General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
green is better at dredge than madness if all you need is to get stuff into the yard:
OH
Faadiyah Seer!
Faadiyah Seer!
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Ravnic explicitly supports the 
madness deck, so self-mill unfortunately doesn't do it for him.
madness deck, so self-mill unfortunately doesn't do it for him.
@ravnic, are you looking for something that you aren't getting out of Wild Mongrel and Noose Constrictor? My first recommendation is just doubles of those.
I already run six colorless discard outlets, including Key to the City. Soon it will even be seven, with my new toy The Underworld Cookbook.You can explore colorless options?
I like both of these quite a bit.
Green is also dredge in my cube, and I already run a bunch of the many great self mill cards.green is better at dredge than madness if all you need is to get stuff into the yard:
As Onde said, I explicitly support a madness archetype, in
, and while they have quite a bit overlap, not all payoffs work with selfmill too (Basking Rootwalla). I'd still like another discard outlet in mono green, currently running these four only:Wild Mongrel
Noose Constrictor
Borderland Explorer
Fauna Shaman
I know it is probably considered conservative around here, but I really like sticking with singleton. It is max variety, it is easy to communicate to drafters, and it makes me often think of creative ways to find solutions to my problems, it's challenging me as a cube designer.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Have you tested this one?As Onde said, I explicitly support a madness archetype, in
There aren't that many options. Doubling up really is the cleanest and most effective way that I see for this slot. But I respect if you want to stick singleton. It's just that there isnt much room to stretch the "creativity" for this particular slot. There are only a handful of options printed period. Like, since its an aggro deck this can theoretically be helpful?
I appreaciate your help so much guys, but I'm not sure either of these cards would be a good choice. Arkbows activation cost makes it really ugly with keeping madness costs open. And while it matters less within green (many of the payoffs actually have flashback, embalm etc.), I want it to work with Stromkirk Occultist and Just the Wind.
And the drummer might have the coolest mustache ever, but it isn't anything more than serviceable in the madness deck and will never see play outside of it. That's just not a good card to add for my cube.
I'm actually thinking of adding Gnarled Professor, but somehow sharpied in a way, that it just rummages on etb, as I don't run any lessons currently. It doesn't allow keeping much mana open, but it has a strong body aggro decks would want anyway and it works well enough as a discard outlet for Roar of the Wurm or Anger. Maybe.
activation cost makes it really ugly with keeping madness costs open. And while it matters less within green (many of the payoffs actually have flashback, embalm etc.), I want it to work with Stromkirk Occultist and Just the Wind.And the drummer might have the coolest mustache ever, but it isn't anything more than serviceable in the madness deck and will never see play outside of it. That's just not a good card to add for my cube.
I'm actually thinking of adding Gnarled Professor, but somehow sharpied in a way, that it just rummages on etb, as I don't run any lessons currently. It doesn't allow keeping much mana open, but it has a strong body aggro decks would want anyway and it works well enough as a discard outlet for Roar of the Wurm or Anger. Maybe.
if narcissism cost G it would be kind of a sweet engine for a heavy GY deck
Just pull out the most riptidian implement and it can be so!
vs
Sacrifice is a thing. Self mill/discard is a thing. Power matters is a thing (but less so in black).
Either/neither?
I would personally think that the Unwilling Ingredient would fit into a wider set of decks if it works in the overall power level of your cube. Nested Shambler isn't that exciting of a floor if the power matters themes aren't primary in
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, I agree with sigh. Unwilling Test Subject has menace, which helps ninjas if you play those, and it does something from the yard regardless how it got there. Nested Shambler is obviously better with sacrifice effects though. I also think it's especially hilarious with Warped Physique
i REALLY like the frog. for shambler to work you’d want an environment where Deathknell Berserker also works, which is kind of a rare bird.
In a vacuum, I'm more interested in Shambler due to the higher upside. Ingredient is the more versatile of the two, but its ceiling to me is "serviceable glue", never upset to have, but never excited either. As a glue card, would it be filling a design hole?
A poor man's Doomed Traveler isn't an awful baseline. You run enough in black to make it interesting with all colors except blue:
Not to mention any colorless cards.
In your cube, I like it especially in Rakdos and Golgari. It seems average in Orzhov....and poor in Dimir. Ingredient seems solid in all colors.
A possible knock against Shambler: Ingredient at a glance adds a little more balance to your Black section by having some mill/dredge synergy. Shambler further tilts Black's focus towards sacrifice.
A poor man's Doomed Traveler isn't an awful baseline. You run enough in black to make it interesting with all colors except blue:
Not to mention any colorless cards.
In your cube, I like it especially in Rakdos and Golgari. It seems average in Orzhov....and poor in Dimir. Ingredient seems solid in all colors.
A possible knock against Shambler: Ingredient at a glance adds a little more balance to your Black section by having some mill/dredge synergy. Shambler further tilts Black's focus towards sacrifice.
Unwilling Ingredient has appealed to me quite a lot in Strixhaven. Menace is useful enough in the early turns to get a few free points in, and then the second ability sets nicely in the midgame.
Well you lot have been no help whatsoever 
I think my sensible head says the frog is 'better' (but boring), but the wrangler is more interesting/exciting. Will mull some more - thanks all.
I kind of like only have four one drops. The others are stitcher's supplier, carrion feeder and cryptbreaker. I'm least fussed about cryptbreaker, but it doesn't sit right to swap that out for one of the two under consideration.
I think my sensible head says the frog is 'better' (but boring), but the wrangler is more interesting/exciting. Will mull some more - thanks all.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Sounds like the Zombie creature type and sacrifice synergy are valuable as well for you. Tough choice.Well you lot have been no help whatsoever
I kind of like only have four one drops. The others are stitcher's supplier, carrion feeder and cryptbreaker. I'm least fussed about cryptbreaker, but it doesn't sit right to swap that out for one of the two under consideration.
I think my sensible head says the frog is 'better' (but boring), but the wrangler is more interesting/exciting. Will mull some more - thanks all.
Oh god, I think I might do it, I think I might cut cryptkeeper and add them both! What a madman!
I think I dropped Vesperlark when Kirb pointed out it went infinite with Felidar Guardian and a sac outlet. Felidar Guardian is clearly the problem, but there's only a limited number of universal blink/self bounce that are feasible. The only other option is Glimmerpoint Stag, which is great, but the risk of aggressively blinking villains bounceland on the play is too painful.
I think I dropped Vesperlark when Kirb pointed out it went infinite with Felidar Guardian and a sac outlet. Felidar Guardian is clearly the problem, but there's only a limited number of universal blink/self bounce that are feasible. The only other option is Glimmerpoint Stag, which is great, but the risk of aggressively blinking villains bounceland on the play is too painful.