General Fight Club

Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Kinda funny they were printed in the same set.

I wonder how often Soul is getting activated in practice. 5-mana is okay if used proactively (on your combat step) but feels like a ton to keep open if you're not already ahead on board.
 
Tyrole

Tyrole

vs.

Here's one I've been debating in my cube. Is the 2 mana activation on Puppet too much? Is the untap flexibility worth it? Puppet is in my current cube, but I'm not sure I have seen anyone use it for anything but tapping down enemy creatures.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
I actually did swap memory lapse for a second remand, which I think is better.
Everyone seeing more cards > everyone seeing less.

Also: I would run 10 miscalculations if I had the foil ones.
Condescend is another sweet one BTW. I basically treat is as a 2cc counter even if it can be more than that
 
GenericZero

GenericZero

Miscalculation is probably the fairest one of them all, and I personally love it. As far as "soft" counters go it is basically mana leak early and you can just filter it if it is useless to you later on. Remand is good, too. I shouldn't need to explain why.

On another note, all hard counters should cost at least UU and not provide any additional benefits unless they cost at least 3 mana.

Condescend is about as good as an X spell counterspell can get. I dig it.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
GenericZero said:
Miscalculation is probably the fairest one of them all, and I personally love it. As far as "soft" counters go it is basically mana leak early and you can just filter it if it is useless to you later on. Remand is good, too. I shouldn't need to explain why.

On another note, all hard counters should cost at least UU and not provide any additional benefits unless they cost at least 3 mana.

Condescend is about as good as an X spell counterspell can get. I dig it.
Click to expand...

Also the difference between 2 and 3 is noticeable for playing around it.
 
Lucre

Lucre

The right cube really rewards people for picking up Daze.
I tend to like Memory Lapse a lot in non-blue decks and decks with things like venser and clique in it, but I can agree that there are better options, I just like what a hard wrench it throws into the works splashably, and more or less whenever you need one.

I'm sure everyone is already sick of hearing about this but when Eric was complaining blue's counter suite had gotten a little dull, I was giving him this advice (Eric cube's modern)

Swap the existing Rune Snag (x4), Remand, Condescend for Remand (x2), Mana Leak (x2), Condescend (x2)

I really like remand, it's like rarely not netting you tempo dollars, even when you are just trying to cycle it. It reminds me a lot of miscalculation, kinda better against late game plays though.

I really like condescend but I don't think it's amazing in most people's cubes.

As to the question how many? I'd say try to fill out the two slot before any other. 2cc counterspells are sort of all pretty moderated these days, but they all feel a lot better than drafting a 3cc one. Fill out your blue staples and then see how much room you have for spells that don't influence what is already on board.
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
No, I think everyone actually wants to hear more of your opinions about how (you think) blue plays in my cube, actually.
 
Lucre

Lucre

I'm not here to argue Eric. Anotak told me I should look at this thread because he knows I love blue 2 cc spells. Discussion of my suggestion to you was not the bulk of the post and I submitted no personal opinions on your cube in the post. You know I like rune snags a lot. I'd even recommend it to this guy, but he probably hates the idea of doubling up on things when there is a glut of options.
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
As long as we agree that arcane denial is awful in anything but an extremely high power level variance cube (where paying 2 mana to give the opponent a divination is actually worth it to counter certain spells) I think we can all be friends.

Daze is a first pick card quality card in my cube and certainly the only counterspell that I run that I would consider P1P1. Forbid and Mana Drain would also be in that conversation if they didn't suck so much.

I like the contrast of Remand and Memory Lapse and how they push the game in different directions. Both are probably on my Never Cut Ever list.

In addition to the above, don't forget Evasive Action.

As for how many to run, I think .5 per player feels just short, so maybe 5 in a 360? Then you've got counterspell and cryptic plus your 0-1 mana counters, which I find to be the most important (as well as the most difficult because the options are limited, I had to make a custom to get where I was happy).
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

I don't think you need to counter Jitte or Ancestral Recall in order for Arcane Denial to be good. It's a 1U hard counter that draws you a card. Yes it gives your opponent two cards (so net -1 CA), but there are plenty of times that is worth it (wrath for example if you've got a bunch of dudes on the field).

In the right deck, it's great in the same way Goblin Guide and Master of the Feast are great despite being pure card disadvantage tempo cards. Just my 2 cents.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

Grillo_Parlante said:
I actually thought that was a pretty slick play back than; accept I was comparing it with ancestral recall. :oops:
Click to expand...

The only problem is it costs you 2 mana plus the cost of the spell you are countering - all to net essentially one card next turn (since you just wasted two cards doing the "combo"). I don't know. I suppose if you were desperate and had a useless 1 mana card in your hand you didn't mind countering.

I've snakeformed my own dude before to draw a card, so these scenarios can certainly happen I suppose.
 
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