Erik's "The cool side of Magic" cube

[Erik Twice]

Really, if I start running custom cards soon my cube would be 80% custom or slight variants!

Still, I'm extremely happy with how 20 Fetches, 20 Duals have turned out, I've been thinking to increase to 25 Fetches or add another 5 mana-fixing lands.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Really, if I start running custom cards soon my cube would be 80% custom or slight variants!

Still, I'm extremely happy with how 20 Fetches, 20 Duals have turned out, I've been thinking to increase to 25 Fetches or add another 5 mana-fixing lands.

I feel personally attacked

 

[Erik Twice]

Attacked? Not at all! Think about how much better Magic would be if all colours had access to mechanically-appropiate card draw or removal and how the cards you have put in your cube work towards that goal

Still, I'm a bit tired of working on my cube. The main issue is that I mostly test by drafting on my own and I tend to draft the same way. The possibilities are there but I'm too close to the design to know what can be done with it beyond the same four-five interactions I put in. I always say that critics make poor designers and viceversa, working on the cube reminds me of it.

Anyways, I removed most of the questionable cards remaining in. I cut all the artifact creatures that supported an artifact creature theme and most of the questionable picks I had lying around. Blue and White haven't gotten a full revision but they are playable. I could simply the 10 cards or so I'm currently missing for color balance, tweak things a bit and have a nice cube. It's very vanilla but it's fun and the decks I've build work well.

Would really welcome some thoughts on how the cube looks, I'm too used to it to be able to tell.

---

At a glance, I think there could be three ways to take the cube to the next step:

1) Increase the power level and the "spicyness". Aim for more exciting matches and very broad archetypes through color-fixing.
2) Slighty reduce the power level and aim for a grindier , more Ravnica-ish format. I'm not sure I have the skills to build a format like this and the result could be pretty complex.
3) Iterate to increase cross-pollination between archetypes, broadening them so, for example, blinking some green or black creatures isn't a bad idea.

But I think things are ok and I should just revise, print my proxies and take it for testing at the boardgame club. Let's see it in person first, then decide!

 

[Nanonox]

I do a few different things when I'm stuck on my cube:
- Take a few days off even thinking about it
- Draft other people's cubes to see what I like/dislike
- Come back to my original cube goals and see if I am still building the cube towards them

Here are some observations looking at your list

- Almost no enchantments in white for Replenish and Rector. Only a few worth cheating out in the cube (1000-Year Storm, Bargain, Sandwurm Convergence) but they don't necessarily have anything to do with the enchantment subtheme. So either add some more explicit support (like Cast Out, Lay Claim or sagas for Replenish) or scrap the theme.

- I like Oketra's Monument, but I wonder if you are supporting it enough with a lone Kor Skyfisher. Stonecloaker is a cool one for saving your guys or GY hate that supports it.

- Maybe it's just me, but Hymn to Tourach sucks to play against. It can randomly lead to non-games if unlucky.

- Your red 3 drops aren't supporting aggressive decks very well I think compared to the other slots.

- Krosan Tusker seems slow and weak (still sweet!) compared to the rest of your green dudes.

- Quirion Dryad seems out of place as a random spells matter/storm card in green. While more expensive, Managorger Hydra is more universally playable.

- What decks want to play Metalworker? I only saw a few red artifact matters cards and they care about the GY.

That's all I have for now. I'm sorry I focused mostly on the negative, but there are plenty of good things going on too. For example I like the Naya land recursion/destruction package.

You are right that you should just print the proxies and give it a go. That will give you so much more information. Ask the players also how they felt!

 

[Erik Twice]

No need to apologize! Criticism is welcome, and that includes what doesn't work with my cube.

Your thoughts are interesting because they mirror concerns I already have.

- I haven't been able to get Replenish/Rector to work and I'm not sure I can get an enchantment theme going while supporting the graveyard and artifacts. Interestingly, while I've managed to build some working Zur The Enchanter decks, there's very little crossover between the big two white cheaters and him. I hadn't considered Sagas as a way to power Replenish, though, that seems interesting.

- I don't have much experience with Oketra's Monument and, at first, thought it could go into any creature-heavy deck and be worthwhile. It seems this is not the case!

- Hymn to Tourach is...mean, but I like the historicity of the card and the role it plays in decks. It's also not bad enough for me to be worried about its effects.

- It's true. One of the problems of my red cards is that they are a bit forced. For example, there's Goblin Guide and you can force a typical aggressive red/white deck. However, the overall composition of the red creature base is not that geared towards it. Same goes for all other archetypes. I wonder what I can run to help the curve.

- All my big green dudes are placeholders. I don't know which fatties to run at my power level and with the restrictions of Sneak Attack/Reanimator in mind. Krosan does have a few nice tricks: It self-bins and gets you a land! But it's probably getting removed when I get a clear idea of what to do.

- I hoped Quirion Dryad would see play in the typical "UG Tempo" builds, but those builds aren't coming together or are too green-based for Dryad to be great.

- Metalworker has worked well so far. It tends to go into big mana decks, the kind that play Gilded Lotus, Wildfire or big white/black mana control spells. Other cards in the archetype have fared worse, partly because there's not that much to ramp into in my cube at this point.

I'm really glad you like the land archetype. It needs some work because it's on the weaker side, but it's very fun.

 

[Erik Twice]

I took Nanonox's advice and didn't work on the cube for a few days. When I came back, I felt I came back to the problem with a better perspective. So it was great advice, thank you!

First, I'm going to revise my green top-end to look like this:

IN



I'm told Titania is kind of busted and I run the cards to make it so (Zuran Orb!) but I'm going to run it as a placeholder. I want fatties that signal a lands theme.

I'm not fond of Pelakka Wurm but it's a very fair card that works well in all archetypes so it's in.

I'm going to test Avenger of Zendikar. Unlike other green fatties, it's not a great reanimator target and giving a player a lot of blockers doesn't seem too bad when it lacks trample and is not overly easy to cast. I'm a bit worried because I'm not judging the power level of the card properly, but I'm sure you guys can tell me not to put it in if you think it's wrong to do so

Primeval Titan is really strong, but I kind of like the card. It's going on my watchlist for now.

OUT

or

These are all cards that were underperforming. Dryad is a very nice card but Green is rarely the splash. Druid and Wayfinder are out for now, as the graveyard theme is not supported enough for them to matter. And Sandwurm Convergence simply doesn't seem better than an actual creature.

These changes leave me with 3-4 free slots.


POTENTIAL CHANGES

Some things I'm considering:

- Remove Sneak Attack and Through the Breach to make room for 2 other cards.
- Refocus my Lands archetype. I know GR is the core of the deck but I'm not sure where to support the third colour. White seems obvious and has the right tools, but Blue has Trade Routes and Tatyova, while Black has discard synergies.
- In general, the cube needs more cards that benefit from discarding cards like Wild Mongrel.
- There might be enough cards with Embalm to justify the mechanic. I'm trying to replace or reduce the number of cards that use a mechanic not found anywhere else in cube. I actually wish Cubetutor would track of all different mechanics used in a given cube.
- I need a new name for my cube!

 

[Erik Twice]

First, I've enjoyed the thread on the UR artifacts archetype and I think I'm going to change Blue a little to put the key cards in. Note that Blue still hasn't been revamped from scratch.

IN



Some of the suggested artifact cards.



The two Embalm cards that are worth playing, at a glance.

Alesha, who was recommended and seems to have a lot of interesting synergies while supporting aggro.

Also, testing Form of the Dragon again because it may work in WR big mana control or with Replenish or something.


OUT



I love Colossus and have real nostalgia for the card. It just...cannot be played by the vast, vast majority of decks. Not even big mana decks can play him. Out he goes.

 

[Erik Twice]

So, I went and listed all the White cards I'm 100% sure about to rework the colour from the ground. This is what I got:

CREATURES (20)




SPELLS (4)



Just 24 cards, but they contain the core of the colour. All the important cards for the Blink and Spells archetypes are there, as well as some good stuff picks that see plenty of play. At a glance, I can safely say the above list contains the majority of cards seeing comfortable play in the colour.

WHAT'S MISSING?

In my mind, there are three missing card types in the above list: Bussiness spells, Wraths and White build-arounds.

BUSSINESS SPELLS

I'm not sure how much removal to run in White and I have doubts about the quality that would suit it best. Given I run very high level black removal, it would make sense to run something similar in white, but a bit slower or with some drawbacks (like sorcery speed, cost, etc.). White is very often a support colour and gives control to colour pairings that lack them, like GW. I want to run about 6-7 of them and there are already 2 on my list. Something like this:



WRATHS

I currently run three "Wraths": Fumigate, Catastrophe and Cataclysm. I'm a bit mixed about them. Fumigate is about right, but Catastrophe has not fulfilled its role as a second-tier Wrath or a second-tier Armaggedon and Cataclysm is a build-around, not a card most decks would be interested in. I think I need about 2.5 cards with this effect and they should all haev a concerted mana cost of 5. Note that I'll probably run a 4cc wrath in Supreme Verdict.


BUILD-AROUNDS AND SUPPORT

One of the things I noticed while writing this list is that the Shelter I ran was the "good-stuff equivalent" of a blink spell. That is, Shelter was a good card that was taking the place of a card that was a little bit more interesting.

On the other hand, my support and build-arounds were very lacking. I had a bunch of "token" cards that were uncomfortably high on the mana curve and plenty of potentially great cards that simply didn't work, like Replenish or Academy Rector. Or that are a bit questionable, like Land Tax. I like Land Tax, but wish it would give you the lands once instead of every single turn.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I'll say it again:

 

[Erik Twice]

But but it doesn't destroy any lands! How can it be good?

So, I went, took all the cards except the ones lined up above and thought about what directions to take the colour from there. I saw a thread on WR Artifact Aggro, and it seemed good on paper. After all, I already support Red Artifacts, so it seemed an obvious direction to take. I had also been playing some Boros Artifact Aggro on Pauper and saw the crosspollination there. Most importantly, it seems supporting this angle requires very little effort on my part. Here's what I added:



I was surprised at how versatile some of these pieces are. Bygone Bishop replaces Mentor of the Meek, Countless Gears Renegade is an overall good card, a body for Aristocrats and gives an artifact. Also, a blink target. Stoneforge Mystic requires no explanation (though I should add some more support), Shrine of Loyal Legions replaces Oketra's Monument which is similar but has a lower floor. Solemn Recruit is just a great card, and c'mon it works with fetchlands, that's not difficult.

Ethersworm Canonist is a test. There's a very high chance it's going to be replaced. And Ichor Wellspring is just more versatile than I gave it credit for. It's not awful if you "cycle" it and it helps a lot of archetypes.

Here are some decks I've drafted on Cubetutor as a test. They seem fun!

Boros Artifact Aggro from CubeTutor.com

Bant Aggro from CubeTutor.com

Abzan Aggro 2 from CubeTutor.com

--

I've also been thinking about the Lands archetype and reached the conclusion white is only good in so far it gives you wrath effects. The actual land-matters cards aer either busted but not overly synergetic (Land Tax) or simply nice haves that you wouldn't play in the deck if you really cared.

Most importantly, I think "return lands to hand" is important for the archetype in cube. It's the only way to bridge the gap between "discard lands for value" and Crucible effects. I'm considering moving the archetype to GRU for that reason. The fact that U has interaction, draw and even some archetpye-relevant cards (Like Betoya) tells me it's the right direction to take.

--
EDIT: I'm also going back to Oversold Cemetery over Oath of Ghouls. Ghouls is more powerful and more fun, but I keep putting Oath in decks where it's not sure I'll have more creatures in the graveyaerd. It's more of a combo piece than a value engine.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

But but it doesn't destroy any lands! How can it be good?

Have you ever played this?

They get to keep their Filigree Familiar (artifact and creature, that's handy!) and their Curse of Chains, and sacrifice Talrand, Sky Summoner, two drake tokens, Urza, Lord High Artificer, and Mind Stone. You get to keep your Glare of Subdual, your Solemn Recruit, your Loxodon Warhammer, and sacrifice your Hangarback Walker with three counters on it, and the creature that was enchanted by the Curse of Chains.

Obviously that's just an example, but if you have a nice spread of artifact (and enchantment) creatures, you can get some really exploitable board states. In my cube it's not uncommon for my opponent to be left with a lonely Servo token to my two impactful creatures. The card no only is a delight to play with, it actually has impact on the draft portion as well, because it promotes picking up a diversity of card types

 

[Erik Twice]

Ah, I was just kidding Ondeerzeeboot! It does seem like a good, interesting card and more versatile than Cataclysm. And yeah, I haven't played with it. I did play with Cataclysm a bit back but it's not like I have a lot of experience with that card, either. You seem very right in that it's underrated and choosing is a big advantage that is often overlooked.

 

[Erik Twice]

I'm very happy with how the cube is turning out after these last set of changes. The decks are less on rails, more interesting and more fun than before. I see more cross-pollination and less obvious targets for obvious archetypes. I think reworking white has opened as many possibilities as adding double-fetches did. Certainly it was one of the most important changes I've introduced.

I think that reworking blue and my guild section should put the cube at a point in which I can just print it, start collecting cards and make minor changes as needed. Thanks everyone for your help!

 

[Erik Twice]

Before reworking blue, I've done some minor changes to fill empty spaces, better support archetypes and the like.



I needed more equipment and I decided to run Mask of Memory. It's a good card, with some play and which promotes a different kind of deck than Bonesplitter. I think I'll make tweaks sooner or later to make UG and UW tempo decks more viable and Mask of Memory should see play in both.

Smallpox used to be in my cube and I think I finally have enough support for it. Not a particularly important pick but it's good enough to test.

Spined Thopter and Vault Skirge are an attempt to increase the number of incidental artifacts, better support aggro and also add more flyers. I'm not sure what impact they'll end up having but they seem worth testing.

I have never played with Pacification Array but I've seen many people run the card and I have always wanted to play with Icy Manipulator. While less versatile and more expensive to activate, it seems a better incidental artifact than Manipulator is.

Tinker comes back! After many tweaks and cuts I've found myself with few artifacts that would make it overpowering, making it a more interesting pseudo-value card and artifact payoff. The best cards it can find are Gilded Lotus, Mindslaver and Platinum Angel and I'm more than happy with that.

Avacyn's Pilgrim and Search for Tomorrow might be raising my ramp a bit too much (I go from 9 to 11 ramp spells) but I was growing frustrated with Green not providing adequate support because it didn't have enough mana dorks. There's few things sadder than dipping into green with the idea of playing midrange only to end up with 1 Llanowar Elf and a bunch of overcosted fatties. I suspect the Cubetutor bots are taking the dorks too aggressively, but I have no way to test for now.

Yavimaya Elder is a good stuff card with incidental discard and lands value. Probably unnecessary.

---

I hope that reworking Blue will open up a lot of doors. For example, it's surprisingly rare for a UB to come up naturally when it should be one of the archetypes that should exist through the sheer force of its components. I also hope it can enable better decks where blue is a support colour. UW Blink works great, as does UW control, but UG seems wonky and there's not that much variety for the other combinations.

It also seems to me that I should run slighty less creatures in all colours but green.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Tinker comes back! After many tweaks and cuts I've found myself with few artifacts that would make it overpowering, making it a more interesting pseudo-value card and artifact payoff. The best cards it can find are Gilded Lotus, Mindslaver and Platinum Angel and I'm more than happy with that.

If that's the best Tinker can gets, how exciting is the card going to be though? Is it still worth it at that point?

 

[Erik Twice]

If that's the best Tinker can gets, how exciting is the card going to be though? Is it still worth it at that point?

Sure, why not? It's a fun tutor because it has a cost and it puts the card directly into play. Getting a cheap Mindslaver if you pass through some hoops seems exciting to me. After all, I'm running Trash for Treasure which is a worse Tinker and Goblin Welder, which often gets killed on sight and that's still fun.

 

[Erik Twice]

All right, I made a list of the blue cards I'm most sure about as well as some support cards.

22 Spells



I want to try triple Brainstorm but will probably go back to Preordains and the like soon.

19 Creatures



Most of the creatures are typical goodstuff. Ruinator, Tradewind Rider and, perhaps, Cloudfin should promote a larger blue presence in creature-heavy decks.

That's 41 cards, so I can add other 12. Plenty of room to tweak and add cards. Some cards I might or might not add are:



In the end, I decided to cut my Control Magic slot. It's yet another 4cc card and blinking Guilded Drake or Hostage Taker is much more interesting.

I've also made a list of all 3-colour combinations and it seems blue is in all heavily-developed combinations except Mardu:

UBR: Control reanimator
WUG: "Key piece aggro". Think Glare of Subdual, Survival of the Fittest, Tradewind Rider, etc.
WUR: Spells Matter, Artifacts, Blink
URG: Lands

UBG: Graveyard-based value
WUB: No idea, probably control

 

[Erik Twice]

So far Blue looks great! I've been making some small tweaks:

IN



I've been thinking about how to make Tempo more viable so I went and checked my list for flyers and other creatures that could carry Mask of Memory. And I found myself thinking "It's a shame Looter il-kor works but Thought Coutier doesn't". Which made me wonder why I was not run two copies of the card that works instead of a copy of the card that doesn't?

Standstill is a great design and, at a glance, should be good in Tempo, Land-based decks as well as being an interesting splash for low cost builds. It seems worth testing and I hope it works.

Geist replaces Supreme Verdict. I wanted a UW creature to support an aggressive strategy and it seems the most obvious signpost. It seems very strong, but I do like the minigame it creates.

The other pairing I'm working on is UG and Mystic Snake supports the pairing well. It's an overall good card but it also has some nice aspects to it. You can tutor it with Survival of the Fittest, you can blink it or return it to your hand and it takes a slot in UG instead of the 6-cost slot Draining Whelk would take in blue.

OUT



I'm beginning to think Supreme Verdict is the wrong card to run in the UW section. Quite simply, being able to wheel it because nobody else at the table can support WWU or because it doesn't work in aggro is not okay by me. I don't think one should be able to get a Wrath that easily and it has consistently lead to dekcs in which you draft the white drafts first and then get the rest for free. Truth to be told, 3 Wrath effects in the same 40 card deck is obnoxious and Verdict was enabling it far more than it should.

Zur is a casuality of my tweaks. There are no longer enough enchantments in the right colouors and at the right cost to justify him. I should rework my whole guild section but so far I'm just taking this one out.


I've also been taking some notes. I have a fair bit of chaff in Green that I can replace with either graveyard-support (Satyr Wayfinder, Golgari-Grave Troll) or cards that support the UWG shard, like Ambush Viper.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

You could always try Time Wipe if you're looking for a more forgiving wrath effect.

 

[Erik Twice]

You could always try Time Wipe if you're looking for a more forgiving wrath effect.

For me the issue is that I don't like UW Control getting a free wrath because nobody else can play it. There's simply aren't enough decks that want a wrath and can pay WWU. There's going to be, at best, just one player at the table on that combination so it felt kind of dumb.

--

Anyways, I'm finding myself in a very surprising situation: I don't know what to do with all these free slots! I have some possible picks, but I have plenty of room for archetype support and just general goodies. Guess I'll have to go to the drawing board for a bit because "add Oppossition" and "Forbid might be totally fine" are not the lines I should be thinking on.

 

[Erik Twice]

I'm still unsure of what to do with all the slots I have on blue and white, as well as the handful of cards in other colours. Since I don't know what to do, I decided to focus on what little tweaks I had pending.

First, I completed my white removal package. I'm not very fond of it, because it's quite aimless but it should do the trick for now:



Feel free to make any suggestions on how to improve it.

--

Blue would welcome a big creature finisher, partly because of control and partly Renimator is in UBR. I've thought about a couple creatures but they seem snowbally if you cheat them into play:




I'm much more fond of creatures that provide value like these which I'm already running in UBR:



Really love Crater Hellion, it's such a well-designed card.

--

A part of me also wants to run lots of cards like this:




But that's dangerous, parasitic territory.

 

[Erik Twice]

Ok, time to work. First, adding some more blue creatures as a test. I'm not sold on any of them so feel free to share your thoughts.





Kira is an archetypical Ux tempo card. Having to hit it twice is big, but I don't remember it being overly annoying or oppresive back in the day because it's a 2/2. It's also bad with equipment but all equipment on my cube costs 0 or 1 to equip with the exception of Loxodon Warhammer, which I don't think wants to be in this deck and shouldn't (Ugh +3/+3 lifegain with counter backup).


I'm going to try Sharding Sphinx and see how busted it is with Reanimator and Tinker. On one hand, it seems strong because it snowballs, on the other, is it more unfair than Platinum Angel? It does leave some tokens behind but hey, it's worth testing. Concensus is that it's somewhat underpowered but that

That's 21 creatures. I can run a 22nd. Some potential candidates:

 

[Erik Twice]

The next thing I wanted to work on was graveyard support as well as GB as a colour combination. The house of The Rock is a natural goodstuff colour but as I changed my cube it slowly dissapeared as an archetype that came up naturally in comparison to WB and others.



Winding Way is a better (more versatile, playable) Mulch. Which is a shame because I like Mulch's art quite a bit more. I mean, I get it, but the snake just looks bad.

A part of me thinks Regrowth should be another Eternal Witness.

Vessel of Nascency is the third filtering card in green. Seems enough.

Golgari Grave-Troll is the graveyard staple. I hope he sees actual play instead of being a free "mill 6" card.


Rotting Regisaur. One of the problems black has is that it relies on U and R to actually discard cards. I hope Rotting helps in this regard and I hope his huge size is more fun than dumb.

Hermit Druid. Card advantage and milling your graveyard. Either him or Golgari Grave-Troll should probably get out but I want to test which one I keep. Thoughts?

--

Other than Loleth Troll, I'm not sure what to run in the Guild slot. There's nothing that really grabs me and I'm sure I don't want big sweepers like Pernicious Deed. Why not try something spicy like this?



--

These additions also means my green section is now a mess. There are too many cards, most of them unfocused. I should make a lot of cuts but so far I mostly see this one and perhaps the newly reintroduced Regrowth:




I also added some cute and not so cute cards:



Obsessive Search: With the amount of looting effects on blue and red, it should see play and it's not bad if you just play it as a Prowess trigger.

I'm not sure how good Snakeform is, but it does give removal of sorts to blue and green which don't have many. It will probably not make the cut.

Explore replaces Kodama's Reach because it's more powerful and Kodama's Reach was not fitting enough decks.

Upheaval because I have free slots and want to try it out again. Will probably get cut again.

 

[FeedEd]

What about Ransack the Lab?
It is isn't flashy, but helps UB and GB

 

[Erik Twice]

What about Ransack the Lab?
It is isn't flashy, but helps UB and GB

Ransack the Lab would work! However, I'm very happy with how Regisaur and other "discard" effects are working. It gives the colours a bit more separation in mechanics. This kind of "Impulse" effects go in Green, Black gets discard outlets and Blue and Red get looting effects. So I'm going to keep it in mind but probably not add it for now.

Someone just drafted a graveyard deck that looks pretty damn strong:

Triumphforks's draft of Staple cube on 09/09/2019 from CubeTutor.com