FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Alfonzo: Its definitely a thought, but I don't think Lions or Vanguard is going to survive the next update as one drops are going to get drastically shaken up. We'll see.
FlowerSunRain's Cube
- Thread starter FlowerSunRain
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FlowerSunRain
Contributor
With snow coming tomorrow, I am hoping that my order comes tonight so I can spend all day designing my next update.
EDIT: And they didn't come. I hope they deliver mail tomorrow. . .
EDIT: And they didn't come. I hope they deliver mail tomorrow. . .
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I would love to post more stuff about my update, but I still haven't gotten my mail and I am powerless to make changes without physical cards to move around.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Update made, first draft hopefully on Sunday.
Besides routine swaps and Born of the Gods adds, I'm experimenting with double picks (squadrons where you get two of the same card). So far, all the cards involved are beater 1 drops. The intention is to keep the power level of 1 drops appropriate and consistent, while also eliminating the need to include redundant cards just to make the decks come together. I think I will be able to clip a couple more cards with this change, but I haven't tried it so I'm not sure I fully appreciate the implications yet.
Besides routine swaps and Born of the Gods adds, I'm experimenting with double picks (squadrons where you get two of the same card). So far, all the cards involved are beater 1 drops. The intention is to keep the power level of 1 drops appropriate and consistent, while also eliminating the need to include redundant cards just to make the decks come together. I think I will be able to clip a couple more cards with this change, but I haven't tried it so I'm not sure I fully appreciate the implications yet.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Fungus update is on hold. Turns out dropping in eight green creatures (and a couple of other cards) is actually not that simple!
Chris Taylor
Contributor
...fungus update? o.O
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I deleted my cube on cubetutor, apparently. Awesome.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
See if Ben will reinstate it for you. I think he's done so before
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I'm using at as an excuse to cut to 360 temporarily.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Cube@360 is up, double picks and custom text aren't marked, but they are the same as last time (not that anyone would remember that).
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
In an effort to give white more identity/create rules arguments, I finally followed my own suggestion and added humility, cutting wrath of god. Will Armageddon be the next cut?
You're a monster.
I've cut wrath and geddon. Not sad.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Adding humility is certainly worthy of being called a monster
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
So I drafted yesterday and the finals consisted of a White/Blue auras deck with Ephara back-up plan vs. Red/Green Ion Storm with Goblin Bombardment support, which resulted in some of the wackiest and thought provoking Magic games I've ever played. I can now officially say that this cube is a total success. Thanks to everyone who helped directly and indirectly. While I will always have a soft spot for my primitive works from before I knew that Cube had a name, the discourse here on Riptide Lab really helped me think critically about my design and become more perceptive to issues in development, resulting in a far superior play experience for myself and my group.
I'd also like the add the irony that accidentally deleting my cube tutor list was really helpful as it gave me an excuse to cut the bullshit, prioritize what was truly important and drop to 360.
I'd also like the add the irony that accidentally deleting my cube tutor list was really helpful as it gave me an excuse to cut the bullshit, prioritize what was truly important and drop to 360.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I haven't pulled the trigger on cutting geddon yet. While it seems completely out of place as a white card and its power level is suspect, it still seems to serve an important function in my cube that I'm not sure I want to lose. Red and blue are my mana denial colors, so it doesn't make sense. I think I want a red geddon first, but none of the red geddons (and I've tried them all) really seem to fill the same niche.
I predominantly only draft with between two and four players. I have some goals and principles for my cube which have developed and solidified over time as I've been developing it. If you're playing with multiple drafters sometimes you just get beat and move on to face different decks. If you're facing the same deck over and over you want there to be some back and forth, some balance and some ways to come back. What I'm trying to get around to saying is that you go monster, monster, monster, geddon, and that's effectively the end of the game you just shuffle up but face the same deck again.
One thing that's difficult is reading other people's comments about what is good and works for them while remembering what works for your environment and your players and have to design accordingly.
Having said all that, some questions and comments about your cube
How's the red madness theme working out?
How's predator ooze? Good with devotion and okay to cast because of elves? Good with auras?
Young wolf, do you like him anyway or is he just an ion storm/black sac intersection? (Have you considered scourge of skola vale?)
Red ordeal seems would be good but you don't have that one? Too easy/making players work/not enough room?
Loving the black removal suite. May copy. Does it make mortician beetle super good?
One thing that's difficult is reading other people's comments about what is good and works for them while remembering what works for your environment and your players and have to design accordingly.
Having said all that, some questions and comments about your cube
How's the red madness theme working out?
How's predator ooze? Good with devotion and okay to cast because of elves? Good with auras?
Young wolf, do you like him anyway or is he just an ion storm/black sac intersection? (Have you considered scourge of skola vale?)
Red ordeal seems would be good but you don't have that one? Too easy/making players work/not enough room?
Loving the black removal suite. May copy. Does it make mortician beetle super good?
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I hear you on that. I find that I learn more from recognizing what I don't agree with and figuring out how to successfully diverge from them as I do from finding things to emulate.
Multiquoting for ease.
Multiquoting for ease.
Pretty poorly, unfortunately. Violent Eruption, Blast from the Past and Obsessive Search are good cards, but it really has nothing to hold it together as a theme. Fiery Temper and Reckless Wurm are randomly good, but usually sit on the bench. Adding more value is probably just throwing slots into a hole. Another honestly good red enabler and a strong black madness card would be useful, though. It intersects well with Stormbind which comes together reasonably often. Tibalt, unlike everything that's been said, actually isn't the worst. Overall all the cards see play sometimes in parts of decks and a very strong 3-0 red/blue control deck used them heavily with blue enablers to great effect, but its not really a theme and I wonder if some of the secondary cards couldn't be dropped for more space elsewhere.
Indestructible is pretty mediocre with my removal choices, but he intersects well with +1/+1, auras and devotion, so I think he's safe. He got to 11/11 last night and the person playing the deck really wished he had drafted rancor =)
He hasn't seen play yet in his short tenure. I like the theme intersection, though, and I think there is some upside here to make him work. Wolf, Experiment 1 and Rakdos Cackler form a really solid basis to some kind of deck that I think will come together some day. I bought a Scourge and kind of forgot about him, I could like a green sacrifice creature, though, I have to see where it would fit. Good call.
Red Ordeal got chopped in the slim down to 360. I could see playing it again. It saw the least play of all the ordeals when I ran it, though. I'm not really sure why. Madcap Skills is more appealing I guess? Red decks generally don't like auras because they don't have counters, hexproof or protection spells that make them work. Even the black ordeal had gotten more play when I ran it, which I absolutely did not expect.
I love it too. It doesn't make mortician beetle super good, it just makes itplayable, unlike in most cubes =). I'd hesitate to put itin the same tier as Experiment 1 and Champion of the Parish, but in the right deck it's a legit threat and swarmyard (in the land draft) is pretty good with it too. It's in no danger of leaving.
Thanks for the replies, very interesting. Re red ordeal, I would have thought it quite good with cackler, chain walker etc, but understand you might want to just smash with madcap skills. Swarmyard is tres cool.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Its really depressing how many black madness cards there are (13) without a single one being particularly good or interesting. I guess Grave Scrabbler is ok? Is Gorgon Recluse at all playable?
Would Academy Raider at 1R be fine? Both Red Divinations seem too narrow to use as outlets.
How much should Chandra Ablaze actually cost to cast? What would we have to do to get her casting cost down too aggressive levels(2RR or even RRR)? I guess it can't get to low with the second ability.
Would Academy Raider at 1R be fine? Both Red Divinations seem too narrow to use as outlets.
How much should Chandra Ablaze actually cost to cast? What would we have to do to get her casting cost down too aggressive levels(2RR or even RRR)? I guess it can't get to low with the second ability.
Those black cards are pretty urgh. I like ichor slick as a black madness card.
I think academy raider could be quite good at 1R, if you want to try it I think it will go down well. I suspect there will be some good red loot cards on the horizon, as they've made so much that is mediocre the only way is up?
Re chandra, I suspect the second ability is the problem. I think 4cc might be too cheap actually. 5 might be okay.
Dangerous wager is yuck, but I like wild guess individually. As an enabler it's the RR at sorcery speed that's the problem.
Surely firestorm is a good enabler? Also how about
I think academy raider could be quite good at 1R, if you want to try it I think it will go down well. I suspect there will be some good red loot cards on the horizon, as they've made so much that is mediocre the only way is up?
Re chandra, I suspect the second ability is the problem. I think 4cc might be too cheap actually. 5 might be okay.
Dangerous wager is yuck, but I like wild guess individually. As an enabler it's the RR at sorcery speed that's the problem.
Surely firestorm is a good enabler? Also how about
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Firestorm is a good enabler and I adds some sort of redundancy with Devastating Dreams in that even though they work very differently in practice, the same deck probably wants both.
The scary thing with lowering Ablaze's casting cost is the early -2 (which still leaves her at 3 loyalty no less!). Even at 4cc, you can get it out turn 2 in my cube with aR/G land, 1 mana ramp that can get red and a Stompy Land which is pretty oppressive, which no doubt was part of the consideration which lead to her unplayable state. Its just annoying because her design is custom made for my cube, but the execution is so frustratingly underwhelming.
Kris Mage is a card I have run in the past and considering how wonderful Red 1 drops are, I could see using her again. There are a lot of x/1s worth killing.
Gathan Raiders seems decent enough. The other suggestions, I think, fall short of what I'm looking for.
The scary thing with lowering Ablaze's casting cost is the early -2 (which still leaves her at 3 loyalty no less!). Even at 4cc, you can get it out turn 2 in my cube with aR/G land, 1 mana ramp that can get red and a Stompy Land which is pretty oppressive, which no doubt was part of the consideration which lead to her unplayable state. Its just annoying because her design is custom made for my cube, but the execution is so frustratingly underwhelming.
Kris Mage is a card I have run in the past and considering how wonderful Red 1 drops are, I could see using her again. There are a lot of x/1s worth killing.
Gathan Raiders seems decent enough. The other suggestions, I think, fall short of what I'm looking for.
