Quirion Dryad and it isn't even close. Grows really fast in a low-cc environ. Kudzu is a bit too lazy and one-dimensional; play lands, or maybe a Harrow, I guess? It's mostly quite a slow grower, though. Dryad doesn't have that issue; she can shoot up several +1/+1 counters each turn, depending on deck composition. She's also really "fun" in that regard, which is valuable.
General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
vs.
I prefer daze. It feels less one dimensional than force spike. I've cubed both and they're definitely more exciting if your environment is on the faster side; they end up dead less often.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I would also vote for Daze. Depending on your environment you might also want to try out these though:
CML
Contributor
I would also vote for Daze. Depending on your environment you might also want to try out these though:
nah to all of these
Ooh, the infamous card among infamous cards!
(dryad is cool, kudzu isn't, but the main issue is these guys really suck to topdeck. Goyf fixes the problem elegantly with a power-defining ability, so I like it the best. I also have goyf proxies, so secondary market price isn't a factor)
Does it make Vanillain feel bad for playing spells, due to those spells sometimes pumping up tarmogoyf? You're already in proxy territory, would it become totally unloveable if it only counted your own graveyard, and got a consolation bump up to 1/1 base stats?
From my own experience facing down goyf in constructed or cube, it's never made me feel bad for casting spells. It's another thing you have to bear in mind but I imagine the circumstances where it's correct to not cast something into goyf are few and far between. Couple that with the fact that the card types that grow it most easily (instants, sorceries and fetchlands) are also the most common, frequently casting spells won't make a difference anyway, unless you're playing Bitterblossom into your opponent's Wickerbough Elder and if you're doing that I don't know what to tell you.
Spell Snare is awesome - besides the fact that most people's cubes run more two-drops than cards at any other cmc, it gives the blue deck some action while on the draw, while the vast majority of counterspells are stronger on the play. More than that, it always kills the thing dead, and leaves you tempo-positive. (Oops - a penny for the swear jar.)
I like it a lot more than other narrow
counterspells, such as Spell Pierce.
I like it a lot more than other narrow
counterspells, such as Spell Pierce.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I will point out that mana tithe is basically the spanish inquisition
On the various counterspells mentioned, I like Force Spike and Daze, but not Spell Snare at all. I much prefer the spikes because you can always play around them while still casting all your spells, so even the blowouts feel like your own mistake. Spike/Tithe also do something that I feel fundamentally adds a layer of depth to the game. Generally, the optimal way to play out the game is to curve out perfectly. But these cards punish you severely for doing so and demand you find an alternative sequence to play your cards. The very presence of these cards in the format makes players think twice about playing in what is usually the optimal way, even against most countermagic. The result is more bluffing and more varied and interesting games. Even with a lot of possible targets, I don't think a counter like Spell Snare can have this effect since you can only play around it by not casting a subset of your spells at all. Granted, there is still playing around it in the form of sideboarding into your curve being a mess and brainstorming away 2 drops if you're playing that kind of cube, but I don't see those scenarios being particularly fun or even effective ways to deal with a single card.
As far as Spike v Daze goes, I'd rather have Spike for the leaving up U to bluff it tech.
As far as Spike v Daze goes, I'd rather have Spike for the leaving up U to bluff it tech.
vs I really wanted to cube Roast, but fat fliers remain a bit of an issue for red, and I don't mean for them to be. That said, I reeeeally dislike how efficient Slash is. Or maybe there's a better option for only-targets-creatures removal under 3cmc that isn't Mizzium Mortars?
Laz
Developer
Curses, I was just going to suggest Mizzium Mortars.
I am a pretty big fan of Flame Slash, it is efficient, but always feels conditional enough to not make me feel bad about it. I perhaps love casting multiple spells a turn and holding mana open more than most though.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I still think the right answer is mortars
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I've always gone with flame slash over roast, and have never ended up actually running roast. The difference between four damage and five damage is pretty significant in its own right, and the efficiency of it makes it easier for aggro decks to run.
It totally is but I have one already and I definitely don't want to run 2
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I've actually "solved" this exact conundrum with a custom card.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Bootman, I love a custom as much as the next guy, but what is going on with that art? And what does turkey have to do with exiling creatures?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
noun: loose temporary stitchesBootman, I love a custom as much as the next guy, but what is going on with that art? And what does turkey have to do with exiling creatures?
verb: cover with liquid before cooking
verb: sew together loosely, with large stitches
verb: strike violently and repeatedly
English is not my native language. I found this in a dictionary, but it could totally be that this is some obscure definition that no native speaker ever uses. I'm open to suggestions, preferably ones that fit the current art so I don't have to go find a new one.
And the art? Well, the art just shows a lot of fire and some people who are definitely not coming back to life. Ever. Again.
noun: loose temporary stitches
verb: cover with liquid before cooking
verb: sew together loosely, with large stitches
verb: strike violently and repeatedly
English is not my native language. I found this in a dictionary, but it could totally be that this is some obscure definition that no native speaker ever uses. I'm open to suggestions, preferably ones that fit the current art so I don't have to go find a new one.
And the art? Well, the art just shows a lot of fire and some people who are definitely not coming back to life. Ever. Again.
I didn't realize it meant that, but frankly, I liked it when I thought it was referring to a cooking technique. Just gotta change the art to an American Thanksgiving turkey or something.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Haha, well, if imagining a psycho covering his victims in scalding hot liquid before cooking them works for you guys, I guess I don't have to change the name after all
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Huh, learn something new every day
It's a hard mechanic to convey, for sure. Like whats' the common thread in these spells?
It's a hard mechanic to convey, for sure. Like whats' the common thread in these spells?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
The card plays brilliantly by the way. In testing I already used it on all of these (and more):
Meren is awesome, you really don't want to have to remove her more than once, and decks running her usually have a way to bring her back a second time. Same goes for Karador obviously. I haven't used it on Flesh Carver yet, but I like that it does enough damage to negate one activation, and prevents the demon token from spawning. Wizards should totally print this (and not fuck it up by making it, but hey, what are the chances of that...).
Meren is awesome, you really don't want to have to remove her more than once, and decks running her usually have a way to bring her back a second time. Same goes for Karador obviously. I haven't used it on Flesh Carver yet, but I like that it does enough damage to negate one activation, and prevents the demon token from spawning. Wizards should totally print this (and not fuck it up by making it
, but hey, what are the chances of that...).
Meren is indeed awesome. It's my favorite Golgari card now. It's a build around that does everything that color combination wants to do and it's very satisfying to play (though can be frustrating to play against). Low power environments (especially ones with a heavy GY theme) probably can't run this without it being completely busted though. That's the only negative. Oh and the art is amazing.