General Fight Club

[Onderzeeboot]

Oh god, I think I might do it, I think I might cut cryptkeeper and add them both! What a madman!

I think I dropped Vesperlark when Kirb pointed out it went infinite with Felidar Guardian and a sac outlet. Felidar Guardian is clearly the problem, but there's only a limited number of universal blink/self bounce that are feasible. The only other option is Glimmerpoint Stag, which is great, but the risk of aggressively blinking villains bounceland on the play is too painful.

Armageddon is in pie, doooo it!

 

[inscho]

Oh god, I think I might do it, I think I might cut cryptkeeper and add them both! What a madman!

I think I dropped Vesperlark when Kirb pointed out it went infinite with Felidar Guardian and a sac outlet. Felidar Guardian is clearly the problem, but there's only a limited number of universal blink/self bounce that are feasible. The only other option is Glimmerpoint Stag, which is great, but the risk of aggressively blinking villains bounceland on the play is too painful.

Is more than 4 in white necessary? You have Kor Skyfisher, Shepherd of the Flock, Emancipation Angel, and Leave // Chance...as well as Angelic Purge to deal with Demonic Pact, and Charming Prince as more blink support....not to mention a once in a blue moon convoluted blink engine around Oblivion Ring and Cloustone Curio

There's also Flicker of Fate that hits all but 23 of your nonland permanents.

 

[sigh]

v.

Sacrifice is a theme, in RB primarily, as an aggressive strategy. There is a loose counters "theme" in GW, and a equipment/power buffing matter theme centered in RW.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

v.

Sacrifice is a theme, in RB primarily, as an aggressive strategy. There is a loose counters "theme" in GW, and a equipment/power buffing matter theme centered in RW.

Oh shit, Fain is exactly what I was looking for for my 360/100 cube! I had done multiple searches on cards that intersected between artifact and creature sacrifice, and somehow never entered the correct ones to find this gem! I even own a copy (assuming this is from the Strixhaven Commander decks), how embarassing!

Anyway, if you don't mind, I'm going to cut the Yahenni's I was running up until this point!

I don't know if that answers your question, but if not, you've at least helped me! Oh lord, the interaction with Marionette Master is just juicy! I might want this in my actual cube!

 

[inscho]

How valuable is a free repeated sac outlet for you?

I'm leaning towards Yahenni, because you say sacrifice is an aggressive strategy, and Yahenni particularly excels at steering sacrifice in that direction. I really appreciated how it helped keep my sacrifice decks from always getting bogged down in midrange interactions which is already where sacrifice tends to gravitate to. A knock against it is that it doesn't have much appear to have much appeal in Dimir in your cube.

Fain has lots of juicy interactions, but is fairly slow. It has a lot of draw as a card in draft, and will push your sacrifice theme towards more midrange intricacies. I see the decision having a decent impact on how your sacrifice decks manifest, so it's more about what you want out of the archetype. Fain seems to appeal to all four black guilds fwiw.

This seems relevant again. Maybe I should make this guy my avatar:

 

[blacksmithy]

My green section is currently very cantrippy but kinda lacking in the stomps department, so i am looking to cut down on this kind of effect to make room for some Goyf-type critters. What’s your evaluation of these 3 against each other?

 

[ravnic]

I like Wall the most, as a 0/4 is usually better than a 1/1 in the decks that are fine with a below curve, cantripping body.

However, I think I'd also like Branchwalker slightly more, as it's not unplayable as an aggro 2-drop.

Then there's also this guy, which only draws you lands but fills your graveyard. For my cube, he's the best choice.

 

[blacksmithy]

thanks! that’s kind of where i fell too, with the wall probably being the most generally useful and visionary being the worst.
i actually already cut wayfinder because he performed very poorly at my last cube night- the only time my opponent felt “bad” in any of the games was when he cast wayfinder, and he felt bad every time he was cast - twice binning a bunch of relevant cards for a land opponent didn’t even truly need, and once whiffing entirely.

 

[sigh]

Sounds a bit like the deck your opponent was playing wasn't really designed to have a wayfinder in it. Regardless, if the feel bads are an issue, Branchwalker definitely avoids some of that by being more like a scry effect.

 

[blacksmithy]

yeah, what i realized is that my whole environment isn’t really designed to have wayfinder in it. yards fill up FAST with no help needed from self millers, and since most decks operate fine on 2-4 lands, the 2 mana landtrip effect isn’t valuable either. not to mention the 1/1 body being more or less blank. Branchwalker has a much easier time staying relevant as it can draw a card or surveil 1 and still attack for 2+

 

[ravnic]

I think the most important question with Wayfinder is: can it draw you realistically draw you two cards sometimes?
If your environment is designed in a way, that some of your green decks will regularly mill 1+ lands AND something like Roar of the Wurm or Deadbridge Goliath or Genesis (you get the point), then the card advantage would make it good, even when you don't really need the land.

 

[blacksmithy]

yeah, that’s where it falters. Green decks MIGHT be running 17 lands but probably more like 15, and while there are things like Vengevine and Lingering Souls in the format, you’re much more likely to want to bin lands and grab a nonland than the other way around. my new format and wayfinder are just not a good match.

 

[blacksmithy]

 

[inscho]

When would you want unbridled growth over abundant? I mean I can think of some rare instances…unless I’m missing something…?

 

[japahn]

As a player, pretty much never, but Unbridled Growth is more interesting since it asks the player whether they are done with the fixing and can cash it in for a card. I don't think I'd maindeck Unbridled Growth very often in your cube, though.

 

[blacksmithy]

i maindecked both the other night and actually found myself liking Unbridled a little more, because…
-i can control when i draw, and the draw is “free” when i activate it
-it gets me a Delve mana or a Delirium type, both very relevant
But both provide a cantrip and fixing and a prowess/storm count for 1 mana which is also quite nice!

 

[Jason Waddell]

Unbridled also triggers Revolt, if you're into that.

 

[ravnic]

I want a gold card that combines two themes: tokens, which is primarily green and tertiary black, and sacrifice, which is primarily black and tertiary green.



I haven't really seen the enchantment in action yet, and I still think it is very close to perfect. But the squirrel is so cool.

 

[Jason Waddell]

You can also try Deathreap Ritual, which is often stronger than Moldervine.

 

[blacksmithy]

squirrel costs a lot less than the enchants, presents a credible threat, and has a sac outlet built in… obviously testing is required but i think it’s worth a shot over a 4 drop and a 5 drop that don’t affect the board.

 

[alvoi]

Is something like Brood Butcher too powerful?

 

[Jason Waddell]

Is something like Brood Butcher too powerful?

I don't really think it was too powerful in its retail environment, so I'd say likely not.

 

[ravnic]

Brood Butcher is cool, but I run some Eldrazi Spawn making and I try to avoid also having eldrazi scions, to also avoid confusion among less enfranchised drafters. Really bad decision from wizards changing that token imo.

I also chose Reclamation over Ritual as I wanted it to be only your creatures, but potentially mutiple times a turn. I like the very few gold cards be very clear "signposts" or inspirations for the directions that color pair could go. And I'm fine with some more narrow ones, gold cards are narrow anyways in my environment, so let them be build arounds.

I'd also argue that Reclamation affects in some way, as they really don't want to attack into a lone groupof saprolings anymore uness it's really worth it.

I guess I kinda conviced myself to stick with the enchantment for now and let it have it's chance. I only remember seeing this in the pool once in a 2-man draft and I was too far off already to pick it late. But if it underperforms, I'll add the squirrel. Still wish it's activation cost was

 

[TrainmasterGT]

I want a gold card that combines two themes: tokens, which is primarily green and tertiary black, and sacrifice, which is primarily black and tertiary green.

I haven't really seen the enchantment in action yet, and I still think it is very close to perfect. But the squirrel is so cool.

Ravenous Squirrel is a much more flexible card than Moldervine Reclamation, and it can act as both an enabler and a payoff in its own right. Furthermore, since sacrifice is only tertiary in green in your Cube, having a card that can be played in mono-black sacrifice in addition to black-green is hugely beneficial as well. Moldervine Reclamation, by contrast, has to be played in a deck with both green and black sources in order to do anything, and won't necessarily start drawing cards for a turn or two after it comes into play.

Ravenous Squirrel seems to be the clear winner between these two cards. It's more flexible, less risky to play, and an enabler in addition to being a payoff.

 

[ravnic]

Yeah, if it as just for sacrifice, I'd be totally with you. But I think in a deck mainly focused on creating and utilizing a bunch of tokens, I'd rather have the enchantment. The squirrel costs three to sac and thus you won't be able to use this many times in a turn, thus you don't profit from a huge board as much as you'd do with reclamation or free sac outlet like Phyrexian Plaguelord. The biggest reason I like reclamation more for this particular job however, is that you can (threaten to) trade of a few tokens against their dudes and draw a bunch of cards plus lifegain.