General Fight Club

vennythekid

vennythekid

While I'm at it (going full-Innistrad on my cube), can I get an opinion on recursive black {B}{B} drops?

vs


I'm thinking of going full-zombies for the synergy with Gravecrawler (Thinking of going 2-2 split of Gravecrawler/Bloodsoaked Champion). I'm worried that it will restrict these 2-drops to mono-black only (as they've got heavy {B} costs and don't reoccur without {B}).
 
ColonelSanders

ColonelSanders

So my experiences with vorepede have always fallen into 1 of 3 categories: It rots in my hand. It "dies" to oring, path to exile, faith's fetters, etc. Or it just steam rolls someone. You might say that those are pretty normal expectations for any large green creature, but I feel like vorapede does it in the least exciting way possible. However, I don't look specifically for cards that support pod, so maybe it does more in that context.

EDIT: As for the zombies, I used to do the whole gravecrawler thing, but I got rid of it eventually because of customs + I felt like bloodsoaked just played better. My thing against gravecrawler is that it can get downright ridiculous in certain situations (carrion feeder + mana or goblin bombardment + other zombie + mana). I don't have anything against aggro combo, but it felt like it occasionally led to too much of the uninteractive combo side. Bloodsoaked goes in the same deck, fills the same front end roll of a 2/1 B creature, but doesn't get quite as dumb when you "go off."

Bringing this train back around, bloodghast in a vacuum is probably stronger and requires less pieces to be good. Relentless dead with a small number of zombies is interesting to me because it can already get value with no zombies, and its a decent beater. Relentless dead with a lot of zombies seems kinda gross, but I think this reaction stems more from my feelings towards gravecrawler wombo combo. So pick whatever road appeals to you.
 
Aoret

Aoret

Developer
Can I cut three?

Vorapede does everything you said in pod, but more often than it does that, it just gets cast and leads to really uninteresting board states (vigilance+trample+undying sucks because what else do I ever do except attack every turn?)
Thragtusk is oopressive as hell and again is a super no-brainer card to play with.
Gurmag Angler is just undercosted stats. What's interesting here?

Titania I love to pieces. Hermit I'm so-so on. Slime is pretty cool.
 
safra

safra

genericco said:
Okay, since it's fight club,

vs
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easy both imo

VVV
the good part of Wickerbough Elder is that it's cheap to hold up the ability and your opponent is actively punished for playing into it. swing for 3, oh uh actually no kill your factory, hit for 4, etc. my lowered power level is probably relevant.
 
Tzenmoroth

Tzenmoroth

I ran Wickerbough at 720, not even on my radar at 540. :( Maybe with a -1/-1 counters theme or a power level drop. Even Slime is among the more likely cards in my green section to be randomly axed by a creature that gets printed in the next couple sets. Definitely Slime though because ETB and hitting lands makes it more maindeckable.
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
I loathe the word 'staple' when it comes to cube card discussion, but I think Acidic Slime is about as close to that as it gets in my cube. It's something I even doubled up on, for a time.

Looking at your list, I would sooner cut Naturalize than Wickerbough Elder, though. Straight Disenchants are rarely exciting enough to be picked, especially when you're not running any of the broken artifacts or enchantments, but Elder is almost always maindeck worthy.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

Aoret said:
Can I cut three?

Vorapede does everything you said in pod, but more often than it does that, it just gets cast and leads to really uninteresting board states (vigilance+trample+undying sucks because what else do I ever do except attack every turn?)
Thragtusk is oopressive as hell and again is a super no-brainer card to play with.
Gurmag Angler is just undercosted stats. What's interesting here?

Titania I love to pieces. Hermit I'm so-so on. Slime is pretty cool.
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I echo this (though I like Hermit more than Aoret does). Thragtusk is the first cut I'd make because it's basically a splashable bomb for 5 mana. Fuck that card.
 
Q

quanta

Probably magnifying glass, especially if you have clue support or an artifact theme. 4 mana then 2 mana is just so much easier to activate than 7 mana. If your environment is really ramp heavy, then unstable obelisk may be better. Blow up their win con to clear the way for your win con.
 
ColonelSanders

ColonelSanders

I like obelisk. Admittedly, it's not repeatable, but magnifying glass's ability just feels a little too expensive. Also, after reminding myself of what's in your cube, I would say that magnifying glass doesn't seem like it would be very playable.
 
sigh

sigh

EoDS seems like one of those "cube staples", but it does lose you life, and I've got a foil Deathcap Cultivator... :p. What do we all think about 1 mana dorks anyways? I've got 5, I think?
v.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

Elves of Deep shadow is sweet because it gives you BB on t2. Black has so many heavy mana requirements. T2 hippie is still legit too. Just saying.
 
RavebornMuse

RavebornMuse

Elves of Deep Shadow offers
+ really explosive ramp plays at the cost of 1 life per mana
- really explosive ramp plays at the cost of 1 life per mana

Deathcap Cultivator offers
+ fairer ramp with no life cost
+ a decent body for swinging in with
+ mid/late-game relevance via deathtouch
+ signalling for a potential {B}{G} "graveyard shenanigans" archetype
+ Human tribal support


Personally, I prefer Deathcap Cultivator, because he offers a more flexible body; I'd jam him in both a deck that "wants ramp" and a deck that "wants flexible bodies who aren't miserable topdecks". 1-drop mana dorks are fine and all, but most people run too much ramp already imho. I've opted to try and get ramp options that feed into different cube synergies, personally, and though it's a constant give-and-take process, I'm more happy with my green section today than when I was running a ton of 1-drop ramp.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

Let us know how he plays. I've found 2 mana ramp dudes to generally be slow and without something really spicy, I'd rather play something else. Not sure deathtouch is enough spice.

I still think "3 drop on T2 at the cost of T1" is a lot lot better than "4 drop on T3 at the cost of T2". But maybe this is less true in cubes today? Not certain. I've played with Rattleclaw though who taps for 3 different colors and has a super ramp option if you morph him, and even that guy never impressed me.

Curious how others feel about this though. I don't think this is a black and white argument.
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Possible controversial opinion incoming, but has anyone been impressed by Lotus Cobra in a cube environment? Even with 20 fetches in a 360, the little guy occasionally doesn't produce mana right when you most need it, which is infuriating; the very rare occasions he boosts you by two mana don't make up for it. His 2/1 body is mostly irrelevant, even on the play, though at least his stats fare slightly better in low-curve aggro decks. Still, though, I can't help but notice how much worse he is than Wall of Roots, or even Sylvan Caryatid, in cube. Maybe it's time to just jam another Elvish Mystic...?!
 
sigh

sigh

T2 deathcap dude -> T3 Sidisi, now that's the self-synergistic dream. I'm totally fine with T2->T4, effectively. I've got some spicy 4 drops to get to, like the aforementioned Sidisi. I'm with RBM on the density thing. I was running 6 1-dorks actually, counting deathrite shaman, and even picking up 1-2 for a deck is fine. Also questionably over-powerful going T1 dork -> T2 3drop -> T3 4drop. The 2 mana dork tones it down somewhat over that.

Anyway, I swapped it in, and will definitely be seeing what happens.

EDIT: Never had the chance to test with Lotus Cobra, but I would guess that my drafters would be starstruck, at least at first. All "too many one drop dork" discussion aside, Elvish Mystic and Co. are basically perfect (in the right number). Also + to Boreal Druid for powering out Thought-Knots
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
The one 1cc variety are much more powerful enablers for those strategies. The decks whole strategy is to get a turn ahead on mana, and putting yourself a turn behind on your own strategy seems pretty awful.

That being said, there are some reasonable balance arguments, and its kind of nice to provide a variety of slightly similar but different effects.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

Eric Chan said:
Possible controversial opinion incoming, but has anyone been impressed by Lotus Cobra in a cube environment? Even with 20 fetches in a 360, the little guy occasionally doesn't produce mana right when you most need it, which is infuriating; the very rare occasions he boosts you by two mana don't make up for it. His 2/1 body is mostly irrelevant, even on the play, though at least his stats fare slightly better in low-curve aggro decks. Still, though, I can't help but notice how much worse he is than Wall of Roots, or even Sylvan Caryatid, in cube. Maybe it's time to just jam another Elvish Mystic...?!
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I'll defend Lotus Cobra. I agree, his body is weak, but he goes well in aggressive decks that can clear blockers. What makes him good IMO is that he swings AND gives you mana. You don't have to make a choice (like with Rattleclaw or Gyre Sage). So it's less about the fetchland double mana interaction and just getting to play a 4 drop on T3 while still swinging with your 2 drop.

That said, I wouldn't fault anyone for choosing Wall of Roots over it. That's a really cool card I miss.
 
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