Dom Harvey
Contributor
yeah I'm torn on Silence/Sever myself
Card/Deck Kill it with fire (let's talk removal)
- Thread starter ColonelSanders
- Start date
Is there an argument to let both of the cards in? How tight are most cubes on the 4cc black spell slot?
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
As someone who pushes bestow/heroic, Silence the Believers is in that weird spot where you have to decide if it is a card that makes your cube better by offering counterplay or makes it worse by hosing a deck you want to be competiive
Chris Taylor
Contributor
In regards to the black removal discussion we had earlier, it seems like people liked these cards
Hero's downfall is maybe actually murder, but I just think murder is such an unappealing card. What is some other removal you run and how do they fit into the format you're building?
I will say, Soul Reap has actually been really bad for me
Black's usual doom blade wheelhouse has a bit of self synergy, in that since you're drafting black cards, you're less likely to run into opposing black creatures.
Soul Reap has the that problem in spades, especially since I find there's a lot more green creatures on average than black creatures, given the multicolor cards in Green/X are more typically creatures, Green is usually a more creature heavy color, to say nothing of randomly green creatures like Kitchen Finks, Dryad Militant, etc
That being said, it is the only sorcery speed doom blade in existence.
Well, the only consistent one anyways:
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Is there an argument to let both of the cards in? How tight are most cubes on the 4cc black spell slot?
There's Also Consuming Vapors, which really does help with how much black hurts itself thesedays
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I run both sever and silence. Sever is pretty much an automatic include for me because of the flashback. In addition, it fits into my limited removal plan by being a 4CC spell and moving at sorcery speed. I also like the incidental token hate.
Silence was a choice I was pretty hesitant about at first because it exiles at instant speed. Overall, it ended up being much more interesting than oppressive. Its been fairly skill testing, since its capable of playing a spot removal role or a mass removal role, and its not always clear how best to use it.
I think in a lot of cubes though, that slot might be more likely to be a damnation or black sun's zenith or maybe even an infest.
Silence was a choice I was pretty hesitant about at first because it exiles at instant speed. Overall, it ended up being much more interesting than oppressive. Its been fairly skill testing, since its capable of playing a spot removal role or a mass removal role, and its not always clear how best to use it.
I think in a lot of cubes though, that slot might be more likely to be a damnation or black sun's zenith or maybe even an infest.
I don't think you'd come to a different conclusion than the Theros block designers did.
There's a reason they print Turn to Slag et. al. in the sets they do.
For comparison, the 4CMC black spells I run in my cube.
If you're going to make them pay 4 mana to kill a heroic creature, might as well reward them.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I don't make them pay four mana to kill a heroic creature. You should check my list.
I'm questioning the inclusion of a card that specifically serves to punish a supported theme. Obviously if a removal spell costs four it should have upside. I prefer Damnation, Pestilence and Consuming Vapors because they have upside and don't specifically interfere with a theme that I am consciously supporting.
I have checked your list. I'm just saying if the choice was between Sever the Bloodline or Silence the Believers, it makes more sense to have the one that lines up better against the themes in your cube. "The heroic deck" isn't going to suddenly collapse because you added some expensive counter-play, and it makes the games significantly less awful for the guy getting out-heroic'd. If you had the all tokens all day cube, Sever would make more sense to add.
CML
Contributor
Is there an argument to let both of the cards in? How tight are most cubes on the 4cc black spell slot?
as i see it the 4-drop slot is always crowded
I think these cards are super cool
I'm also kinda of the opinion that doubling up on certain removal options or similar effects gives your format a more reliable feel and lets you have more control over what sorts of things are really slyly resilient and is a lot faster for teaching your drafters things.
I'm also kinda of the opinion that doubling up on certain removal options or similar effects gives your format a more reliable feel and lets you have more control over what sorts of things are really slyly resilient and is a lot faster for teaching your drafters things.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
What I'm saying is Diabolic Edict takes down a heroic creature quite nicely, is a more broadly applicable, doesn't suck against a Kird Ape deck and doesn't kick you in the junk for having the audacity to play the cards in the cube. It also gives you room to play around it.
My comment wasn't strictly comparing Silence and Sever, but rather the philosophy the the concept itself. Do we want to include cards that are subpar in general, but moderately powerful against a theme you are trying to push? Or should we stick with overall better cards that allow supported themes to shine?
CML
Contributor
I am more of a Chainer's Edict guy myself
if it wasn't clear i wouldn't run sever or silence based on my experiences with both. sever's "same" clause isn't really where i want to be with Cube and Silence is either clunky and mediocre in a higher power environment or completely unbeatable in a lower one
i guess i don't have many 4-mana black spells in my cube, but who's gonna cut any of these? my environment doesn't want spot removal at 4, I don't think. seize the soul would be an interesting option if it fucking killed anything
+ some multicolored funsies
i'm surprised filtering for cards of a certain color at 4 cmc, i get
W -- 14
U -- 12
B -- 11
R -- 16
G -- 15
R -- 16, eh?
enough 4's for me
Has anyone tried Bile Blight? Seems fit for those who hate army-in-a-can cards. (looking at Jason)
One of my old favourites! It felt so right! I guess it really isn't the nicest to classic black strategies but it encourages you to play in interesting ways to get the most of it from your board, and makes you work overtime to get the most of it out of some opposing boards.
Hahaha jason's answer is less colour intensive. He just writes the cards he's not into off!
What is my answer?
Bile Blight? Why would I want to nerf my Steppe Lynxes!!!
EDIT: This post is brought to you by a 13 year-old girl, apparently.