General Fight Club

RavebornMuse

RavebornMuse

I run Obstinate Baloth as a more "fair" Thragtusk, but the discard clause is strictly trinket text - I'm all about the life gain (and even there, it's barely holding its spot). Loxodon Smiter, on the other hand, is an undercosted beater as a 4/4 for 3, which sounds kinda good - however, that it's multicolour really downgrades it to just "okay". Unless your format is dominated by Grey Ogres, Smiter is gonna be extremely narrow and not a very juicy pick.

IMHO (and a lot of this is thanks to Jason's philosophy on multicolour cards you've probably seen in some of his articles), you have to consider that multicolour cards only really go in an extreme minority of decks ({W}{G} ones), so, in a typical environ, your multicolour cards need to be really fun, really powerful, and/or extra spicy. In all three of these regards, Loxodon Smiter only really has the potential to be valuable as "really powerful", but again, to make it really count as "really powerful", your format's going rate on 3-drops should be about 2/2 vanilla for a 4/4 that's two colours to do anything more than wheel forever until it gets to a {W}{G} player as a boring, but undercosted, beatstick.
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
I actually run both of those, and like RavebornMuse, the discard clause is strictly flavour text in my cube. Obstinate Baloth is a big Kitchen Finks, while Loxodon Smiter has actually overperformed - both on the battlefield, and in the pick orders - as an undercosted Rumbling Baloth. Hey, some nights you just want to draft Big Dumb Animals, and that's exactly the niche that Smiter fills!

Funny enough, I'm also running Wilt-Leaf Liege, and I completely forgot she even has that discard text. She's there purely as a creature lord. Turns out the anti-discard creature suite is all baller, even disregarding that clunky extra text.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I think Baloth is a pretty important card in my cube, the lifegain is pretty invaluable. I don't really see a need for Smiter in my environment though.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I run both Smiter and Wilt-Leaf Liege, but not Baloth. Considering my cube's focus on multicolor I wouldn't put too much weight on my opinion though. Anyway, what I can say is that the discard rider is mainly just fluff, though every once in a while you "get" the player with Liliana of the Veil, and that's okay with me. I'm afraid that means for most cubes your vs is kinda moot, since Baloth and Smiter fill very different roles.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
safra said:
I like Chain of Smog bc you can play it in the same deck as the Baloth or Bloodghast(yr Villain controls the copy), smallpox is cute and grindy, and Last Rites gives combo Reanimator a piece of interaction that's also an enabler.
Click to expand...

I cut chain of smog because it was almost never ever correct to send it back.
Like I'm totally fine with {1}{B} mind rot, but theres just so much extra text there for basically no reason. (ATM I run BB rebound target opp discards a card)
 
RavebornMuse

RavebornMuse

I've been doubled up on Stromkirk Noble and Monastery Swiftspear since my cube's creation. It works fantastic in my environ - the Noble grows well and plays in the +1/+1 counter theme, and with all the humans, he actually does have relevant evasion in a fair number of matches, especially if he runs out early. I find that he grows faster than Champion of the Parish while requiring a more aggressive build to do so, which is something I really like; it gives a real texture to {R}-based aggro as a distinctly more aggressive form of aggro in my cube (as opposed to {W}-based aggro, which is more of a hateful beast, and {G}-based aggro, which is very resilient early on and leans towards an early-midrange beatdown approach).

Monastery Swiftspear is a fantastic card to run in multiples because spells-matter is a lot of fun and it's easy to get value off of her. I will say that she's very format-dependent to be good; if you don't have a wealth of cheap {R} spells, she's going to do a lot less work. Flashback and retrace cards help push her even harder, and the ever-popular double Magma Jet can keep the gas running in that deck. A 1/2 with haste is really not the best in the world, but the reality is she's often at least a 2/3 when she swings, if not bigger, if you've pushed your curve low enough. That extra point in toughness is what really makes the card; being able to block very profitably and turn a trade into a chump block at instant speed is not to be overlooked, and the intimidation factor of "do they have a spell to cast or not?" can help ensure she swings in unopposed, even on a bluff. The urge to bluff an instant or trick can also help newer players learn the value of playing cards in their second main phase, which is just a small thing that newer players tend to take a while to value. The haste is also spicy for a late-game zerg-in for the win; I've dropped Monastery Swiftspear, Reckless Charge, Assault Strobe a few times now, and swinging in for 12 damage like that is pretty bonkers when your opponent is tapped out/just swung in themselves. I think she promotes a lot of very interesting decision-making, and she's a nice backbone piece to a Spells-Matter theme, pairing lovely with Abbot of Keral Keep, Young Pyromancer, and Guttersnipe to really wreck face.

Re: White Walkers, I think Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is a really powerful design and not really something I'm personally looking for. Elspeth Tirel is in my opinion the fairest and most interesting white Planeswalker available, as she promotes token strategies but can also do quite well in straight-up control decks, provided they're built properly. Compare this to Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Gideon Jura, or Elspeth, Knight-Errant, and you'll find that she's really one of the few planeswalkers that is both exciting to play and not necessarily a force that will win the game by herself, which is a rare quality as far as planeswalkers go and the only sort I really want to sleeve up anymore.
 
Mondschwein

Mondschwein

I know my feedback rate is underwhelming, yet I read everything you folks answer to me and, in contrast to my very own speaking skills, fully understand what you're telling me. Thank you for still answering, as I find it myself somewhat disencouraging to answer if I know that I won't always get back something.

..so! :>

VS

cc4 sorcery vs cc5 instant, the latter being potentially a tad more frustrating for the opponent.
 
whydirt

whydirt

Wave sends stuff to hand while Aetherspouts sends them to the library, so it's a bigger difference than just cost and speed.
 
Mondschwein

Mondschwein

whydirt said:
Wave sends stuff to hand while Aetherspouts sends them to the library, so it's a bigger difference than just cost and speed.
Click to expand...

That's what I meant saying 'potentially a tad more frustrating'. Not my mother tongue, but I do have a weakness for stylistic devices like understatements.
Compared to cc5 wraths which are the only real sweepers in my cube those are the only blue pseudo-mass removal spells I'd consider. AEtherspouts only hits attacking creatures but is one-sided, so in some match-ups it's pretty dead (control) while in others it's quite busted (aggro). I think I'll go for the wave.
 
shamizy

shamizy

Aetherspouts has too many situations where it just won't come through. What if your opponent is attacking you with just one big guy and holding back other attackers after seeing it in G1? Can you afford to keep up 5 mana for multiple turns? Evacuation just seems better to me if you're looking for a mass bounce effect at 5.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb


Seriously, it's awesome! Only reason I don't run it is because of the {U}{U}. If they ever reprint this at {2}{U} it's going in! Which means I should probably make a proxy :)
 
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