General Fighting Disappointment: Lets fix some cards that were almost sweet

Kuldahar

Kuldahar

The knight I would do a throwback to black/white knight
Opportunistic Knight [B/W][B/W]
Creature - Human Knight
First strike
Extort
2/2

I would even consider giving it lifelink as well and make it a vampire as a throwback to knight of meadowgrain. I wouldnt think it was too much stronger than that - obviously as always would need testing.

The first card I was disappointed with was


He is one of my favourite villains of all time. I think his card sucks. He definitely needs to be at least blue black. It completely sucks that the fat head Crovax took his position as envincer - what a crock of shit. Admittedly Volrath did squander his power a bit, but all egotistical villains do!

Please assist in making this Envincer of Rath worthy!
 
Lucre

Lucre

I made this guy ages back!

Fickle Acolyte ({W}/{B})
Creature - Human Cleric (Zombie) (R)
Extort, Exalted
{2}, pay 1 life: Add ({W}/{B}) ({W}/{B}) to your mana pool.
1/1

I love extort. What does everyone think about extort? What do you guys think about white drain? I feel like it really fixes the old stabilize at 1 vs the white deck thing but maybe lats less important in a multicolour environment.
 
Kuldahar

Kuldahar

I love extort! I think wizards were a bit conservative with some of the cards they put it on. It really did play to the Orzhov well. I'd love to see it pushed for cube.

Edit: if it could also add to the cleric tribe and make it viable so much the better!
 
Konge

Konge

Yeah, Syndic of Tithes, Basilica Screeche, Tithe Drinker, and Kingpin's Pet all hover around the same "almost-there" area :)
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor


How can we keep the spirit of this card (chucking stuff away away and burning) while making it playable? The -2 means that having this card at a low casting cost is extremely dangerous, but a 6 mana discard engine needs to do more. High loyalty means its probably going to survive to +1 at least twice and 8 damage is a lot. The red card restriction seems to go hand in hand with a heavy red casting cost like 1RRR, though I'm not sure how to sharpie a red mana symbol that won't look awful. Any thoughts?
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Yeah this card would have been insane even if it cost RRRRR. All in red could pretty easily seething song into it early then, basically making it a 4 card hymn which draws you cards
 
Soshi

Soshi

I was thinking about this, since I agree that I would love to see this card kept the same flavorfully, but be playable. I noticed that FSR doesn't really mention her ultimate, and the problem (in my mind) is the -1 ability, although the +1 is really good,

What if we moved the +1 to a -2, the -2 to a -x (ultimate) ability, and simply suggested a new +1 ability? Would that be restrictive enough to lower the casting cost (no idea what +1 to suggest), and make the card playable? Especially if she entered with 3 or 4 loyalty counters instead of 5, so that she couldn't come in and do 8 damage.
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
Soshi said:
I was thinking about this, since I agree that I would love to see this card kept the same flavorfully, but be playable. I noticed that FSR doesn't really mention her ultimate, and the problem (in my mind) is the -1 ability, although the +1 is really good,

What if we moved the +1 to a -2, the -2 to a -x (ultimate) ability, and simply suggested a new +1 ability? Would that be restrictive enough to lower the casting cost (no idea what +1 to suggest), and make the card playable? Especially if she entered with 3 or 4 loyalty counters instead of 5, so that she couldn't come in and do 8 damage.
Click to expand...

The +1 turns bad cards into Lightning Blasts, but most decks that want to play a 6 mana permanent probably aren't topdecking Jackal Pups to chuck to her. Lowering her cost not only makes her a fundamentally better card (in that having a lower casting cost is an advantage), but the actual abilities themselves are more powerful by virtue of the decks that can utilize her. Reading your idea on restructuring the abilities maybe me think two things:

1) You're probably right
2) The card probably needs to be completely redone

Not running any fast mana makes me think 3RR or 2RRR might be pushed, but playable (possible at loyalty=4). Anyone see any major issues for someone who doesn't run the obvious cards that could abuse this (monolith, vault, searing song, etc.).
 
Soshi

Soshi

If we drop the casting cost, she does become fundamentally better, so we need to make sure she's not broken. Thus, I suggested making her powerful abilities cost loyalty counters, instead of adding loyalty counters, and lowering her loyalty to make an ultimate not first-turn useable, which would mean she needs to be protected, etc. I was thinking something more along the lines of below. I think in particular balancing the different combinations of plays out of her loyalty counters is a big difference.

My suggestion below (which may be huge, sorry!) gives her the ability to be proactive (for a cost), or to build up as a card-selection engine. It's my off-the-cuff solution for a +1 ability.

createcard.php
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Honestly if her chuck ability isn't her plus anymore, why is it discarding a card?

I think it should be at least a 0, though we could also have it be a + ability as well.

Actually, I love the interplay between her wheel and ultimate. Can we have her ultimate Wheel you, then do the old ultimate? Or is that too much text?
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Actually with the chuck and looting ability, and her new ultimate, I notice ALL her abilities reference discarding cards. Maybe she really has come undone, gone ablaze if you will :p *Smug Chuckle*

ChandraUnhinged.jpg


Now this is without any balance considerations whatsoever, but notice that she only ever nets you cards if you're hellbent or ulting her
 
Soshi

Soshi

Honestly if her chuck ability isn't her plus anymore, why is it discarding a card?

I think it should be at least a 0, though we could also have it be a + ability as well.
Click to expand...

This got me thinking about the obvious parallel, at 4-mana, to Ral Zarek, a card most of my johnnyish friends wanted to love, but ultimately were forced to binder. I like the theme behind discarding (flames burn, consume, enables GY stuff like madness, etc.) and the "red matters" in her current ability. I don't know what peoples feelings on Ral in cubes are.

We could change the -2 to be something like "Discard a Card: Chandra, the Spark Ignited deals 3 damage to target creature or player, if a red card was discarded this way, deal 5 damage instead".

With regards to your wheeling idea, I don't quite understand what you mean?

*edit
Well, crossposting!

It's hard for me to look at the card sans balance. Definitely this card has more of a 'build up' feeling, but I can't get past the notion of a planeswalker who is gaining loyalty while defending themselves/affecting the boardstate/fireblasting the other player. Also I think the +1 ability becomes nearly irrelevant at that point...
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Yeah, it should probably be a minus. It just feels so wrong to be ditching a card AND subtracting loyalty for burn, even if 4 is greater than 3
 
Soshi

Soshi

Alright, apparently Chandra's dead. I'd like to look at Glissa, a card I've tried to make work in duel commander, and who I'd like to be good in my (theoretical/eventual/aspirational) 'modern' cube.

How would this card need to change, or what sort of environment would have to surround it? on the surface, its a 3/3 first strike, deathtouch creature, which should be good by itself, with an interesting passive ability.

 
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