General Fight Club

[Rusje]

Not really a traditional fight club, but can these two ever hang together in a cube (that does not explicitly embrace high power deltas?)

Yes. Snapcaster is way stronger, but archaeomancer can be cast without using the spell immediately. This can come in handy when the spell is expensive, i.e., you cannot cast it and snappy on the same turn, or when there is not yet a target for the spell. Or a combo with:


snappy cannot reuse the same spell, Archie can.

 

[shamizy]

Not really a traditional fight club, but can these two ever hang together in a cube (that does not explicitly embrace high power deltas?)

I think it depends on the quality and efficiency of what you're bringing back. Snap is much better with a plethora of low CMC spells to let you really apply a ton of pressure with spell velocity. But if there are a lot of 3+ mana cards to recur then the gap between them is lessened. Even more so if you have something like a blink package to take advantage of Archaeomancer's recursion.

 

[Brad]

Both scale to the environment because they're only able to get back something from the environment. Snap is typically going to be better unless the cube's curve is so high that a spell's cost plus 1U is prohibitive.

There's a few things that Archaeomancer is better at due to not exiling the card, but those are atypical.

All that said, it's ok to have cards of different power levels in your cube. I don't think Snap is so absurdly above Mancer that it would be offensive to run both in a low powered environment. The primary thing I'd personally be nervous about is Snap into one mana removal makes a hell of a tempo ETB.

There's also a few other options in between the two like Sphinx of Forgotten Lore, Slickshot Lockpick, Ethereal Forager, and more that aren't on my mind.

 

[ravnic]

I treated myself a retro frame snappy today.

So, now I want to replace Blood Fountain, which plays rather poorly for me, with a stronger recursion effect. which one do you like and why? I want to push slow, grindy black decks, that recur their etb value guys and drain the opponent out.

 

[gaytransmulldrifter]

i'm a huge unearth fan. extremely simple card to read, iconic, simple one-word name, scales great with power level.

 

[Chris Taylor]

I think phyrexian reclamation is pitch perfect for you mate, it's got the inbuilt limiting factor of you've only got so much life to pay, worked really well for me back when I ran it.

Diabolic Servitude requires the creature you bring back to trade off before you get another go, and limits loops by exiling, but it does work better if you've got bigger stuff to grind with.

Unearth is an excellent magic card you might want to add for other reasons, but I don't think it fits the purpose of enabling a grindy deck, it's just a sweet one off thing, not a playstyle enabler.

 

[Rusje]

I play with unearth, servitude and reclamation and I rank servitude>>>>>>>>reclamation=unearth.
Simply put, reclamation forces you to cast the card, and lets be honest no one wants to reclaim a 2 mana card (okay, a mom is powerful). The servitude is so powerful that it warrants a splash.

If you want a grindy recursion, which does not mind that the reanimate is a one off (which brings tension) then the servitude is your best bet (which is quite low powered). If multiple uses of the same creature are needed then the reclamation is the poison you need, but beware it is much slower and at the same time can use a creature more times (thing is, the life cost is often preventing you from doing that). The reclamation is often a trap for the user, as opposed to the servitude.

(this is all in a urza block cube experience)

 

[Nanonox]

I’m with Chris regarding your choices.

Another option that you’ve probably already dismissed because of energy



It’s pretty fair but strong and has built in restrictions that can be worked around. Is a sacrifice outlet and a repetitive noncreature cast.



The final level does what you want, but the other levels fit your various themes.

 

[IanGitax]

I treated myself a retro frame snappy today.

So, now I want to replace Blood Fountain, which plays rather poorly for me, with a stronger recursion effect. which one do you like and why? I want to push slow, grindy black decks, that recur their etb value guys and drain the opponent out.

The card you’re looking for is Whip of Erebos.

 

[ravnic]

Okay, I think Phyrexian Reclamation is actually just what I want. It is simple, elegant and works nicely with life drain effects like Bastion of Remembrance.

I already had dismissed Nightmare because of energy, the Talent because it does too many different things and Whip because lifelink for the whole team is not very fun for the opponent.

 

[Velrun]

i'm a huge unearth fan. extremely simple card to read, iconic, simple one-word name, scales great with power level.

You know what.. I never thought about this before..

But one-word named cards should always scale with power level. That seriously should be a criteria when they design a one-word card.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Wotc has so many regrets


My personal favorite sad taken 1 word cardname is unnerve, really wish that wasn't used already

 

[ravnic]

Hey friends, if you would see these cards (individually) in a pack or in my list (one gold card per guild), 1. What possibilities would they signal to you and how? 2. How excited would you be to take/play/build around them?

 

[Mondschwein]

1. Ramp/Selfmill/playing cards from grave (flashback variants eg)/Selfmill

2. 3/5/8/7

I really don't like zimone but I dislike landfall in general. Looks decent as a payoff.

Wood Sage is a strong enabler and sometimes hits something which is cool but I'm not super excited about multicolored enablers. Still I really like it.

Skimmer looks cool, striking for 2 in the air is always relevant and it's a payoff.

Siege has 2 modes which fit into similar strategies, I like the flexibility, the first mode enables your deck early, the second makes you hit your land drops midgame.

 

[Humpty_Dumpty]

From favourite to least liked:

Skimmer is the one that most intrigues me. There are so many reasons why a card might leave my graveyard: dredge, flashback, reanimation, Crucible of Worlds… it feels very open-ended. I like having an anthropomorphic kingfisher as well.

The siege covers some common themes, but might take more effort to make work. Spells matter and self mill tend not to go together in my experience. I could see running it as a third land recursion option after crucible and Ramunap Excavator.

Wood Sage seems a bit fragile and needs to tap before it gets going. I understand that it is played to mill cards but the improbability of getting a creature in hand in a draft deck makes it feel worse than it is. I’d prefer it if it just said “: mill 4 cards”.

Zimone makes me want to cheat something great into play. If your cube allows me to manipulate the top of my library, trigger landfall twice in a turn, and has creatures that are still exciting enough to jump through those hoops without getting an ETB effect then she’ll be great.

Skimmer I’m testing in my cube. Siege and sage I could see doing some work in the right environment. Mystery Unraveler isn’t even my favourite Zimone.

 

[Nanonox]

Favorites first

1. Siege: Crucible effects are in demand in your cube because of the landfall and self-mill archetypes. This one clearly signals that you should be doing some GY/land shenanigans and the mill mode is a really fun goal to work towards in a Labman deck or as a mill win condition. Green has a bunch of instants/sorceries that go well with the GY (Call of the Herd, Roar of the Wurm, Malevolent Rumble, ...) making it a one card archetype added to a staple effect.

2. Skimmer: Good rate and a sweet reward on a 2 drop. You don't need to draw a ton of cards to get your value and I love that it's any card type. It makes it pretty open-ended and lets your drafters get creative. While less prescriptive, it's also less of a signal since it misses the whole lands archetype in Simic.

3. Zimone: Manifest dread is a cool mechanic and this will lead to some exciting plays. Green is already full of landfall effects making it less necessary IMO. I'd rather have something more unique if you have a single multicolored card.

4. Sage: Bad rate, slow and as Humpty_Dumpty pointed out, can be frustrating as you will keep missing.

 

[inscho]

Gaea's Skyfolk was one of my favorite cards once upon a time so I'm naturally drawn to Skimmer. I'd be more inclined to pick it earlier than the others. Good baseline with a bonus that can be treated as incidental or built around.

Siege is the second most interesting to me as it can be an enabler or win-con. I would need to have already drafted some pieces that make sense with this.

Wood Sage is not esepcially appealing, but if I'm already well into a deck that wants to mill a bunch of cards it seems like solid filler. If this card is interesting for you, I'd be inclined to consider Hermit Druid or maybe Magus of the Bazaar and save the gold spot

Zimone...Not really drawn to. Too clunky. Base body is only serviceable. Being a 4 drop that requires subsequent landfall triggers to pay off just doesn't feel great for the return. It's not great as a cheat card, because it requires you to have access to 5-6 mana to start the cheating (4 for zimone plus a vista). So it's probably best as a slower multiturn value engine. I'm just not feeling it personally.




Piggybacking on the Simic conversation. I'm debating between a couple payoffs for Simic lands
and

Currently have Slogurk slotted in, but I run several Nadu combo pieces already:



I imagine there's some communal fatigue from Nadu in constructed. I'm pretty well insulated from that so I have no real negative feelings towards Nadu, but also no firsthand experience either. Eager to get your opinion.

Things I like about Nadu:
- Stronger baseline than Slogurk
- Gives simic a fresh archetype, by providing a meaningful bridge betweeen lands matter and Birthing Pod builds
- It slots in without additional cube concessions. I literally run everything to support the deck already.

Things I don't like:
- High potential for long/complicated turns
- Is the archetype more of a novelty? I feel like it'd be pretty enjoyable to pilot in cube without 0-mana equipment.

Things I like about Slogurk:
- Mesmeric Orb
- Berserk

Things I don't like:
- Feels redundant when I already have things like Bristly Bill, Spine Sower and Scythecat Cub
- Baseline is not especially appealing in my environment.

 

[LadyMapi]

The thing to keep in mind is that Nadu is utter bullshit.

EDIT: To clarify, Nadu isn't bullshit because of power level (it's very strong but whatever, your format can probably handle it if you're seriously looking at the card), it's bullshit because it's really hard to interact with in a way that doesn't feel bad for the other player, and suddenly you both have to start tracking something new that nothing else asks you to care about.