General Jumpstarting your cube drafts
- Thread starter blacksmithy
- Start date
When I had Chemister's Insight in the full deck it seemed too slow to be worth it, so I never really considered it. This is a much different environment, though; might be worthwhile.
Hence why I said 4-colored decks should be completely off the table.
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Fire/Ice for Shock seems like a really good idea. It can still be early removal but more expensive and flexible. Or it can enable card draw. It’s perfect!
I am also a fan of C’s Insight. Not sure what to replace. If you take out the 5 mana guy you are letting one of the interesting slow pull cards go. (The cards that pulls you to this deck) The spice. But it might be worth to ponder if there is room for the double double draw instant. I am a big fan of the fact that it is a card that can generate card advantage and not just tempo and replace itself.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I mean sunken ruins also doesn't help you in your 3 color builds
It can't activate off plains in your White + Dimir concoction
It can't activate off plains in your White + Dimir concoction
Ue
Yet it was played alot in competitive coldtrucred.
Chemister’s Insight makes me want to re-evaluate basically all the Jump-Start cards, that mechanic would go perfectly in my cube if the power level is high enough on a few.
EDIT: wow everything except Insight suuuuuuuuucks
EDIT: wow everything except Insight suuuuuuuuucks
Oh, definitely, Chemister's Insight is great in general, I just meant that it didn't make Improbable Alliance substantially better because I was usually either almost dead or had almost won by the time I was built up with enough Alliances and Irencrag Pyromancers for it to be worthwhile to cast it.
Ok, took a crawl through Scryfall and really leaned towards a red focus for this pack after going over all the suggestions here.
The temptation to include Conch Horn, both because I like Phil Foglio's art and to be able to meme about Fallen Empires was hard to resist, but I just don't think it makes the cut.
The temptation to include Conch Horn, both because I like Phil Foglio's art and to be able to meme about Fallen Empires was hard to resist, but I just don't think it makes the cut.
On the discussion of multicolor cards, I was thinking about multicolor packs that others can draft as the final 3rd pack (cuz 3 jumpstarts makes a pilotable 60 card deck) where the player either chooses a multicolor pack. Or they randomly get dealt one of the multicolor packs: so if someone is izzet then from 3-wherever izzet packs they are randomly dealt 1 of them.
You could also go the direction of a utility multicolor card draft after everyone gets their two packs where people switch a couple cards for multicolor cards (but that will take longer than getting a whole pack).
Only major downside I see for both of these options is if someone gets a 1 color 40 card deck.
To me I would think that would make the utility draft cut off from them since it'd likely result in color screw.
For the other option, not sure if you would want them to splash for multicolor pack (likely fine if mana base is good) or if you just give them a 3rd non-multicolor pack (likely of the same color to keep against color screw).
You could also rectify this by the option that players never get the same color twice for the first two packs, which could level the playing field for all players. That will definitely make things a bit simpler (but I would be sad cuz I would want to see all the synergies).
Slightly off-topic, but does everyone agree that 3 or more of the same color mana on cards is probably a bad idea for jumpstarts? I'm looking at necro-impotence and I'm not sure if I should do a jumpstart with it.
You could also go the direction of a utility multicolor card draft after everyone gets their two packs where people switch a couple cards for multicolor cards (but that will take longer than getting a whole pack).
Only major downside I see for both of these options is if someone gets a 1 color 40 card deck.
To me I would think that would make the utility draft cut off from them since it'd likely result in color screw.
For the other option, not sure if you would want them to splash for multicolor pack (likely fine if mana base is good) or if you just give them a 3rd non-multicolor pack (likely of the same color to keep against color screw).
You could also rectify this by the option that players never get the same color twice for the first two packs, which could level the playing field for all players. That will definitely make things a bit simpler (but I would be sad cuz I would want to see all the synergies).
Slightly off-topic, but does everyone agree that 3 or more of the same color mana on cards is probably a bad idea for jumpstarts? I'm looking at necro-impotence and I'm not sure if I should do a jumpstart with it.
Love the Cluestone. Reroute's too narrow. What are we Expediting that's exciting? Still feel like Chemister is pretty weak.
Tek, I'm down for letting them get an additional pack in theory, but now you have to carry around "3-wherever" (I assume this means 3x) of each guild pack plus 4-6 of each mono pack... You now have 1100 cards with you just to get some variation.
You COULD do the draft afterwards, it's pretty cool, but, as with most ideas pitched here for adding some customization, it's going to be much more time consuming than 2 25 card packs and cutting that into a 40 card deck.
I really believe that a low density of multicolor packs is going to be fine, because you won't see people ending up in 4c basically ever. They could mulligan their packs if it did happen, I suppose. The other option of having a "multicolor" pack where it's splashing for a few cards that you'll potentially cut also feels good to me.
I haven't seen anything less time intensive than cutting 10 cards in order to enable some variation. I'm very open to the possibility, however. Speaking of being able to cut cards, you could toss in a BBB card expecting it to often get cut.
Tek, I'm down for letting them get an additional pack in theory, but now you have to carry around "3-wherever" (I assume this means 3x) of each guild pack plus 4-6 of each mono pack... You now have 1100 cards with you just to get some variation.
You COULD do the draft afterwards, it's pretty cool, but, as with most ideas pitched here for adding some customization, it's going to be much more time consuming than 2 25 card packs and cutting that into a 40 card deck.
I really believe that a low density of multicolor packs is going to be fine, because you won't see people ending up in 4c basically ever. They could mulligan their packs if it did happen, I suppose. The other option of having a "multicolor" pack where it's splashing for a few cards that you'll potentially cut also feels good to me.
I haven't seen anything less time intensive than cutting 10 cards in order to enable some variation. I'm very open to the possibility, however. Speaking of being able to cut cards, you could toss in a BBB card expecting it to often get cut.
Yeah, maybe you're right about Reroute, perhaps Dismissive Pyromancer would be a better card for that spot. As for Expedite, we are expediting a card into our hand at instant speed for one red mana. Maybe the haste becomes useful for something in our other pack, but a card for R seems worthwhile even if there were no other words on the card.
I really like Pyro. Base stats of a bear is decent and it has two very relevant options on it. Maybe Rix Maadi Reveler, Azra Bladeseeker, and Keldon Marauder? They all filter for no mana investment and have fair stats, albeit at sorcery speed. Smash looks awesome from the sideboard if you do the 25 card packs idea. Shaman of the Great Hunt looks like a solid hasty threat with a splashable card draw option in your secondary color.
Yeah, I'm sure light multicolor would be fine, I'm just thinking about the very slim possibility that someone has a 4 color deck, but even then with Vivids and/or Thriving lands it'll probably be alright.
Very true, I didn't even think about how many cards it is. I usually draft online so I don't usually worry about that, but for something that would likely be best done physically (until CubeCobra or Dr4ft.io adds a jumpstart option
) then that's definitely something to keep in mind.
Very true, I didn't even think about how many cards it is. I usually draft online so I don't usually worry about that, but for something that would likely be best done physically (until CubeCobra or Dr4ft.io adds a jumpstart option
) then that's definitely something to keep in mind.A card that hasn’t been mentioned yet for draw tribal... Honestly this is probably my favorite in the tribe:
Also, if you decide to take it into Green...
Also, if you decide to take it into Green...
Some more green card draw cards:
This green draw discussion around Jolrael, has me thinking. She rewards drawing and going wide. So then I went looking at Ohran Frostfang who also draws and rewards going wide.
So this brings me to this deck, for which I need help.
The basis is going wide and get payed off with Jolrael and Frostfang. I decided to try adding snow since it seems like a fun concept. I'm trying to fix mana in a different way since I want to maximize snow permanents.
I want a repeatable token maker to trigger Rimestag and that has extra synergy with Rime Tender. Weirdly enough, Ohran Viper doesn't feel quite at home. I'd like another card that can draw and have relevance with tokens. I like the idea of Mouth // Feed but don't have enough 3+ power creatures. Or maybe more generic like a removal spell (Kenrith's Transformation? since it can be used offensively or defensively).
I'm also a little light on extra draws so maybe that should be a priority instead of beaters like Frostwalla.
Also, maybe I just need the 8th basic instead of a marginal colorless land.
Comments or help appreciated
So this brings me to this deck, for which I need help.
The basis is going wide and get payed off with Jolrael and Frostfang. I decided to try adding snow since it seems like a fun concept. I'm trying to fix mana in a different way since I want to maximize snow permanents.
I want a repeatable token maker to trigger Rimestag and that has extra synergy with Rime Tender. Weirdly enough, Ohran Viper doesn't feel quite at home. I'd like another card that can draw and have relevance with tokens. I like the idea of Mouth // Feed but don't have enough 3+ power creatures. Or maybe more generic like a removal spell (Kenrith's Transformation? since it can be used offensively or defensively).
I'm also a little light on extra draws so maybe that should be a priority instead of beaters like Frostwalla.
Also, maybe I just need the 8th basic instead of a marginal colorless land.
Comments or help appreciated
These are not *exactly* what you’re asking for, but were both high on my short list when assembling my UG draw-cards jumpstart:
Rancor to push combat damage through for Edric/Bident/Ongoing Investigation; Nest ofc to go wide.
Rancor to push combat damage through for Edric/Bident/Ongoing Investigation; Nest ofc to go wide.
thanks! my list was very focused on drawing cards as a reward for attacking, so it made sense to help me get my Elvish Visionarys and other such dorks through the red zone.
Lol, Nano. I was looking for snow creatures last night and nearly designed "Draw-Snow" (had the same name idea) when I saw the vipers, but I dislike green "draw a card" rewards on principle, so I didn't do it.
Frostwalla is fucking bad. Rancor's trample looks very relevant. I always want Edric in these style decks. Arcum's plus Abundant plus Heart is already three blue sources. Swap in some Snowy Islands and use Wilds etc as your duals so they can grab the snow. Two colors should be fine when you have so many fixers around. Vista Passage Wilds Terramorphic and the three above gives you seven all-colors sources, so if this pairs in to a 3c deck, there should be no issues.
Frostwalla is fucking bad. Rancor's trample looks very relevant. I always want Edric in these style decks. Arcum's plus Abundant plus Heart is already three blue sources. Swap in some Snowy Islands and use Wilds etc as your duals so they can grab the snow. Two colors should be fine when you have so many fixers around. Vista Passage Wilds Terramorphic and the three above gives you seven all-colors sources, so if this pairs in to a 3c deck, there should be no issues.
I don't have any qualms about green draw, I actually would enjoy it if every color had their own flavor of drawing cards.
Totally forgot about the basic land fetches, they seem great. Swapping Edric for Frostwalla is actually a sweet solution since it acts as a second Frostfang and it's essentially free. And in the same vein, if we are splashing for Edric, I don't see a reason not to replace Orhan Viper with Ice-Fang Coatl. It can act as the removal I wanted and still enable a draw. Plus evasion and anthems is great.
The deck would now look like:
Not sure how to fit Rancor into the mix though.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Shame Scrying Sheets doesn't actually "draw a card"
Had the same thought when I had the idea, Chris.
That list looks a lot better. Coatl is an obvious add with blue.
I'm all for every color having access to card advantage or hand fixing mechanics, but "draw a card" isn't a way that green tends to do it very efficiently, so I dislike the mono green designs for it. If you're going to draw a card in green, it's typically Adventurous Impulse or something similar that doesn't "draw" the card.
That list looks a lot better. Coatl is an obvious add with blue.
I'm all for every color having access to card advantage or hand fixing mechanics, but "draw a card" isn't a way that green tends to do it very efficiently, so I dislike the mono green designs for it. If you're going to draw a card in green, it's typically Adventurous Impulse or something similar that doesn't "draw" the card.
From the random Jumpstart play experience feedback, this thread and posts on Reddit's /r/mtgcube, it looks like Jumpstarting will be a popular "cube-like" way to play Magic going forward. It definitely is an interesting space from a cube-design point of view!
I have only browsed the thread, so my apologies if this has been brought up specifically: What methodologies have been discussed for "Choosing packs" or making decks?
This appears like one of the hardest parts of designing a system that outputs fun decks for the way-to-play. There is a risk in designing packs that are more than one color. What happens with UB Zombies and RW Mentors are the "packs selected"? My assumption is a bad play experience (but I am willing to be wrong here).
I've seen (some of these may have been from Reddit):
I have only browsed the thread, so my apologies if this has been brought up specifically: What methodologies have been discussed for "Choosing packs" or making decks?
This appears like one of the hardest parts of designing a system that outputs fun decks for the way-to-play. There is a risk in designing packs that are more than one color. What happens with UB Zombies and RW Mentors are the "packs selected"? My assumption is a bad play experience (but I am willing to be wrong here).
I've seen (some of these may have been from Reddit):
- Choose from several 20-card half-decks
- Choose from several 20+-card half-decks and pare to 40.
- Choose from several modular half-packs and based on what is chosen, get appropriate multi-color cards (i.e., blue pack has UB, UG, UR and UW modules).
- Build packs based on single color, color pairs, color triads, five colors.
- Develop a system to relate the packs. Something like:
- single color: can meld with another single color or color pair
- color pair: can meld with a single color that shares a color OR a color triad that shares the pair
- color triad: can meld with a color pair that is included in the triad OR another color triad that shares a color pair in the triad
- five colors: can meld with a color paid OR color triad
- Randomly select however many packs for each player. (I would probably look to some sort of random # generator and CubeCobra filtering for this). Each player chooses one pack.
- Based on packs selected, randomly select second set of options from the approved pool of packs per relation system.