Despite the idea of taking Glorious Anthem is tempting, I dismissed it for being 5 instead of 4. Could be quite a difference according to my ecperience of almost always paying 2 life at least for AoA.
Card/Deck Low Power Card Spotlight
- Thread starter Grillo_Parlante
- Start date
If this cost
, would it be playable? I really like it in conjunction with any ofand other variations on those themes. Also, psuedo-vigilance. But, obviously, the floor is literal uselessness, and if it conflicted with playing a two-drop it would be
I kind of like this card more than I think I should. Do I need to be running a bunch of fight effects so that people can make a deck around it, or is a giant flying Flametounge Kavu in green just good?
Should I even be playing it?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I have ran it in the past. It's pretty slow, but cool when it works. Just feels a bit lame if they don't have a good target out, because a 4/5 flyer for seven mana isn't exactly a good deal. On the other hand, a 6/7 flyer for seven feels like something green shouldn't be able to do, so in the end I removed it. Sandwurm Convergence eventually ended up in its spot.
I fear this guy is too powerful for my environment. Can someone take my fear away or am I just right? What are your experiences with Meloku?
Meloku in my experience is not low power.
It's usually:
T1: Play Meloku, with mana enough to protect them as well.
T2: Pass the turn, still holding up protection.
End of opponent's T2: pick up all your lands, make that many flying 1/1s
T3: Kill with the army of flying 1/1s.
I fear this guy is too powerful for my environment. Can someone take my fear away or am I just right? What are your experiences with Meloku?
There will always be a ‘strongest’ card. If you pull this one out, then you will come back in two weeks and ask the same question about a new strongest card.
If you cut cards for being too strong then you are following the Power-Max logics where they are also focusing on power levels of a card. Instead think if this card is doing something cool for your cube, enables new strategies or can lead to amazing games.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I think this is flawed reasoning. Yes, there will always be a strongest card, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't cut cards for power level reasonings. If you take this line of thought of you to the extreme, you're basically advocating a power max environment. After all, if there's always going to be a strongest card, what's the point of not running the actual strongest card in that spot?
I think it's more productive to look at the cards you want to succeed in your cube. If you know what those cards are, you can gauge the power band you need for those cards to make an impact, and then you can judge whether a card like Meloku is appropriate for the entailed power level.
Comparing a card to win conditions in its color can be useful as well. I run Drake Haven in my cube as a grindy win con for blue based discard decks, and Rise from the Tides as a payoff for blue spells matter decks. Meloku blows those card right out of the water, because it's much more efficient and doesn't need support. I therefore think Meloku wouldn't be right for my cube (and I did in fact cut it some years ago) because it is, in fact, too powerful when compared to other win cons in my blue section.
Edit: Looking at Ravnic's cube, I think his question is justified. Example blue win conditions that would have to compete with Meloku are Laboratory Maniac, Talrand, Sky Summoner, and Ephemeron, as well as the Drake Haven and Rise from the Tides I run myself. I think Meloku is more powerful than any of those, but, you also run the Upheaval + Psyhcatog combo, so there's that. On the whole though, the only stand alone win con among those (Ephemeron) is waaaaaay slower at finishing a game than Meloku is, and Meloku feels out of tune with your other win cons, as most of them are synergistic in nature and can inform the way you draft. Meloku does nothing like that. Much like the sheer power of activating Pack Rat's ability over and over again overshadows whatever usefulness it could have had as a discard outlet, Meloku's raw power overshadows whatever usefulness that card could have as a landfall enabling card.
Yeah I agree, just because you always have a strongest card doesn't mean they're not also relative to the other cards, you want to have some control over your power band!
My friend, that analysis is totally on point! I came to a similar conclusion of not adding Meloku, but you also made it really clear what the logic and thought process behind such a decision is, which helped me and could further help other cube managers reading that. Awesome!
And to the upheaval thing: I am very aware that this card is potentially nuts, it just never has been. I mean, people sometimes win after it, but it happens so infrequently and seems to be so difficult in this meta, that I leave it in for the moment. Tog is one of the best cards to break it probably, but the one time I actually did this with 9 mana, my opponent answered with Innocent Blood and proceeded to beat me
Please read my reply again. I argued to not use that kind of logic. It seems like you completely misunderstood the written words when you state that it will lead to a power max cube and ask what is the point of not running the actual strongest card.
I gave the answer: “Instead think if this card is doing something cool for your cube, enables new strategies or can lead to amazing games.
Simply cutting a card because it is the strongest in the cube is Power-Max-thinking. We have evolved past that point.
My final verdict, if I get a vote, is also to cut Meloku because it doesn’t check on any of the criteria. It neither does something cool for your cube (because it hurts your other win conditions), it neither enables new strategies (There is nothing to build around) and it doesn’t lead to amazing games (because the games simply ends almost abruptly after resolution.) But don’t cut it merely and only because it is the strongest card. We are better than that.
Oh, now I get your point as well. I also leads me to not adding Meloku, butI do agree with you. Running certain cards with a high power level is not only defendable, but also exiting for everyone drafting, when those cards do something awesome and/or important. That's why I run Living Death but not Grave Titan.
I'm allready pretty delusione about this one, but has anyone have any experience/anedoctes/advices about this guy ?Melek, Izzet Paragon
Melek is awesome!!!!
..at 4 mana. Or maybe 5?
It is certainly swingy but is also has the same ‘problem’ that is talked about here:
https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/fight-club.560/page-151#post-82673
It is tough to hit instants or sorceries. Unless you shape your cube around it.
..at 4 mana. Or maybe 5?
It is certainly swingy but is also has the same ‘problem’ that is talked about here:
https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/fight-club.560/page-151#post-82673
It is tough to hit instants or sorceries. Unless you shape your cube around it.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Ravnic didn't mention the concept of 'strongest card', so (re)reading your first line, my interpretation is that you are arguing you shouldn't cut a card because it's the strongest card, but because it's not doing something cool for your cube, doesn't enable new strategies and doesn't lead to amazing games. Labeling the act of cutting a card on the basis of its power level as Power-Max-thinking isn't useful, I feel, because that discredits it as something we shouldn't do. You enforce this point of view with the "we have evolved beyond that point" remark. I argue that we shouldn't feel as if we're above judging a card for it's power level. Sometimes it's the right thing to do.
At the same time, taking your comment very literally, you could say we agree. I don't believe you should cut a card just because it's the strongest one. There will always be a strongest card, and that isn't a bad thing, as long as that card is within the upper limits of the power band dicated by the cards and themes you want to push in your cube. The cards you should cut for power level reasons are those cards that are stronger than the upper limit of your cube's intended power band. If you can't or don't want to cut those strongest cards, you should instead look at the lower limit of your power band, and see what cards are not pulling their weight, given that you are running options that vastly outclass them. Or accept that your cube has a very wide margin as far as power level is concerned.
Talking about strong cards ...
Is this one of these strong cards, that just adjust to the format? I was looking for a card that is not just for graveyard and creature decks, but also for more controlling stuff like UB/g, and Deed just seems so much better than Gaze of Granite. I just wonder if it is too good at lower power level. To compare, these are the other wrath's I run:
Is this one of these strong cards, that just adjust to the format? I was looking for a
card that is not just for graveyard and creature decks, but also for more controlling stuff like UB/g, and Deed just seems so much better than Gaze of Granite. I just wonder if it is too good at lower power level. To compare, these are the other wrath's I run:
Deed is super high power level. You can always adjust the numbers so you get out ahead with very little effort.
A great wrath in Golgari is
It is so flexible as a hybrid and is decent enough even without the finality part.
It also lines up with you other wraths (similar to a BSZ for X=4)
A great wrath in Golgari is
It is so flexible as a hybrid and is decent enough even without the finality part.
It also lines up with you other wraths (similar to a BSZ for X=4)
Do you think it is better than Gaze of Granite? in a deck, which might not be able to profit from the two +1/+1 counters? because then it is just a multicolored Breath of Darigaaz, I guess which is fine though. But Gaze is scaleable like Deed and can be cast for 5 to kill a bunch of weenies ... *thinker pose*
I like my wraths toned down a bit and asking for some effort to maximize their value. Deed is very strong especially since it says nonland permanents.
Deed is way strong. Find//Finality is great. The Find half is super good. You have a lot of black wreaths already.
Find // Finality is definitely better than Gaze imo, but maybe slightly less of a ""Control"" card. It still plays well in grindy/long-game play styles, so I think it's a good fit.
There are other options too, like that new Murder + Rampant growth, which is a good fit for a control-style deck, getting you ahead on mana while controlling the board.
There are other options too, like that new Murder + Rampant growth, which is a good fit for a control-style deck, getting you ahead on mana while controlling the board.