General Fight Club

[Erik Twice]

I currently run Archon of Cruelty as the most powerful top-end payoff. And it's a cool card. However, I'm kind of envious of people who run Griselbrand because you can reanimate it as a draw 7 in storm decks. I've thought about running it, instead, but I'm afraid it would be too powerful.



Do you think Griselbrand would be too much? It's so much better than my other top-end:



I also run Sneak Attack and have enough ramp to play it naturally. What do you think?

 

[Brad]

my current fix for land dfcs is to just make them lands with channel abilities to do the thing on their spell side

What do you do for the DFCs where the front side is a permanent?

 

[Velrun]

What do you do for the DFCs where the front side is a permanent?

Channel ability create a token of the permanent

 

[MilesOfficial]

I currently run Archon of Cruelty as the most powerful top-end payoff. And it's a cool card. However, I'm kind of envious of people who run Griselbrand because you can reanimate it as a draw 7 in storm decks. I've thought about running it, instead, but I'm afraid it would be too powerful.



Do you think Griselbrand would be too much? It's so much better than my other top-end:



I also run Sneak Attack and have enough ramp to play it naturally. What do you think?

Honestly, the Archon is way too strong compared to your other top-end, forget the other demon! I run Griselbrand and recently cut Archon of Cruelty for being too strong. With the mana cost, it's easier to play without cheating, and doesn't have the same dramatic downside to drawing cards that The 'Brand has.

Is Griselbrand stronger in play? Generally, but you have to cheat it out 95% of the time. In terms of iconic Magic cards of '10s, it's top of the heap, and excites players to try to figure out the reanimator puzzle. When I see Archon, I'm primarily trying to cheat it out, but I also will feel like I could just force it in the long game if my A plan of reanimation doesn't work out, something that's just much trickier with Griselbrand.

Also, a key point that Parker mentioned on Lucky Paper this week, Griselbrand kills you or your opponent much faster. Archon is a slow, obvious death. Both have about the same amount of counterplay available to them....though yes, Griselbrand being able to draw cards in response to anything is, yes, really really good. But I'd rather the #1 big superbomb reanimator target have the most impact on the game possible.

 

[Brad]

Channel ability create a token of the permanent

I considered that, but I have 4 unique tokens right now and that feels really nice. Could Glasspool Mimic just be like "Channel - Put it onto the field as a copy of a creature" even though it's a land? There's no reason why not, right? Other than it would feel kinda funny?

I guess it wouldn't be Channel, it would just be an ability.

 

[blacksmithy]

for creature lands you can have a creature with channel - conjure a basic land onto the field

 

[LadyMapi]

Or you could do something like...

Kazandu Mammoth -
Creature - Elephant
Landfall - Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, Kazandu Mammoth gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
You may play Kazandu Mammoth as land. If you do, it loses all abilities and is a colorless land with ": Add ". It enters the battlefield tapped.
3/3

This would take advantage of the fact that you're supposed to keep your lands and nonlands separate (it's in the rules!), so you can just track it by seeing where on the battlefield the Mammoth is.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

I currently run Archon of Cruelty as the most powerful top-end payoff. And it's a cool card. However, I'm kind of envious of people who run Griselbrand because you can reanimate it as a draw 7 in storm decks. I've thought about running it, instead, but I'm afraid it would be too powerful.



Do you think Griselbrand would be too much? It's so much better than my other top-end:



I also run Sneak Attack and have enough ramp to play it naturally. What do you think?

I think Griselbrand is fine in the context of the top end of your power band if you want to play it, but I do think you would need to make some modifications elsewhere to balance it out. Archon of Cruelty is obviously good so you don't need to change that if it's causing no issues. The same is largely true for Myr Battlesphere with the added bonus of it being a tinker target. Meanwhile, Phyrexian Fleshgorger is a worse reanimate target, but it has actual value in fair midrange decks and also combos with blink stuff.

However, I think these two cards are bad if you want to play powerful threats:


Thorn Mammoth is fine but it's closer to an overgrown Affectionate Indrik than Craterhoof Behemoth or even Woodfall Primus. Anegel of Serenity is like... fine, but you can do better. It's definitely not the most exciting reanimation target, even in White (that is probably Serra's Emissary, Avacyn, or Elesh Norn). I think if you want to be running the four aforementioned cards, I would definitely suggest cutting these because they just do not line up well as options. For Anegel of Serenity, I'd go with one of the aforementioned White cards or maybe Ancient Gold Dragon if you're feeling like playing a spicy weaker card, and for Thorn Mammoth I would suggest playing Apex Altisaur which is basically Thorn Mammoth but significantly cooler.

I would also consider adding some more interaction. I don't really have any problems with reanimator in my Modern-ish power level Cube, but that's because it's easy to answer the threats most of the time, thanks to my removal density. In your Cube, I would worry about the reanimator decks being un-fun to play against because there isn't quite enough removal to effectively dispatch the threats. It seems impossibly difficult to beat a turn 2 Reanimate, even on one of the less potent targets like Phyrexian Fleshgorger.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Or you could do something like...

Kazandu Mammoth -
Creature - Elephant
Landfall - Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, Kazandu Mammoth gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
You may play Kazandu Mammoth as land. If you do, it loses all abilities and is a colorless land with ": Add ". It enters the battlefield tapped.
3/3

This would take advantage of the fact that you're supposed to keep your lands and nonlands separate (it's in the rules!), so you can just track it by seeing where on the battlefield the Mammoth is.

This sounds like a solid way to do this!
Worth noting this works much better with flickerwisp than before, so maybe don't run some kinda DFC 6 drop but I like this implementation

 

[Onderzeeboot]

This sounds like a solid way to do this!
Worth noting this works much better with flickerwisp than before, so maybe don't run some kinda DFC 6 drop but I like this implementation

I think you also still have to pay 1GG to play it as a land with this wording, because the “without paying its mana cost” clause is missing. I’ld be tempted to go with:
Exile CARDNAME from your hand: You may play a basic Forest card you own from outside the game. If you do, it enters the battlefield tapped.
For cube purposes this solves the flicker interaction, and it solves potential memory issues. You do have to remember to put that Forest back into your sideboard at the end of the game though

 

[Mown]

I think you also still have to pay 1GG to play it as a land with this wording, because the “without paying its mana cost” clause is missing.

There's no step to pay mana when playing lands.

Also if you're fixing permanent mdfc lands then just use landcycling like this was originally a question about, slap on basic if you don't want it to be too much of an upgrade.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

There's no step to pay mana when playing lands.

Fair, but I don’t think that’s very obvious ruleswise. Like, you’ve got a creature with a mana value in your hand, not everybody’s going to realize you can automatically skip that cost when you play it as a land. See: me. And I’ve got a pretty firm grasp of the rules, usually.

Also if you're fixing permanent mdfc lands then just use landcycling like this was originally a question about, slap on basic if you don't want it to be too much of an upgrade.

That’s also a cool solution. Though it does have a different play pattern because the cycled card ends up in the graveyard.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

That’s also a cool solution. Though it does have a different play pattern because the cycles card ends up in the graveyard.

Cycling Kazandu Mammoth and getting to use Unearth with it seems pretty cool.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Cycling Kazandu Mammoth and getting to use Unearth with it seems pretty cool.

For sure, I did say it was a cool solution I mean, I'm making room for Lórien Revealed, Troll of Khazad-dûm, and Generous Ent in my cube, Kazandu Mammoth with Forestcycling instead of a backside sounds rad!

 

[Mown]

That’s also a cool solution. Though it does have a different play pattern because the cycled card ends up in the graveyard.

Certainly, I just thought I'd draw some attention back towards the very serviceable point this all started with.

 

[Erik Twice]

Spawning Pit seems more "useful", but is the more fun and better rounded card of the two? What are your experiences?

 

[safra]

jinxed idol brings a new texture and tenor to gameplay that I enjoy more than the inevitability of spawning pit. with the idol there are real moments of panic and fear for both players IMO

 

[ravnic]

Spawning Pit for me. I have in it my cube for many years, it adds a loz of small synergies. Multiple artifacts, threats that survive board wipes etc.

Idol is mostly an aggro card. Might be stronger, but does less things.

 

[Rusje]

Idol. Spawning pit is probably better since only you can do something with it. I like interaction and that idol can blow back.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Spawning pit pros:
-Never handed off to your opponent so you can continue to sac your creatures against removal spells
-Blocks kinda, you can block with a spawn, sac it, get half a blocker back, etc. This deck usually has big problems blocking.
-Works as a force multiplier when you have like a million creatures in play and a blood artist
8 creatures is 8 counters is 4 creatures, which is 2 more creatures, so off those 8 bodies you get 13 death triggers.

All of these are quite marginal upsides, as they only really kick in when your deck is already doing it's thing.
Also there's no official Spawn token, which might tip the odds depending on if you care.

I haven't played with Jinxed Idol in eons, but it seems like it's better in the average case?

 

[Humpty_Dumpty]

Which Inti do people prefer? I like the showcase frame, but the standard frame version has nicer art.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

The normal version has better art, better legibility, and better signaling that it's a legendary. Easy pick for me!

 

[Erik Twice]

The normal version for sure!

 

[Humpty_Dumpty]

Thanks folks! In my heart I knew that the normal version was the better choice (his posture l very unnatural in the showcase version) but sometimes it helps to have my thoughts confirmed.

It’s a shame, as I’ve been enjoying a lot of the showcase treatments in recent sets.

Spoiler: Nice showcase examples

 

[Velrun]

Yeah I also like all of those except for the Phyrexian one.

I am currently looking for a card I could add from The Lost Caverns of Ixalan with that showcase frame. Any favorites?