General Life Gain as a Thing
- Thread starter FlowerSunRain
- Start date
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Quarantine Field is good at resetting your opponent's Demonic Pact
Oopsie.
It's time
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
And a Gaze of Granite custom (fuse card with Rise), except that it's -
and I guess Cataclysm, Tragic Arrogance and Liliana are kinda hard to pull off though
I'm going to necro this thread because today I found out about a fun lifegain card:
I'm not saying you should flex on your opponents, but wasting a Liliana Ultimate on Demonic Pact seems a good way to do it.I guess Cataclysm, Tragic Arrogance and Liliana are kinda hard to pull off though
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Well, neither are in my cube anymore, so tragically, this glorious opportunity for ultimate flexing can no longer present itself. Gosh, my cube changed a lot since that post... :eek:
I remember seeing this thread when I first joined up and trying out some basic implementation in my first drafts of my cube, but they didn't really work out all that well. Lifegain was a hard theme to really develop at a higher power level and there weren't a whole lot of enablers that could slot into other archetypes cleanly. Half a decade later, I think you can absolutely implement this effectively with the critical mass of effects we've had. I do think the core of it has shifted more from a lifegain deck to an Aristocrat style death by a thousand cuts build.
I've dabbled with Teysa, Orzhov Scion EDH builds a couple of times like 4-5 years back and remember how much work it was to build a deck with a critical mass of Aristocrat effects to make things work. You really had to dig deep here and there to get there. Flash forward to 2020 and and I have a buddy who runs it as his main CMDR and have noted the number of Blood Artist type effects having been greatly supplemented the last few years. Zulaport Cutthroat being printed was a cause for celebration way back in 2014 as a second copy at a reasonable mana cost, but now it feels like we get some iteration of that effect once a every year or so.
Sidenote: I feel more and more that EDH is a great exploratory medium for Riptide Style cubes. There's a lot of overlap in finding synergistic pieces and interactions to maximize card density and there are a lot of gems to be gleamed. EDH is the main way I've been playing Magic the last couple of months and it's definitely helped re-ignite my passion for cube design after I was kinda burnt out for a bit. If you're ever in a rut, I think looking through the decks possible in the format is a great way to reboot yourself.
Anyways, I'm all for it if you're trying to make this kind of package work though, it's all about having a critical mass of enablers. The biggest obstacles I see to making Lifegain work as an archetype or subtheme in Cube are ways to make it mechanically distinct.
Based off my experiences in EDH, I'd say the best way to do that is to identify the core gameplan and to me it's all about building up life to use as a resource and then converting it into something that has a tangible effect. Gaining all that life doesn't mean a damn thing if it's just sitting there as a buffer before your opponents can overrun it with their own gameplan. It needs to be actively doing work for you and impacting the game, can't just be a passive stockpiled resource like Energy in much of KLD Constructed. I think you can definitely center this in B/W with some fringe support elsewhere in most cubes today without using up too many slots on narrow cards.
So we've got the core Aristocrat package to enable multiple lifegain and drain triggers off creatures dying:
You can also utilize the more narrow options in creatures that trigger off ETB with Soul Sister type effects. This was more the core of the idea way back when it was first being explored IIRC:
There are a ton of sac outlets to give you an alternative angle to generate death triggers and/or value aside from combat:
How do we go about generating multiple bodies? We had a handful of effects already with stuff like Secure the Wastes, but Ravnica 3 gave us the motherload to help supplement this section with Afterlife cards letting you double dip:
Ways to generate card advantage off the lifegain and death triggers include the aforementioned Yawg in addition to:
I also like that there are great overlaps with tokens and recursive aggro with Bloodsoaked Champion and Gravecrawler and you can easily overlap these different strategies in your gold section with signposts like:
Also consider that a natural crossover is into B/x Stax decks with your increased ability to convert life into additional resources, thus giving you a way to reload after grinding down resources:
If you want to get more durdle-y, you've also got combo loops that can be assembled with things like a sac outlet + Reveillark + Karmic Guide. Or a better one that's more efficient mana and curve wise is something like sac outlet + Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit or Metallic Mimic + Murderous Redcap or Kitchen Finks. There are just a ton of potential avenues.
Finally, you have some finisher type cards to round off your curve by giving you additional reach and a way to utilize the multiple bodies you've generated on board:
And then you just round off your deck with some choice bits of removal and interaction and bam! You've got a stew going.
I think there are just so many more non-parasitic options available to you nowadays if you really wanted to implement this archetype effectively. Not to mention that new Exquisite Blood on legs that was spoiled yesterday; just an insane win-con that can also grant mass lifelink off an activated ability. It's like a tidy package of Whip of Erebos and Exquisite Blood minus the durdle.
PS: This is all just a subliminal PSA to try and convince more people to include Brutal Hordechief in their lists. My beautiful boy has never failed me and has been one of my favorite cards since I first added him in after the Fate Reforged prerelease. Just do it and thank me later.
I've dabbled with Teysa, Orzhov Scion EDH builds a couple of times like 4-5 years back and remember how much work it was to build a deck with a critical mass of Aristocrat effects to make things work. You really had to dig deep here and there to get there. Flash forward to 2020 and and I have a buddy who runs it as his main CMDR and have noted the number of Blood Artist type effects having been greatly supplemented the last few years. Zulaport Cutthroat being printed was a cause for celebration way back in 2014 as a second copy at a reasonable mana cost, but now it feels like we get some iteration of that effect once a every year or so.
Sidenote: I feel more and more that EDH is a great exploratory medium for Riptide Style cubes. There's a lot of overlap in finding synergistic pieces and interactions to maximize card density and there are a lot of gems to be gleamed. EDH is the main way I've been playing Magic the last couple of months and it's definitely helped re-ignite my passion for cube design after I was kinda burnt out for a bit. If you're ever in a rut, I think looking through the decks possible in the format is a great way to reboot yourself.
Anyways, I'm all for it if you're trying to make this kind of package work though, it's all about having a critical mass of enablers. The biggest obstacles I see to making Lifegain work as an archetype or subtheme in Cube are ways to make it mechanically distinct.
Based off my experiences in EDH, I'd say the best way to do that is to identify the core gameplan and to me it's all about building up life to use as a resource and then converting it into something that has a tangible effect. Gaining all that life doesn't mean a damn thing if it's just sitting there as a buffer before your opponents can overrun it with their own gameplan. It needs to be actively doing work for you and impacting the game, can't just be a passive stockpiled resource like Energy in much of KLD Constructed. I think you can definitely center this in B/W with some fringe support elsewhere in most cubes today without using up too many slots on narrow cards.
So we've got the core Aristocrat package to enable multiple lifegain and drain triggers off creatures dying:
You can also utilize the more narrow options in creatures that trigger off ETB with Soul Sister type effects. This was more the core of the idea way back when it was first being explored IIRC:
There are a ton of sac outlets to give you an alternative angle to generate death triggers and/or value aside from combat:
How do we go about generating multiple bodies? We had a handful of effects already with stuff like Secure the Wastes, but Ravnica 3 gave us the motherload to help supplement this section with Afterlife cards letting you double dip:
Ways to generate card advantage off the lifegain and death triggers include the aforementioned Yawg in addition to:
I also like that there are great overlaps with tokens and recursive aggro with Bloodsoaked Champion and Gravecrawler and you can easily overlap these different strategies in your gold section with signposts like:
Also consider that a natural crossover is into B/x Stax decks with your increased ability to convert life into additional resources, thus giving you a way to reload after grinding down resources:
If you want to get more durdle-y, you've also got combo loops that can be assembled with things like a sac outlet + Reveillark + Karmic Guide. Or a better one that's more efficient mana and curve wise is something like sac outlet + Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit or Metallic Mimic + Murderous Redcap or Kitchen Finks. There are just a ton of potential avenues.
Finally, you have some finisher type cards to round off your curve by giving you additional reach and a way to utilize the multiple bodies you've generated on board:
And then you just round off your deck with some choice bits of removal and interaction and bam! You've got a stew going.
I think there are just so many more non-parasitic options available to you nowadays if you really wanted to implement this archetype effectively. Not to mention that new Exquisite Blood on legs that was spoiled yesterday; just an insane win-con that can also grant mass lifelink off an activated ability. It's like a tidy package of Whip of Erebos and Exquisite Blood minus the durdle.
PS: This is all just a subliminal PSA to try and convince more people to include Brutal Hordechief in their lists. My beautiful boy has never failed me and has been one of my favorite cards since I first added him in after the Fate Reforged prerelease. Just do it and thank me later.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I'm going to necro this thread because today I found out about a fun lifegain card:
We've solved it, white had card draw all along! It's good in EDH now
Very excited about Vito.
What power level does your cube need to be at for archangel of thune to be a healthy include?
What power level does your cube need to be at for archangel of thune to be a healthy include?
If you can run Baneslayer safely, you can run Archangel of Thune. They're roughly comparable.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Woah there, that's a spoiler! Would you be so kind to put this card and the description of what it does in spoiler tags with a warning that you're talking about a card from an upcoming set? There are people who don't look at the spoilers out there still. Thanks
But yeah, keep a close eye on M21. It does have a life gain theme from the looks of it, and with the new FIRE design approach, it's likely that there are going to be a few more playable role players for this archetype.
Good to know, I’ll continue to steer clear
Lifegain is ver much a thing these days. It was surprisingly easy to integrate the archetype at a medium power level, even now with 500 cards. I've built it as an aggro deck that has sometimes enough synergies and resources to last longer and still win in the mid-late game. I run cheap/aggressive creatures and spell that generate life gain effects:
And combine them with equally cheap/aggressive payoffs:
Works very well. It's fun for experienced players and one of the archetypes newer players get quickly a grip on.
And combine them with equally cheap/aggressive payoffs:
Works very well. It's fun for experienced players and one of the archetypes newer players get quickly a grip on.
Sorry Onder Fixed it, you just have to forget. *Puts on sunglasses*
My biggest problem with the lifegain theme are the payoffs. Apart from the black life payment cards, those are really narrow for the lifegain deck, and it doesn't work if you include only a few of them, as they are fragile. Their power level makes then even narrower since they are pretty weak if your deck does not have a lot of lifegain.
Then, you have Crested Sunmare and Archangel of Thune, which are game-warping. There isn't much in between.
Fixed it, you just have to forget. *Puts on sunglasses*My biggest problem with the lifegain theme are the payoffs. Apart from the black life payment cards, those are really narrow for the lifegain deck, and it doesn't work if you include only a few of them, as they are fragile. Their power level makes then even narrower since they are pretty weak if your deck does not have a lot of lifegain.
Then, you have Crested Sunmare and Archangel of Thune, which are game-warping. There isn't much in between.
There are a few (besides those two busted ones) that are enabler and payoff in one:
Many of them are also good aggro bodies with one trigger like Bloodthirsty Aerialist or Ajani's Pridemate. Special shoutout goes to Malakir Familiar, which is a solid 3-drop even without any lifegain triggers, but still get's a relevant boost in the aggro decks that can trigger it multiple times.
Many of them are also good aggro bodies with one trigger like Bloodthirsty Aerialist or Ajani's Pridemate. Special shoutout goes to Malakir Familiar, which is a solid 3-drop even without any lifegain triggers, but still get's a relevant boost in the aggro decks that can trigger it multiple times.
Bump
https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/the-black-cube.2058/page-3#post-99546
Life gain ramblings in Bgw. New cards aren't in ]ci[ yet and I don't intend to post image urls, but there's something for ya.
Yeah, for new cards I right-click copy paste from Gatherer, but it is more annoying.