Jon's Graveyard Cube

Jon Metzger

Jon Metzger

Hi all -

This is my first cube, I just finished the first draft and will be hopefully getting in a lot testing/refining with the goal of having it in good shape for PAX.

Goal: Recreate the feel of Innistrad draft while also having some of the "greatest hits" feel of traditional cube. I'd like to have a fairly balanced environment where no color/strategy is overwhelmingly strong, but heavily focused on the graveyard.

Current worries:
- The power balance is kind of all over the place right now - I feel like reanimation in particular is probably too strong, though I haven't had a chance to actually play yet (just finished putting it together last night).
- Not sure if I have enough support for multi-color - I'd like to see most decks 2 colors, splashing a third color for an off-color flashback spell or a bomb, but I don't know if I have enough fixing.
- I'm worried that I have too many straight "power" cards and that games won't go long enough for something like Spider Spawning to be a legitimate strategy - in particular I probably went too deep on "awesome bombs" in the gold cards?
Any advice on those points would be great.

Here's the list:

http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/2877
 
Jon Metzger

Jon Metzger

Follow-up to avoid spam on the main post -

A couple of cycles breaking the singleton rule right now, though I'm not 100% committed to keeping them as strict cycles:
3x of 2-color flashback spells for each guild (Spider Spawning, Momentary Blink, Desperate Ravings etc) - obviously the power level on some of these is higher than others, I'm interested to see what it plays out like.
2x of a couple of "build-around" graveyard cards in each color - Haakon, Vengevine, Archeomancer, Burning Vengeance, Proclamation of Rebirth. I'm pretty committed to Haakon/Burning Vengeance, the other 3 are up in the air.

Themes:
Azorius - a little bit of an "enters the battlefield" theme with Momentary Blink/Proclamation of Rebirth. Couldn't come up with a good graveyard mechanic in this color pair.
Izzet - "Spells matter" - Kiln Fiend, Young Pyromancer, Fluxcharger, Guttersnipe, Delver, Burning Vengeance . . . I really want this to be a good deck, not sure if it has enough support right now.
Rakdos - Unearth is the theme here, spilling over into blue slightly. Not sure if it's too strong or too weak right now. Fires of Undeath doesn't fit too cleanly either.
Golgari - Lhurgoyf type creatures is the theme here, along with Spider Spawning. Get as many creatures in the graveyard as possible. These colors are the strongest graveyard wise, so it's probably overpowered as is.
Selesnya - This is supposed to be the Travel Preparations deck, though I didn't intentionally seed many cards in for the archetype. Like most of the white guilds, there's not a ton of "graveyard" mechanical identity in the color pair. Probably needs the most work of any guild.
Boros - This is supposed to be a token rush theme. Token producers and boosters in both colors and then finish with Rally the Peasants and Waves of Aggression.
Orzhov - There's 3 different ways this can go, I need to figure out how to trim that down a bit. There's a reanimator theme with Unburial Rites, Obzedat's Aid, Defy Death (to go with Makeshift Mannequin and Dread Return for purely black reanimation), a tokens theme from Lingering Souls, and the Knights tribal deck with Haakon and the various BW Knights.
Dimir - Zombie Tribal.
Simic - Tracker's Instincts/Self-Mill. There's a lot of crossover with Golgari, I need to find a way to make those more distinct so it's not just always BUG instead of one of the pairs.

Obviously lots of Flashback, Retrace, a bit of Threshold spread out in all the colors.
 
Jon Metzger

Jon Metzger

What are people's experiences with the Karoos in Cube? I know there's the whole history of "cut the Karoos/Signets" from the Tom LaPille era, but I was thinking about it and with all the retrace cards I have the Karoos could do a lot more than just blind ramp.

If I do add them, cut lands (I should get around to making the utility land list anyway), increase the %age of lands in the cube, or a mix?
 
Jon Metzger

Jon Metzger

Side note on graveyard hate - I feel like things like Rest in Peace/Tormod's Crypt/Relic go against the spirit of a "graveyard cube", but I also realize that some things will get out of control without some measure of counter-hate. That's why I've got cards like Memory's Journey/Purify the Grave/Vile Rebirth in the list. Not sure what the right balance for those will be - something like Jotun Grunt could be an addition if more is needed. Obviously testing is the correct answer, but that's the reasoning.
 
CML

CML

Contributor
fun way to improve the cubing experience + give blue an easy way to fill the graveyard is to toss in a bunch of cantrips. in a 360 something like 2 brainstorm 2 ponder 2 preordain 1 probe 1 portent should be good enough, and people will be happy to play tombstalker or ghastly demise or nimble mongoose or whatever. so that should help with the Ux guilds.

i dislike karoos, though if the pace of your cube is more relaxed (since the top-end of the power curve looks very well thought-out, mad props!) then i think they're at least worth trying.

don't fill your cube with bad cards like defy death or obzedat's aid

USE ODYSSEY BLOCK CARDS, it's only got all the awesome graveyard themes ISD block could have had. (ISD was a good cube set because of its creatures and tastefully soft-pedaled tribal themes, and almost nothing else.)

GW -- http://magiccards.info/ju/en.html

awwww yeah verge monastery portal
 
Jon Metzger

Jon Metzger

CML - I cut most of the terrible cards and a couple of the top-end cards that weren't on theme this morning to get down to 360. I'll keep the extra cantrip idea in mind for future tweaks once I get a chance to actually draft the darn thing.
 
Jon Metzger

Jon Metzger

The problem is there are so many good graveyard cards in Golgari. I'm not confident enough to break color symmetry yet and overload Golgari which is already strong. I went back and forth between Varolz and Salvage several times.
 
CML

CML

Contributor
Instincts was never good for me, I think because you had to take a creature. Sweet card and still worth fiddling around with, but don't be too disappointed if it doesn't work out.

My vote is for Salvage > Varolz but it does all depend on how many enablers you have and Varolz is pretty sweet
 
Jon Metzger

Jon Metzger

I think Tracker's Instincts is much better when you know that you have a decent chance to pick up Splinterfright/Mortivore/Lhurghoyf etc. I think maybe I have enough of those x/x creatures that Salvage is better than Lord of Extinction, will probably make that change.
 
CML

CML

Contributor
OTJ was a great draft format, too

welcome to the best place on the internet to discuss bad old cards that are actually decent
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Your list looks fun and really tasteful. I have a question about Seance. Other than ETB effects, are there alternative ways to take advantage of it? i.e. beneficial sacrifice effects, things that grant other creatures haste, etc.

If you're supporting Madness I consider these two pretty neat:
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Jon Metzger

Jon Metzger

Good thought on Seance. I've never actually played with it, for some reason I was thinking it gave haste. Let's see:
- Anger is in red for global haste (replaced Fires of Yavimaya)
- A couple sac outlets, nothing fantastic (Varolz, a couple of others)
So primarily I guess it would be ETB effects, which is already a theme in U/W - Blade Splicer, Geist-Honored Monk, Man-o-War, Court Hussar, etc. I'll have to see how well it works out.

Re: Madness - those both look awesome, I'll have to pick up some copies. Here's the current Madness line-up:
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and of course
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along with all of the other ways to discard. I have a couple more madness cards coming in the mail that may find space later (along with Compulsion/Tortured Existence):
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Also coming in eventually, a couple more sweet cards for Haakon:
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And some threshold:
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to go with what's already in the utility land pile supporting threshold.
 
Jon Metzger

Jon Metzger

Another thing I'm thinking about building in a couple more cards for is the ability to just Boom Tube your giant Lhurgoyf/Mortivore/Sewer Nemesis at your opponent's face. I've got Fling (and Wreath of Geists on Spikeshot Elder) in already, I might add 1-2 cards from this pool:
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CML

CML

Contributor
real quick:

for madness i think you wanna consider Violent Eruption and Blast from the Past

Tortured Existence is sweet

for discard outlets and sac outlets i see the word "outlet" and think of sweet deals at big-box retailers in godforsaken locales. what should they cost? they should cost zero! magiccards.info search is helpful here
http://magiccards.info/query?q=o:"sacrifice a creature:"&v=card&s=cname
http://magiccards.info/query?q=o:"discard a card:"&v=card&s=cname

my favorites for each are Goblin Bombardment and Oona's Prowler

what do y'all think of Attrition? I think it might just be a little too good

threshold -- i don't think Hunting Grounds does anything, and the Arsonist is just a lame FTK (in the era of Murderous Redcap, persist might be a fun theme too w/r/t people hosing it with graveyard interaction). maybe try these

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edit: i swear i thought the enforcer was a CAT for the longest time
 
Jon Metzger

Jon Metzger

It does look like a cat. I already have Nantuko Monastery, Riftstone Portal, Cephalid Coliseum, Barbarian Ring, and Centaur Garden in the Utility Lands stack. (Along with Grove of the Burnwillows to go with the Punishing Fire I snuck into the red cards).

Goblin Bombardment will definitely be making its way in at some point; Ashnod's Altar might come in as well if I want to push the Past In Flames/Young Pyromancer archetype. Oona's Prowler looks nice, I might swap it in for Rotting Rats?
 
CML

CML

Contributor
yeah, rats never really worked out. only one deck really wanted him, and not really that much

whereas psychatog is frighteningly enormous, even by modern standards

personal recommendation for util land stack: 4 tec edges
 
Jon Metzger

Jon Metzger

Finally got to draft it tonight! 6-man, so we had some cards that didn't get drafted. Decks were WBr Tokens, my UR Delver/Burning Vengeance, GWr good stuff, RG aggro, BUG self-mill, and GWB Loam/Haakon. It was pretty sweet, though it quickly became obvious that some of the cards were a little too good. My favorite moment was when the BUG deck almost managed to combo off for a Dread Return->Laboratory Maniac->Dream Twist win but he tapped his mana wrong and ended up decking himself instead.

Cut list at the moment looks like it will be:
Too strong/not synergistic: Elspeth, Garruk, Jace, Jitte, Skullclamp, Prime Time, 2nd Lingering Souls, 2nd Ghor-clan Rampager.
Too weak/not interesting enough: Secrets of the Dead, 2nd Proclamation of Rebirth, Diregraf Ghoul, Rotting Rats, 2nd Rally the Peasants

Going to think about what from all the comments above to put in for those, along with these three swaps:
Doom Blade -> Dark Banishing
Pacifism -> Kirtar's Desire
Wild Nacatl -> Nimble Mongoose

My utility lands are pretty much based on Jason's article with a few changes. I didn't want too strong of Land Death presence with the Karoos, so it's just a Tec Edge and a Ghost Quarter for whoever has Loam or Crucible to try and lock people with. Is there a way to list those in Cube Tutor or is that concept not widely accepted yet?
 
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