All those red 4-drops are really boring tho...
General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
I like battledriver. Its a really dense packing of effects that might take 2-3 slots otherwise. Its fine in agro if you buy into the reach-agro archetypes over curve-out agro because it makes every later dude an immediate and larger threat (aka haste is good). Bonus points do go to tokens. Hordeling Outburst is gross with driver out, same with Mama and Papa.
Fits in as analogs of (at least):
Obviously isn't all of those cards stacked up but its got a lot of utility in similar roles, and I like it for that.
Fits in as analogs of (at least):
Obviously isn't all of those cards stacked up but its got a lot of utility in similar roles, and I like it for that.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
I'll still go to bat for Sarkhan Vol. It doesn't defend itself as well as the others (which could be a good thing given how most of us think about PWs) but it's a really scary card with multiple dimensions to it. It rewards horizontal growth while being good against vertical growth and it makes any topdecked creature an immediate threat. It often wins the game outright or puts them in range for next turn, and it's great with any sac outlet (Greater Gargadon, Goblin Bombardment, Evolutionary Leap); it also sticks around and threatens to Threaten again next turn so they have to take their defences down to attack it and it's easy enough to defend by leaving a random token back. The ultimate comes quickly and therefore poses another threat.
I find it an interesting card that changes the dynamics of the game in multiple ways and works against board stalls instead of contributing to them.
I find it an interesting card that changes the dynamics of the game in multiple ways and works against board stalls instead of contributing to them.
Hellrider and Hero of Oxid Ridge were both too good here, so I tried downgrading them into Shaman of the Great Hunt (who, really, is a mono-red card - all that ferocious & hybrid fluff is flavour text). After a couple of drafts with this switch, I'm not even sure it's that much of a downgrade, but we've been really happy with the change because it encourages more interesting blocking decisions from the defending player, rather than just "take a pile to the face with no interaction".
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
That actually sounds pretty reasonable, though I could see running it as the only threaten effect in a list if you did run it: that play pattern can get old very quickly.
Agreed on all counts. I hadn't thought of comparing Battledriver to Purphorors, but that makes total sense in hindsight.
What do y'all think about vaultbreaker?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Heelcutter is my 3/4 drop dash creature of choice!
I like vault breaker a lot, though My cube is more lower powered than some on here. It's more interesting than some other options at that slot, supports graveyard ams and madness themes.
Let's throw out some unbiased opinions in a pros and cons list:
Ms. Saffi:
If you like overpowered cards that hose instants for no reason go Voice.
There. Completely unbiased opinions.
Ms. Saffi:
- Combos with Reveillark + Sac outlet. Or Crypt Champion (if you are into that sort of thing)
- Ability is very multi-use. Could get value from Thragtusk, protect a win-con, order Chinese takeout, etc.
- Was the commander for my most broken/resilient deck that is now locked away due to my playgroup hating it that much
- Needs help. Isn't that great by herself, just a bear
- Works well with a Champion of the Parish curve (sort of?)
- Cheap. Only $3!
- Objectively stronger by itself on an empty board
- Great pod fodder
- Expensive. $35 for a value bear.
- Leads to unfun moments for opponent when they forget that it also pumps out tokens when you play instants.
- I will reiterate that, because 50% of people seem to forget that ability
If you like overpowered cards that hose instants for no reason go Voice.
There. Completely unbiased opinions.
Nice little totally unbiased analysis Kirblinx 
. Your Wobbly Cube's Selesnya section, by the by, really proves out that you are totally unbiased. I think you forgot one important pro for Ms. Saffi, who is going to find herself in the dusty waste that is my cube in the blink of an eye if she isn't careful:
Elegance.
But seriously, she's so much nicer to read than Mr. Wall of Text Mythic.
. Your Wobbly Cube's Selesnya section, by the by, really proves out that you are totally unbiased. I think you forgot one important pro for Ms. Saffi, who is going to find herself in the dusty waste that is my cube in the blink of an eye if she isn't careful:Elegance.
But seriously, she's so much nicer to read than Mr. Wall of Text Mythic.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Wow. You know, this isn't a problem in any playgroup, like mine, that is like "You know I get a token if you do that, right? Are you sure you want to do that?" whenever someone tries to cast an instant with Voice out. I very much love Saffi, but I also love Voice. It's a superb target for Birthing Pod, and a nice foil against counterspells. As long as you're not being an asshole when someone wants to take back their instant, it has a bunch of play to it, without making people unhappy. Well, except blue mages, but nobody feels sorry for them anyway
Ok, thought on some cards fighting over singular card 'slots':
I think I've moved beyond the whip! Finally having picked up a dread return, I no longer need this clogging up my spells. What should I put in instead? The first thing that came to mind was:
But is this too slow, too durdly? The second thought was to seize the chance to lower the curve some and go for something more value oriented, like
Thoughts on what people like in this slot?
Do people like this card? Its really cool as an additional piece for a D&T style deck, but I have no idea what to take out... first thought was
But I've really liked the fusion he brings to go-wide and go-tall. All in all, white 3's seem really cramped. Are either of these actually worth it? One over the other?
I think I've moved beyond the whip! Finally having picked up a dread return, I no longer need this clogging up my
spells. What should I put in instead? The first thing that came to mind was:But is this too slow, too durdly? The second thought was to seize the chance to lower the curve some and go for something more value oriented, like
Thoughts on what people like in this slot?
Do people like this card? Its really cool as an additional piece for a D&T style deck, but I have no idea what to take out... first thought was
But I've really liked the fusion he brings to go-wide and go-tall. All in all, white 3's seem really cramped. Are either of these actually worth it? One over the other?
If countless battles said enchantments instead of auras, I would be able to like it maybe. As is, I'd rather Wingmare.
What's the argument for getting rid of Whip? Other than the lifegain being excessive at times, the card is so great. Reanimator engines that are playable and not utterly broken are hard to come by and such a sweet effect for graveyard shenanigans.
What's the argument for getting rid of Whip? Other than the lifegain being excessive at times, the card is so great. Reanimator engines that are playable and not utterly broken are hard to come by and such a sweet effect for graveyard shenanigans.
Have you considered Phyrexian Reclamation? I've been pretty happy with it in the long term value enchantment slot. If you're considering Greed, go one better and go for Erebos, God of the Dead.Ok, thought on some cards fighting over singular card 'slots':
I think I've moved beyond the whip! Finally having picked up a dread return, I no longer need this clogging up my
But is this too slow, too durdly? The second thought was to seize the chance to lower the curve some and go for something more value oriented, like
Thoughts on what people like in this slot?
Do people like this card? Its really cool as an additional piece for a D&T style deck, but I have no idea what to take out... first thought was
But I've really liked the fusion he brings to go-wide and go-tall. All in all, white 3's seem really cramped. Are either of these actually worth it? One over the other?
As for Vryn Wingmare, I actually recently cut Thalia herself. I'm not sure hatebears as an archetype works in cube. The various threats are too varied and the deck can't be focused like it is in constructed. Considering that most of us support Spells Matter in white, Thalia and Wingmare are nonbo's with a good chunk of white decks.
that's a good point about the "aura" thing.
Whip is a nice engine, but the lifelink really can make it feel like it's impossible to win through. If I wanted to keep that sort of engine alive, I have thought of potentially:
I currently run Reclamation and love it
I'm not so sure that the archetype needs to be full-on hatebears.dec to work, just a set of decks that can settle themselves within the ~tempo~ advantage that hatebears generate. Some of the decks that I've seen come up that can at least partially benefit from having cards like Wingmare and Thalia:
- Creature Control or Midrange. This deck is the kinda grindy deck that loves stuff like Tidehollow Sculler, Nekrataal, Athreos, etc. to flood the board while containing the opponents plays.
- Aggro. This deck benefits from the Tax effect by buying itself extra turns to operate under removal and wipes, aiming for those 20 points of lethal. Very similar to the legacy Version
- Monsters. Much like BW, this deck is filling the board with creatures, but now it's huge beaters and ramp dorks.
But maybe I'm wrong on that? I think Thalia is a solid slot for the indefinite future because of her mana efficiency and non-embarrassing combat stats. Is wingmare just not that needed? Should I be letting thalia do her thing and focus on something else? Like:
?Whip is a nice engine, but the lifelink really can make it feel like it's impossible to win through. If I wanted to keep that sort of engine alive, I have thought of potentially:
That card would require graveyard being ordered and its reserved list so we're never getting a pretty reprint. Pass. I probably will replace whip when we get a better reanimator engine but I don't want to take it out yet for anything. Unearth every turn is too fun.
yeah, I know, and it's definitely a bummer. Same for stuff like intuition
I've also recently put a lot of effort into focusing this sort of effect in green, notably with genesis. That being said, it's not impossible to also have some sort of recursion engine in black. My slots just seem a little jammed with reanimation effects (that could just be poor perception on my part). Also note that I haven't taken it out yet, just don't feel that it's needed anymore. It really is the lifelink that makes it good, and it makes it too good, or too annoying at least. 8 mana for your first unearth effect should be far too much, but that lifelink buys you the time you need to make it ok. It's just too self-synergistic, or self-enabling, or something. I think an enchantment that's overall healthier for most formats would be:
(but, again, I think I'm full up on reanimation effects, which is why I want to rotate the slot into something else, like draw or to-hand recursion)
You could always try
vs. vs. How do these rank compared to each other?
How do these rank compared to each other?
Dictate of Karametra > Heartbeat and Mana Reflection seem to be pretty close to each other.
Dictate costs 5 but when you want such effects to happen you probably have more mana than that to begin with. Flash enables less risky situations compared to heartbeat where you usually have to pass the turn first before the big turn.
I haven't tried Mana Reflection, but i think the flash is better than paying six for a one sided effect and letting the opponent get a chance to deal with the enchantment before your big turn.