Site News Design Contest Voting and Debate

[Calvin Chan]

As much as I love the draft adjustment and wild card type effect of GSZ, the ability that shuffles itself back into the deck keeps me away from the idea. Say you start with 2 copies in your 40, a couple of turns in can easily leave you with 2 in about 26, which greatly reduces the variance of your draws and you just tutor with it every couple of turns. I do like the draft angle that KoTR adds to GW, but personally I'm hesitant to double up on gold cards, when there is such a large card pool to be explored.

Like others above, I don't thinkAccumulated knowledge and kindle add very much to gameplay for the effort.

I don't mind that splinter twin enables instant win combos, but it's pretty mediocre when you aren't going off. Combined with the fact that the cube will only have a handful of cards that it goes off with and any form of disruption, this card is way too high variance to set up.

I like the concept of the scuttlemutt effect, but the balance between the power of cards that get improved by the colour change and how playable they are without the effect (like having a handful of shatters in the liquidmetal coating deck) is a fine line. I do think that this is a viable cube angle with a focus on heavy gold (specifically having x colour permanents in play) and going deep on sanctuary(s) or something.

 

[Goldenpineapple]

I won't lie, I'm not convinced. I'm already stiff to breaking singleton, instead trying different directions before forcing something, and I don't feel like any of these carry or spawn new archetypes. They're either ways to make already-fine archetypes more consistent/powerful (GSZ, pyromancer) or require too many support cards that are mediocre on their own (tinker, scuttlemutt) instead of something I'd be willing to break singleton for. (In scuttlemutt's case it doesn't require color-related cards, but what's the point if you don't have them?) I don't want to vote with a "well I guess if I had to pick one" mindset.

 

[Dom Harvey]

I'm stunned that Young Pyromancer has 4 votes.

 

[Chris Taylor]

I'm voting for splinter twin, but not for the reasons the author described.
I think it adds an interesting tie for red to the classic (usually bant) blink deck, and twinning reveillarks or Acidic Slimes is bound to lead to some interesting decks.
It also solves both problems that crystal shard had in my opinion: It required way too much mana and had the feel bad of your opponent mostly blanked in the removal department.

I think it'd make an interesting card to cube with, ONLY IF you don't have that stupid infinite combo bullshit that people justify by going "Well, we have a lot of instant speed removal in cube, so it should be fine right?"
Spoiler: No it wont. And even if it is, it will never feel good when your opponent doesn't have it and you just kill them on your end step.
Also, it's another solidifying reason to play esper, (the colors with hard removal) and if you're vintage level power maxing, I doubt you play much else.

I'll say this CML: You've convinced me to remove my second copy of Knight of the Reliquary, and I don't know where that puts the article
I hate tutoring, though I'm almost sure that comes from trying to make EDH fun. Lacking a utility land draft, KotR (lol dat acronym) in my cube is exactly what I want it to be: A larger than average beater with some added utility, not this weird build around me card I want to add multiples of.

As to the other articles: Props to Scuttlemutt, That was one I didn't see coming. It's an amazing concept, and I love the civic saber tech, but you may have gone too deep for me Sudden Demise seems absolutely tailor made for that cube though. Deffinitly my choice for runner up, and it's a lot more implementable than you might think (Jason's super hybid/Alara-Blades cycle/civic saber aggro cube anyone?) but just not where I'm at (yet).

As for Kindle/AK: I think Kindle might be playable if it did 3 initially, but it still wouldn't be interesting. AK I don't think there's much saving, and in case you werent part of that era of standard: Whoever plays the first AK loses. You don't want that to be the environment you're crafting.

Young Pyromancer: So I'm a bit biased since I already run x2 pyromancer, and while i'll admit he's probably the most interesting 2 drop red has ever gotten, the article itself didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know, even considering my baseline experience with the card. Maybe that's unfair, too bad.

I think the Phyrexian Metamorph article might have started from a flawed premise. This is the kind of contest which really appeals to insane off the wall liberal cubing, and basically no matter what card you suggest the hardline MTGS crowd is going to shoot you down. Writing to play to that crowd seems a fools errand, even considering the demographic here

Lastly: Tinker sounds awesome, and just sounds so not me Sorry!

 

[Chris Taylor]

Also: Did anyone consider AEther Burst? That's a multiples card I wouldn't be embarrassed casting the first time.

 

[James Stevenson]

Also: Did anyone consider AEther Burst?

Actually that sounds awesome!

 

[Spiderdoofus]

I'm voting for splinter twin, but not for the reasons the author described.
I think it adds an interesting tie for red to the classic (usually bant) blink deck, and twinning reveillarks or Acidic Slimes is bound to lead to some interesting decks.
It also solves both problems that crystal shard had in my opinion: It required way too much mana and had the feel bad of your opponent mostly blanked in the removal department.

I think it'd make an interesting card to cube with, ONLY IF you don't have that stupid infinite combo bullshit that people justify by going "Well, we have a lot of instant speed removal in cube, so it should be fine right?"
Spoiler: No it wont. And even if it is, it will never feel good when your opponent doesn't have it and you just kill them on your end step.
Also, it's another solidifying reason to play esper, (the colors with hard removal) and if you're vintage level power maxing, I doubt you play much else.

Since the contest seems pretty much decided, I'll say I submitted Splinter Twin. I underestimated how much people hate combos in cube here; I often hear from people who wish there were more combos in cube. I actually was hoping the response would be more like yours. I imagined that Twin would be more of a value card most of the time, and in retrospect, I wish I had emphasized more stuff like Gitu Slinger or Avalanche Riders. I thought people would dismiss it as being too weak without the combo potential, and that people would think the combo was exciting.

I think there's enough removal to make it feel fair, but it will lead to some steamrolling. I think that happens anyway though, like with ramp into Craterhoof Behemoth. I don't want the power level in my cube to be flat, and I don't want games to be won the same way. I'm ok with T4 combos sometimes for the stories and because it helps create the feeling that anything is possible.

I also think that when you only draft portions of a cube and not the whole thing, combos like this become much harder to pull off. The pieces might not be there, or maybe you only get one of each piece and it never comes together. I think the sweet spot is to have it be something that can come together every once in a while, but not enough pieces that it happens whenever anyone picks up Splinter Twin. For me though, the combo potential is part of the fun of the card. I also think that it forces red to play differently than just being aggressive, and could act like a finisher of sorts in a red/blue/x etb creatures control deck.

 

[Eric Chan]

To briefly address the topic of combo in cube, Jason has actually kind of solved the problem with his Gravecrawler innovation. The deck isn't the type of instant-win combo you see in constructed, but more of an aggro-combo hybrid that can switch gears from getting in for two in the red zone to repeatedly lobbing artillery at the enemy ranks from afar. Knowing when to go back and forth between aggro and combo modes is gratifying for the pilot, and the small creatures that are the heart of the archetype still leave plenty of room for interaction from the opponent.

I don't mean to outright dismiss your entry of Splinter Twin, as like I said in my response, I think there's plenty of potential for it to be used in value situations. But I also feel that people (and not you necessarily, but those same people you hear from) are trying to jam combos from constructed directly into their cubes willy-nilly, when there are better, more natural ways of integrating it.

 

[CML]

I like the Twin idea, a control deck with a combo finish is something I've been inspired to look for because of it.

To that end: Imperial Recruiter

 

[Jonas]

Double up on Venser, riftwing cloudskate, manowar, and suddenly you can make a fun and interactive prison deck

 

[Jason Waddell]

I know the Young Pyromancer write-up was a little lacking, and in retrospect maybe it seems like an obvious suggestion, but I had never thought of it, and it's the one I think I am most likely to include from this contest.

 

[Laz]

I will own up to the Scuttlemutt suggestion (although I am still abstaining from the vote)

After doing the research and write-up, I am actually really keen to put a whole Cube environment like this together, where colour plays an important role. I have a horrible suspicion that it will involve a lot of custom cards, and a lot of power-level analysis (because based upon the cards that do exist, it will be a much lower power environment, probably with slower removal). For this I will probably have to reach out to you guys for help, so look forward to some sycophantic messages post Christmas...

Also, I like a lot of the suggestions made, and while I won't be enacting all of them, it did make me examine new cards, and I will probably end up throwing a second Young Pyromancer into my Cube soon. As for Splinter Twin, I have a 3 card lower bound for infinite combos...

 

[James Stevenson]

I will own up to the Scuttlemutt suggestion...

Welcome to the site! I look forward to you having more than 4 posts. I loved your suggestion and I'm really hoping something good comes of it.

 

[Chris Taylor]

I will own up to the Scuttlemutt suggestion (although I am still abstaining from the vote)

After doing the research and write-up, I am actually really keen to put a whole Cube environment like this together, where colour plays an important role. I have a horrible suspicion that it will involve a lot of custom cards, and a lot of power-level analysis (because based upon the cards that do exist, it will be a much lower power environment, probably with slower removal). For this I will probably have to reach out to you guys for help, so look forward to some sycophantic messages post Christmas...

Also, I like a lot of the suggestions made, and while I won't be enacting all of them, it did make me examine new cards, and I will probably end up throwing a second Young Pyromancer into my Cube soon. As for Splinter Twin, I have a 3 card lower bound for infinite combos...

Can't wait to hear it! Like I said, Sudden Demise seems fuckin perfect for this cube, chameleon spirit less so

I'll say I already play double pyromancer and he's been great. I'm seeing him more in mono-red burn than UR spells, but maybe that's just my drafters.