It's tough but I like Fires for the flexibility.
General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
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Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Fires can also go the face, or help finish off a larger creature after combat damage. I would go with Fires.
That's what I thought too, just wanted some other opinions on it. Would adding 
seem redundant since I already have in my Rakdos pile?
On a similar vein, here's a couple more face/off's for your consideration:
VS
Recoil is obviously the stronger one, but I think Grasp has it's advantages as well. It just gives you more information.
AND
VS
Here once again, the Command is stronger as it's more versatile. But I think it's still pretty close.
And remember, all these are for a MORPH cube.
What say you?
seem redundant since I already have in my Rakdos pile?On a similar vein, here's a couple more face/off's for your consideration:
VS
Recoil is obviously the stronger one, but I think Grasp has it's advantages as well. It just gives you more information.
AND
VS Here once again, the Command is stronger as it's more versatile. But I think it's still pretty close.
And remember, all these are for a MORPH cube.
What say you?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I love Recoil. It's the best example in Magic of the sum being greater than the parts.
Selesnya Charm's make a 2/2 dude is a nice way to kill an unsuspecting attacking morph actually, and once unmorphed, I think there'll be a fair amount of 5+ power targets? Most of them will be green though, so there's that. Dromoka's Command lets your morph kill their morph (+1/+1 counter & fight), and is a bit more verstatile.
Selesnya Charm's make a 2/2 dude is a nice way to kill an unsuspecting attacking morph actually, and once unmorphed, I think there'll be a fair amount of 5+ power targets? Most of them will be green though, so there's that. Dromoka's Command lets your morph kill their morph (+1/+1 counter & fight), and is a bit more verstatile.
I love Recoil too. Just wondering if River's Grasp might be an interesting pick over the obviously better card, since it gives a bit of information?
Yeah, both the Charm and Command are great, which is why I have trouble picking one over the other.
I personally prefer the charm. The command is decent but the charm does what most GW lists need. It grants a body when you need it, big trample when you need it, and it's removal when you need that. Dromoka's command is basically Hunt the Weak except it is sometimes countering burn or killing an enchant(which G/W has the easiest time doing as is)
I also think Charm has just incredibly sweet art. It just feels juicy to play it, even if its more efficent than it is splashy.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I liked Wrapters take on the Command though, sometimes they will block your 4/4 with their 4/4, and you get to put a +1/+1 counter on your 4/4, then fight one of their smaller creatures with another one of your creatures. Charm can never do that.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I cube all three of those cards and like them all a lot, but 4 mana white cards are just bloated with awesome cards. On raw power level, I'd cut Eidolon first. On swinginess, I'd cut Angelic Destiny. On being unfocused goodstuff, I'd cut Siege.
so i thought all the sieges were horrible, then i cubed Citadel Siege exactly once, turns out it was completely bonkers busted for the Khans half alone and then i immediately cut it at the request of my playgroup
Citadel Siege can't be THAT oppressive, can it?
i think it's the consensus best card in fate/khans/khans draft, and might still be the best card in dragons/dragons/fate, so... yes?
if a traditional white weenie deck was at all viable in standard right now, we'd probably be seeing a lot more of siege (and also Dictate of Heliod)
if a traditional white weenie deck was at all viable in standard right now, we'd probably be seeing a lot more of siege (and also Dictate of Heliod)
How is there NOT a viable white weenie deck? Dragons seems to be granting it all the pieces it was missing. 3 mana dude that hits for 4 and has xstrike? Check. 2 or more 2 power guys for 1 mana? Check. Good field pump? Check.
You see where this is going, right?
You see where this is going, right?
i'm not following standard closely at the moment, but i suspect the prevalence of tokens (and that being the de facto aggro strategy, outside of RDW) has something to do with it
what's something a Mardu Woe-Reaper really doesn't want to see? two soldier tokens or three goblin tokens
what's something a Mardu Woe-Reaper really doesn't want to see? two soldier tokens or three goblin tokens
there are a lot of reasons small creature decks are easy to maindeck around, take splash damage from existing sb hate and take a lot of splash damage from heavily played cards.
There were 2/1 decks at the start of the format but they really died out. People are much more interested in the reach red can provide as well. As people start using more utter ends and bitter revelations and cutting satyrs, token instants, blights and carytids and coursers those decks might see more play but it's really hard for a white attacking deck to beat siege rhino midranged and decks built to beat up on tokens. Also the control decks have to fight constant haymakers so wraths are totally a thing.
There were 2/1 decks at the start of the format but they really died out. People are much more interested in the reach red can provide as well. As people start using more utter ends and bitter revelations and cutting satyrs, token instants, blights and carytids and coursers those decks might see more play but it's really hard for a white attacking deck to beat siege rhino midranged and decks built to beat up on tokens. Also the control decks have to fight constant haymakers so wraths are totally a thing.
vs Okay so the question behind this is, which one to add to my cube.
I don't have tinker/show and tell anymore, so that easy t2-3 Sundering Titan can't happen too often.
My cube already has 1 Myr Battlesphere in there and the Welder-plan needs more artifact targets.
What my logic at the moment is that the safe route to better games would be a second Myr Battlesphere, but Sundering Titan adds more variety to the cube.
Can't decide if Sundering Titan is acceptable without the stinky Tinker
By the same token I don't think running eesh norn sounds very fun I'm going with battlesphere. At least you can like, wrath or doom blade it or something, sundering titan can just end games when cast in an uninteractive way.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
My cube already has 1 Myr Battlesphere in there and the Welder-plan needs more artifact targets.
Did you consider any of these?
I think all of those are more interesting than a second Battlesphere or a first Sundering Titan.
Did you consider any of these?
I have 4x Aether Searcher in my cube, because my gaming group likes them a lot and they are more interesting than Inkwell Leviathan etc.
Duplicant i added this morning again.
Scuttling Doom Engine is in there.
Soul of New Phyrexia i took out because it was useless.
Precursor Golem left my cube a while ago, maybe i could add it again now that it has more appliances for it, but it doesn't fill the big reanimator dude -role.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Four! Haha, ok, lol. Hmm... Maybe the real fix would be to slim down your cube to a size where you don't need as many targets? Going back from 720 to, say 450, would be a real challenge, for sure, but it's probably better than including questionable cards. An added bonus is that the Welder-plan would also show up more consistently if you went down in size.
Having so many Aether Searchers is necessary, because it is a high pick for any strategy wanting to cheat it into play or ramp in to it.
If i have Inkwell Leviathan instead, the reanimators and welders would only pick it. Thus i wouldn't need to add as many, since decks wanting it will probably get them.
720 has worked really well for us.
Adding multiples in 720 makes some unplayable archetypes (wildfire,welder,aluren,enduring renewal,birthing pod) a way to compete, but doesn't happen in EVERY single draft.
Sometimes you have 2-3 alurens in the pool and 0 welder, or the other way around, that is what i am aiming for.
I really don't want to have a cube that always has the certain pieces floating around and players just have to memorize the exact deck you can build from my cube.
Questionable cards are sweet, because you get to brew your deck, not just add the most powerful stuff in your colors/archetypes together and win "easily".
I find it interesting to try to win games with stuff like Bridge from Below or Bitter Ordeal, instead of always turning my dudes sideways / reanimating a fatty / countering + removing your opponents cards and attacking with a Baneslayer Angel
Not sure if you catch my drift from all of this, but yeah.
360-card cube can be made efficiently, but you would lose the element of brewing with non-optimal cards. I don't want that. My gaming group(s) don't want that.
If i have Inkwell Leviathan instead, the reanimators and welders would only pick it. Thus i wouldn't need to add as many, since decks wanting it will probably get them.
720 has worked really well for us.
Adding multiples in 720 makes some unplayable archetypes (wildfire,welder,aluren,enduring renewal,birthing pod) a way to compete, but doesn't happen in EVERY single draft.
Sometimes you have 2-3 alurens in the pool and 0 welder, or the other way around, that is what i am aiming for.
I really don't want to have a cube that always has the certain pieces floating around and players just have to memorize the exact deck you can build from my cube.
Questionable cards are sweet, because you get to brew your deck, not just add the most powerful stuff in your colors/archetypes together and win "easily".
I find it interesting to try to win games with stuff like Bridge from Below or Bitter Ordeal, instead of always turning my dudes sideways / reanimating a fatty / countering + removing your opponents cards and attacking with a Baneslayer Angel
Not sure if you catch my drift from all of this, but yeah.
360-card cube can be made efficiently, but you would lose the element of brewing with non-optimal cards. I don't want that. My gaming group(s) don't want that.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I personally have a 450-card cube, and I would say it definitely is not super efficient, and it definitely still has room for darlings, and not all of the pieces show up all of the time. It feels a lot tighter though than a 720 I would bet. But, well, it was just a suggestion to attack your problem from another angle. Do with it what you will
I personally have a 450-card cube, and I would say it definitely is not super efficient, and it definitely still has room for darlings, and not all of the pieces show up all of the time. It feels a lot tighter though than a 720 I would bet. But, well, it was just a suggestion to attack your problem from another angle. Do with it what you will
This is becoming an off-topic discussion pretty fast, but this is interesting !
Tight is something that i really try to combat against by having 720.
I try to add more non-universal playables to take out the usual cube experience: "look, i have 40 playables in here and i can only use 23 of these".
Aggro is still too tight and wins all the time, but the reason isn't only the cards in my cube, but the way my gaming group(s) like to play.. they don't care that much if aggro is strong, they will pass mass removal and spot removal for sweeter things.
Not many here have 720 (it seems), so i wonder if anyone really tried to make 720 work or did everyone just go for 360 - 450, so it is easier to make it "tight" and singleton?
EDIT: Or is it because it is cheaper? Or is it that some of you don't have 8-player drafts, so 360 is big in that sense?