Can't believe we haven't had this one yet:
Discuss!
Discuss!
General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Master and it isn’t particularly close, simply because you can actually cast it sometimes
I think Master is just way better overall. Additional upside with the Surveil 2, in a better color combination to take advantage of discard/looting synergies, relevant card type, and I feel like it's just a generically useful body in most U/B shells. Just a really solid glue card. Squee is fun to do cutesy stuff with or if you have something dumb that breaks the game ala Recurring Nightmare, but if you're missing the 2nd part then it's kind of meh recurrable fodder nowadays. If you're got some cool discard synergies then its definitely better, but I don't know if it quite gets there anymore in most cubes.
And this is coming from someone that used to jam it all the time in R/x EDH decks just to get extra value out of Faithless Looting and Tormenting Voice when draw options sucked.
And this is coming from someone that used to jam it all the time in R/x EDH decks just to get extra value out of Faithless Looting and Tormenting Voice when draw options sucked.
oh yeah, i jam Squee in any EDH deck that produces red, he’s an awesome durdle machine and does great things for niche (and not so niche) strategies.
in heads-up, 40-card play though, i don’t want a completely dead uncastable card in hand just on the off chance i draw other cards that can discard it so i can then get it back into hand. that’s squee- and master of death breaks that mold by being castable.
in heads-up, 40-card play though, i don’t want a completely dead uncastable card in hand just on the off chance i draw other cards that can discard it so i can then get it back into hand. that’s squee- and master of death breaks that mold by being castable.
Am I right in thinking that these are all drastically different? I can't figure out which 0-4 of them I want. I'm not currently running reanimator, as it's a burdensome task, so I suspect the spells are out? Is Lamia a hair too slow? Does Entomber get there in time? Are they all bad if you're being fair?
Entomb itself is sweet if you have the right support. I would maybe try it and Gravebreaker if I was running a slightly lower power graveyard-centric environment.
I would run Entomb since its small cost opens up more possibilities, like getting a Gravecrawler into the yard. Unmarked Grave is the same card at a slighty higher price.
I wouldn't run the later two as getting to 4 and specially 5 mana renders the whole point moot. Lamia is better as a 4/4 Lifelinker than as a synergy card.
I wouldn't run the later two as getting to 4 and specially 5 mana renders the whole point moot. Lamia is better as a 4/4 Lifelinker than as a synergy card.
If your environment is such that it’s easy to draft and play Entomb as a cantrip and/or combo tutor, that’s the one. The others are all pretty overcosted for what they do IMO, with the exception that Lamia is a reasonable threat in retail environments. The MH2 cards cost too much/bodies too small compared to entomb and lamia.
Vile Entomber is looking a lot better in draft testing than the credit he's getting here. It has deathtouch, which is aa awesome ability for a value reanimator/recursion deck that is more about grinding than just comboing off ASAP. Getting a card into the grave by turn 4+ is definitely not a moot point in those decks, and often the defensive body will be more valuable than a middling-at-best threat. Often you are tutoring the actual threat to the GY, so it's a bit of a non-issue.
Entomber is also just... really convenient in the curve at CMC4 with a surprisingly high number of cards
That said, I also do like the Gravebreaker Lamia. Just different slots with slightly different effects on the decks they go in. I have other things I'm doing with the 5 slot, and the Entomber is working perfectly fine in the 4 slot.
Entomber is also just... really convenient in the curve at CMC4 with a surprisingly high number of cards
Firebolt
Kaleiodscorch
Unburial Rites
Goblin Dark-Dwellers
Archfiend of Sorrows
Body Double
Karmic Guide
Reveillark (with sac outlet that isn't it's evoke cost)
Worm Harvest
Kaleiodscorch
Unburial Rites
Goblin Dark-Dwellers
Archfiend of Sorrows
Body Double
Karmic Guide
Reveillark (with sac outlet that isn't it's evoke cost)
Worm Harvest
That said, I also do like the Gravebreaker Lamia. Just different slots with slightly different effects on the decks they go in. I have other things I'm doing with the 5 slot, and the Entomber is working perfectly fine in the 4 slot.
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i always forget entomber has deathtouch… that’s a huge positive on that body
I’m in the Vile Entomber camp myself.
It’s essentially a 2 for 1 as the body will trade for a ground creature and the card you are getting in the GY should do something (Vizier of Many Faces to keep the chain going, Honored Hydra for a fatty, Stinkweed Imp for an enabler,...).
Creatures are easier to recur so some potential there.
Plus bonus zombie for a solid deal.
It’s essentially a 2 for 1 as the body will trade for a ground creature and the card you are getting in the GY should do something (Vizier of Many Faces to keep the chain going, Honored Hydra for a fatty, Stinkweed Imp for an enabler,...).
Creatures are easier to recur so some potential there.
Plus bonus zombie for a solid deal.
This I didn't notice! That makes it extra double gassy with one of my faves Gisa and Geralf. Can be recurred and can bin another zombie for the duo.
So, I'm working on re-imagining my "pirate cube" (where Revel in Riches' effects are always in play), and I'm stuck between the following Green 4-drops:
vs.
The basic question is whether or not winning off of 5 treasures (by casting Second Harvest on villain's end step) is sweet or toxic...
vs. The basic question is whether or not winning off of 5 treasures (by casting Second Harvest on villain's end step) is sweet or toxic...
yeah, in general it seems like a bad idea to require stack/hand interaction in low power environments.
NOW she's back!
Needs conteeeeeeeext
but that's wooooork... meeh.
Repeatable discard outlet to power a broad spectrum of various GY strategies, with a heavier focus on supporting reanimation type strategies, which is what my Bx GY decks tilt towards. Recursive aggression and grindiness are both supported.
This is basically what I'm looking for I think. The discard outlet part is basically equivalent between them, how the bodies match up in testing is I guess what's up for debate.
I like Dragoon as an aggressive tempo discard outlet. A 2/1 dies to everything so you are banking on a full graveyard to be relevant in combat. We need a 1/3 for 1B that gains deathtouch when you discard
There's no good repeatable discard outlet for Reanimator at your power level in black right now. Best bests are one-shotters like:
There's also Undead Gladiator which is repeatable in a very specific window of time and resource dependent.
Zombie Infestation is very narrow. Call the Bloodline is only once a turn. Rotting Rats is decent but obvs not repeatable. Tortured Existence is super cool, but limited to creature discard, and requires at least one creature in graveyard.
I like Raven's Crime as it is good in aggro, combos with loam shenanigans and spell triggers, and you can target yourself in a pinch...but it has feel bad potential if your players get easily discouraged.