General Fight Club

Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Yeah Ophiomancer clears the "good on it's own" bar, but this was initially about gravecrawler

Rant incoming:
Now in terms of this, the thing I hate about gravecrawler is it makes an already insular deck even more insular.
All an aristocrats player wants is exactly goblin bombardment, and black cards nobody else wants. You can play rabblemasters or lingering souls or whatever, but if you deck has 5 mountains in it, you could be doing better. Has your aristocrats deck ever been base red?

Gravecrawler doubles down on this: the best zombie to put in your deck to ensure you can recast your gravecrawlers is another gravecrawler. There's essentially zero good nonblack zombies, so even the medium synergy pieces lead you right back to where you started.

Since your average deck doesn't want most aristocrats pieces, your black section ends up being some okay cards, and this vast wasteland of cards you only want if you already have 10 of them already.
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

Chris Taylor said:
Now in terms of this, the thing I hate about gravecrawler is it makes an already insular deck even more insular.
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I usually hate Gravecrawler like you and agree that 95% of the time it's super narrow and makes it difficult to branch into other decks/archetypes. But I've been thinking about it in the context of my high powered cube that is built to make big synergy decks.

I've found that as I get higher up in power level, the sacrifice deck is tough to maintain. It's an A+B+C combo deck with some narrow pieces. That's a lot of work! The payoffs are up there (Skullclamp, Mayhem Devil, Yawgmoth, Thran's Physician, ...), but some fodder pieces aren't great (Cult Conscript, Bloodsoaked Champion, ...).

Enter Gravecrawler. When active, it's 100% the best card to recur. It's a single black mana and it counts as casting a spell. That means you trigger your Clarion Spirit, Vengevine and friends. You can even combo off with Earthcraft or Phyrexian Altar if that's your jam.
I usually hate on this card because of how difficult it is to recur it reliably, but in the context of maximizing your sacrifice payoffs it, if it's online, it's the best at its job.

Take this (made up) deck for example. It wouldn't be able to exist without Gravecrawler. Going off with Paradox Engine + Priest of Forgotten Gods or Earthcraft + Altar of Dementia or a big Chatterstorm.











So if your cube is about high ceilings or whacky synergy (even if it means using some narrow cards), then I think Gravecrawler has merit. The cast triggers and cheap recursion cost make it unique and actually opens up the decks which could want it. I know this applies to very few cubes, just wanted to share my recent realization!
 
Rusje

Rusje

ravnic said:


Which of those big token spells with flashback do you like? Which you don't? And why?
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In order:

Why? Well roar has cheap flashback so is useful in many decks. Beast attack due to the surprise factor.
Grizzly fate which is fun with threshold.
Leaves rise of the ants, which is compared to the others low powered. Which is weird since it is a newer card.
 
LadyMapi

LadyMapi

Hmm...

Roar of the Wurm is 12 power for {9}{G}{G} (11), Beast Attack is 8 flash power for {4}{G}{G}{G}{G}{G}{G} (10), Grizzly Fate is between 8 and 16 power for {8}{G}{G}{G}{G} (12) ... and Rise of the Ants is 12 power and 4 life for {10}{G}{G}{G}{G} (14).

Boy howdy, gaining 4 life is totally worth +{4} to the total cost!

(Yes, I'm aware that this isn't how anything works.)
 
PyreDream

PyreDream

I like Grizzly Fate best since both halves are realistically castable, but it's not great unless you have threshold.
I like Beast Attack a lot for the surprise factor on the front half, and two back-to-back 4/4s over turns from one card is solid pressure. It can be a feel-bad if the opponent forgets it's in the graveyard, depending on your audience.
I like Rise of the Ants the least. It's got the least realistically castable back half, and without the back half I estimate it to be around Honey Mammoth level depending on how much you value multiple bodies vs extra life.
 
Velrun

Velrun



Is a pet card of mine. Kai Budde made a World Champion (Standard) deck with it with 0 win conditions in the main board. You would win by Cunning Wish tools from your sideboard and eventually Elephant Ambush. It’s the deck I have the most experience playing. I later turned it into an Extended deck without Elephant Ambush and only a single Mirari that would wreck havoc and won me many tournaments.

Also look at that sneaky elephant. It can see you but you can definetely not see it :p
 
Mown

Mown

ravnic said:
Which of those big token spells with flashback do you like? Which you don't? And why?
Click to expand...
Well, they're quite different. Rise of the Ants is the most basic and least interesting, I'd consider it for a "learning the game cube" that showcases some mechanics like flashback, but I don't get excited to draft it. I would not cube it for the lifegain synergy.
Grizzly Fate is the most graveyard-cube oriented one from a synergy pov. I don't really like the card, but I think that's in large parts because I didn't understand what the card did when I opened it in a booster as a kid, having no concept of what tokens were.
I quite like Beast Attack and have it in my cube, I think games are more fun when you can play at instant speed, but it has a very big color requirement, which is a bit off-putting.
Roar of the Wurm is probably the most "fun" of them, since you get to feel like you cheat a bit if you can get it into your graveyard through other means. I play the hydra instead for the Fauna Shaman and Dreadhorde Invasion synergy though.
 
ravnic

ravnic

Roar of the Wurm and Honored Hydra are of course staples of my cube. Wouldn't ever cut them, as well a Call of the Herd.

For this Fight Club, I think Grizzly Fate will be my winner. It's close with Beast Attack, but I already have some Bear token makers, so it wouldn't increase token creep, and it has a bit more synergy potential overall. Also, what an awesome name.
 
Humpty_Dumpty

Humpty_Dumpty




One can enable itself and be cycled away when it's not needed, the other is one mana cheaper and has less text.

Two cards enter, one card leaves.

FIGHT!
 
Rasmus Källqvist

Rasmus Källqvist

Hm, depending on how many creatures already put counters on themselves I think Scales presents the most lethal curve. A 2-drop promising to boost creatures might just be too slow to play the same role as Scales? I feel like Ozolith would have to be played on turn 4?
 
ravnic

ravnic

I like the Ozolith better. If your counters decks are very aggressive though, I would take Scales. If your counter decks aren't aggro but the Ozolith proves to be too slow anyway, I think your power level would be too high for a counter-tribal deck to really work.
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

Rasmus Källqvist said:
I'm actually considering running both now. Currently I'm just running Scales.
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Have you considered running both Ozoliths instead?



Instead of having both Green enchantments, I think a mix with The Ozolith could bring more diversity both in gameplay and what decks actually look like.

Being able to boost your board presence and have protection against removal seems like a winning combination for aggressive decks.

I think it also adds a combo element to your aggressive decks that is tough to get elsewhere. Load up a Nested Shambler, Berserk a buffed creature or slap some counters on a flying creature.

It naturally works great with some Green and Black cards that care about creatures dying and counters:



And then a bunch of artifact stuff



Am I the only one hyped by The Ozolith?
 
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