +1/+1 and has intimidate.
As long as enchanted creature is green, it gets +1/+1 and has 'whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, reveal the top 4 cards of your library, you may put a land card revealed this way into your hand and all other revealed cards on the bottom of your library in any order.'
Might be a little text heavy... Also maybe this could cost (B/G) instead of 1(B/G). Maybe I shouldn't be tied to the SHM/EVE automatically giving +1/+1. Gyah, cards are hard when I can't just throw them at a million playtesters.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Maybe it's better to go for keen sense just for simplicity's sake?
+1/+1 and intimidate
Keen sense (but no bonus)
That's probably fair at 1H and requiring a 2 color creature, right?
+1/+1 and intimidate
Keen sense (but no bonus)
That's probably fair at 1H and requiring a 2 color creature, right?
Laz
Developer
Updated!
Thanks Chris!
Now to add some gold creatures for these to enchant... What density do you think is good? I think I am fine for Gruul and Selesnya with 10+ dual colour creatures (inc. Shardblades). Rakdos could probably do with 1-2 more, and Boros and Golgari have very few targets.
Orzhov has but a single target. Perhaps Edge of the Divinity should become Gift of Orzhova? Or maybe cut it all together. Maybe these enchantments are just all around a bad idea and I am trying too hard to make colours work?
Thanks Chris!
Now to add some gold creatures for these to enchant... What density do you think is good? I think I am fine for Gruul and Selesnya with 10+ dual colour creatures (inc. Shardblades). Rakdos could probably do with 1-2 more, and Boros and Golgari have very few targets.
Orzhov has but a single target. Perhaps Edge of the Divinity should become Gift of Orzhova? Or maybe cut it all together. Maybe these enchantments are just all around a bad idea and I am trying too hard to make colours work?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Laz
Developer
I just remembered a cycle of colour-caring cards printed very recently, the Denizens.
I definitely don't think all of them earn a place (as you may have picked up by now, cycles mean very little to me), but Foundry Street Denizen and Shadow Alley Denizen(Never noticed before how sweet that art is) are pretty reasonable cards for aggressive decks (and reasonably costed intimidate, the type I said I couldn't find!). Seeing Foundry Street Denizen made me realise (along with considering Sochi's Lorwyn cube), that since I am so heavily Shadowmoor based, I might be reaching a critical mass for latent tribal. Sure, I only have 9 Goblins locked in at the moment, but Foundry and Murderous Redcap would push me to 11, and I figure once I get around 20, a couple of cards that care about Goblins might be a nice little incentive. I mean, I only have ~30 Humans in my main Cube, but that seems enough for Champion of the Parish, Mayor of Avabruck and Xathrid Necromancer to become sweet. Gravecrawlers seem to work fine with on 13 Zombies (but then, you only need 1 for Gravecrawler to work).
In addition, 13 Elves already...
I definitely don't think all of them earn a place (as you may have picked up by now, cycles mean very little to me), but Foundry Street Denizen and Shadow Alley Denizen(Never noticed before how sweet that art is) are pretty reasonable cards for aggressive decks (and reasonably costed intimidate, the type I said I couldn't find!). Seeing Foundry Street Denizen made me realise (along with considering Sochi's Lorwyn cube), that since I am so heavily Shadowmoor based, I might be reaching a critical mass for latent tribal. Sure, I only have 9 Goblins locked in at the moment, but Foundry and Murderous Redcap would push me to 11, and I figure once I get around 20, a couple of cards that care about Goblins might be a nice little incentive. I mean, I only have ~30 Humans in my main Cube, but that seems enough for Champion of the Parish, Mayor of Avabruck and Xathrid Necromancer to become sweet. Gravecrawlers seem to work fine with on 13 Zombies (but then, you only need 1 for Gravecrawler to work).
In addition, 13 Elves already...
Laz
Developer
Glad to hear that what I am working on here is helping more than just me.
I am not convinced that I can support tribal very effectively. The cards just aren't there. All of the key tribal cards just seems too all-in. I am looking for cards like Bloodline Keeper, which is a fine card, but benefits from having extra Vampires in your deck, but they don't seem to exist for most tribes, everything kind of assumes you will commit completely to the tribe.
I think I am up to hole filling for most of this cube. I still need some ramp targets, black needs some discard, blue needs some card draw/filtering, the whole thing needs some more 2-drops, etc.
I made alot of additions to the cube today.
I bolstered Devotion a little, branching out from just black. (Since I looked at all of my hybrid symbols and thought, why not?)
I continued to add to the counter theme I have. Some of these are ideas from the +1/+1 counter thread, others are because I think I can get away with going a little deeper, since I suspect I have more counter manipulation than most cubes.
I added some more Suspend cards, since I touched on these earlier in the thread, then seemed to forget about them.
Delay is simply an on-theme counterspell, and my counter density was a little low (only the 4 Evasive Actions). Fury Charm seems like a 'just-fine' card here, in the way that most modal cards are.
I have this feeling that Domain and Ramp will commonly be the same deck (since most of the Domain enablers ramp), which is a little worrying as I feel it could be incredibly strong. I am not sure how to handle this, or even if I am just worrying over-much about it.
I am not convinced that I can support tribal very effectively. The cards just aren't there. All of the key tribal cards just seems too all-in. I am looking for cards like Bloodline Keeper, which is a fine card, but benefits from having extra Vampires in your deck, but they don't seem to exist for most tribes, everything kind of assumes you will commit completely to the tribe.
I think I am up to hole filling for most of this cube. I still need some ramp targets, black needs some discard, blue needs some card draw/filtering, the whole thing needs some more 2-drops, etc.
I made alot of additions to the cube today.
I bolstered Devotion a little, branching out from just black. (Since I looked at all of my hybrid symbols and thought, why not?)
I continued to add to the counter theme I have. Some of these are ideas from the +1/+1 counter thread, others are because I think I can get away with going a little deeper, since I suspect I have more counter manipulation than most cubes.
I added some more Suspend cards, since I touched on these earlier in the thread, then seemed to forget about them.
Delay is simply an on-theme counterspell, and my counter density was a little low (only the 4 Evasive Actions). Fury Charm seems like a 'just-fine' card here, in the way that most modal cards are.
I have this feeling that Domain and Ramp will commonly be the same deck (since most of the Domain enablers ramp), which is a little worrying as I feel it could be incredibly strong. I am not sure how to handle this, or even if I am just worrying over-much about it.
Laz
Developer
I went to add a bunch of cards that I would refer to as hole fillers, then got sidetracked... So, where I thought I was going to add some card draw, I added a whole lot of cards which care about the graveyard. I fear that these don't have any real coherence in this cube though. They don't really play into any of the major themes, other than being incidentally hated on by Deathrite Shaman and Dryad Militant... (And the desperate post-hoc rationalisation of my actions by adding Increasing Savagery and Glamerdye)
I think I got distracted by thinking about a possible 'spells-matter' theme, which also doesn't interlock with colours or counters at all... On the plus side, Eternal Dragon is probably fine, being able to fetch out lands for domain, and fixing mana.
I think I got distracted by thinking about a possible 'spells-matter' theme, which also doesn't interlock with colours or counters at all... On the plus side, Eternal Dragon is probably fine, being able to fetch out lands for domain, and fixing mana.
Laz
Developer
Awesome suggestion Jonas.
Is Noxious Vapors too crazy as a discard spell?
In fact, how crazy can we go on 'choose a color' cards?
Addle might need to be 1CMC instead of 2, but I like the effect.
Chromatic Armor plays nicely with counter removal, but is otherwise unremarkable (I should really do a count of that).
Scrying Glass seems cute, but horrible.
I already had a pair of Sudden Demise in the list, likewise a Wash Out.
So I think what I am saying is Addle(at B), Persecute, Noxious Vapors as discard. Keep Sudden Demise and Wash Out. Curse of Wizardry seems... horrible.
For a twist on Persecute, how would a Baleful Stare/Withering Gaze be if it was 'choose a color'? Obviously a horrible late-game topdeck, actually all around hard to balance. It cannot cost too little, because then it draws too many cards early game, and it is useless late-game, because it will usually do nothing. Forget I said anything, though the thought experiment was probably valuable. Sometimes I just get over-eager.
Is Noxious Vapors too crazy as a discard spell?
In fact, how crazy can we go on 'choose a color' cards?
Addle might need to be 1CMC instead of 2, but I like the effect.
Chromatic Armor plays nicely with counter removal, but is otherwise unremarkable (I should really do a count of that).
Scrying Glass seems cute, but horrible.
I already had a pair of Sudden Demise in the list, likewise a Wash Out.
So I think what I am saying is Addle(at B), Persecute, Noxious Vapors as discard. Keep Sudden Demise and Wash Out. Curse of Wizardry seems... horrible.
For a twist on Persecute, how would a Baleful Stare/Withering Gaze be if it was 'choose a color'? Obviously a horrible late-game topdeck, actually all around hard to balance. It cannot cost too little, because then it draws too many cards early game, and it is useless late-game, because it will usually do nothing. Forget I said anything, though the thought experiment was probably valuable. Sometimes I just get over-eager.