Card/Deck Low Power Card Spotlight

[spicewitch]

My current fun realization is that Essence Reliq + Bowls Porridge is, more or less, a new rendition of "bomberman", which is an ancient wee combo involving auriok salvagers + pyrite spellbomb.

inspired by: recently, a player combined Essence Reliq with Metal Puzzleknot, and he thought that was a hoot

A fun thing about this version of bomberman is that, if you're benefiting from the tapdown ability, you only need to pickup your porridge every other turn. On the other-other turns, you can safeguard your own attackers or rebuy other fun stuff. (cool ppl: thought shucker. sadists: Cometa mandibular.)

 

[ravnic]

It's me again with a new episode of "is this card that looks really sick maybe actually fine at lower power level?"

I always thought this sweet card was too good for my cube, but isn't it just worse than drake haven? Which I run, and it is a slight power outlier, but it's fine.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

In most self-discard decks it replaces one card per turn, which is still amazing to keep the fuel for your discard effects going! I do think you need some sort of perpetual card advantage effect to be able to grind a match out. Rielle is conveniently in Squee colors as well!

 

[TekLazar]

I think they would definitely be the strongest card in your cube, just because card advantage is real.
Here are some things they do that is wild just in your cube

and my personal favorite way to be incredibly annoying

Also slightly ignores the downsides of getting hit by

and if you are in some kind of drake haven shell too then that would be quite miserable for the opponent.

yes, they sound sick, but looking at what card advantage you have in the cube, I personally would avoid. They might be fine depending on how people value removal in your cube, but they are definitely the biggest bomb, and at worst looks like an izzet phyrexian arena with big meaty legs.

Also, they could be a 5/3 that closes out the game in a control or tempo shell. I would splash blue or red for them every single time, unless I am playing a creature heavy aggro (but I still might pick them so I don't have to deal with it).

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Just proxy it, seed it into the next draft, and try it out! None of the examples TekLazar mentions seem especially egregious, except maybe, maybe, Thirst for Knowledge. Calling Miscalculation a wild interaction is pretty wild. I mean, spending to effectively draw two, discard one is super good, but you have to play a 3 mv 3 toughness creature first and keep it alive to make that happen.

 

[ravnic]

Hmm, now I'm a bit scared. I mean I'm fine with my ten gold cards being a bit of power outliers. And my thought process was, that it could be healthier for my format to have that power in a gold slot than in mono blue with Drake Haven. But how do they compare, head o head? Drake Haven has that mana gate, but a Wind Drake is also a much stronger output than a Reach through Mists. And you aren't necessarily limited to once per turn.

Cycling like on Miscalculation gives you ~ a Cloudkin Seer with DH and a Thrill of Possibility with Rielle. A point for DH?

Spitting Image is clunky with DH because you wouldn't want to cast the seventh land, but you'd get a Clone and a Wind Drake instead of a cantripping Clone for one more mana. A point for Rielle?

This for Knowledge is interesting. Rielle would let you draw five, discard two without additional mana invested. But if you can invest some mana, you could get two Drakes in addition to your Thirst for Knowledge effect.

Key to the City is probably better with Rielle, because it can make her unblockable, but every other repeatable looter is probably better with DH?

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

I would just sleeve up two test decks, one discard deck including Rielle and some challenger deck and play test it. We can theory craft all we want, you won't know until the cards hit the table

 

[alvoi]

Cycling like on Miscalculation gives you ~ a Cloudkin Seer with DH and a Thrill of Possibility with Rielle. A point for DH?

Well, it's more of a Divination than a Thrill of Possibility though. I would still prefer the Seer, but it's closer

 

[Onderzeeboot]

And my thought process was, that it could be healthier for my format to have that power in a gold slot than in mono blue with Drake Haven.

Why not both?

 

[ravnic]

Well, it's more of a Divination than a Thrill of Possibility though. I would still prefer the Seer, but it's closer

Oh, you're right. A 2-mana divination even.

Why not both?

Because Izzet Madness is already Tier 1, potentially the best deck in the format.

I would just sleeve up two test decks, one discard deck including Rielle and some challenger deck and play test it. We can theory craft all we want, you won't know until the cards hit the table

That's true of course. But theorycrafting is also sometimes helpful and often fun

 

[TekLazar]

It's better than a 2 mana divination, it's an instant speed 2 mana divination.

the main scenario why I found it especially egregious is like,
"player 1 keeps 2 mana open and passes turn"
"player 2 does not want any of their spells to be countered so they pass turn"
"on their end step, player 1 cycles miscalculation which has already done its duty of being a time walk, and if Rielle is on the field gets TWO cards"

I know that scenario is a bit magical Christmasland, but I still feel it makes the card especially strong for your format. But perhaps even stronger than miscalculation is

a 1 mana instant speed divination on a land

edit: and while I am woe-ing the card a lot, it still does sound like a sick deck. I would love to play it, but I worry that it will make your izzet section tier-0

 

[gaytransmulldrifter]

I've played with this card quite a bit and I think it's good but not insane at low power levels, although I do play somewhat stronger creatures than you do. It rewards you for building around it and can be a huge payoff, but also since it has 3 toughness it will often just die before it really does anything. I'd give it a shot.

 

[ravnic]

a 1 mana instant speed divination on a land

That's pretty sick. But again, is it worse than a 2 mana 2/2 flash flying creature that draws on etb?

I would love to play it, but I worry that it will make your izzet section tier-0

If I were to add it, I would swap out Drake Haven simultaneously. Both would probably really make Izzet Madness tier-0.

 

[TekLazar]

That's pretty sick. But again, is it worse than a 2 mana 2/2 flash flying creature that draws on etb?


If I were to add it, I would swap out Drake Haven simultaneously. Both would probably really make Izzet Madness tier-0.

as always, it depends. I personally think that rielle is probably a smidge less strong than drake haven just because they scale based on your environment and I wonder if that is mostly just due to the fact that you don't have a ton of enchantment removal compared to creature removal. But much like drake haven they can be a win-condition while also being a control tool, so I think it is a fine swap. But that's just my guess, I don't know for sure.

edit: I guess it also depends on galazeth prismari. Are they putting in work or just getting passed?

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

That's pretty sick. But again, is it worse than a 2 mana 2/2 flash flying creature that draws on etb?

Depends on the average quality of your cards. In a high power format, drawing cards are probably worth more.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

It's better than a 2 mana divination, it's an instant speed 2 mana divination.

I can not stress this enough, you need to cast a weak 3 drop and keep it alive before you can do this. Yes, the effect is strong, but it’s not like she is turning every cycling card into a cheap, instant just by being in your deck.

Edit: But, it might be a nice framing device to compare the cards! What sounds better to you, a 2 mana Divination, or a cantripping Wind Drake?

 

[ravnic]

edit: I guess it also depends on galazeth prismari. Are they putting in work or just getting passed?

It almost never gets played and is kind of akward as it isn't bad but doesn't really pop off in any synergistic izzet deck either. I mostly added it because I liked the full art version lol.

I am convinced now that she is worth a try. I might also proxy up a version and do some test games. But I'm less worried now somehow. So, unless they print something really awesome soon, she'll become my new izzet card in my winter update.

 

[safra]

My current fun realization is that Essence Reliq + Bowls Porridge is, more or less, a new rendition of "bomberman", which is an ancient wee combo involving auriok salvagers + pyrite spellbomb.

inspired by: recently, a player combined Essence Reliq with Metal Puzzleknot, and he thought that was a hoot

A fun thing about this version of bomberman is that, if you're benefiting from the tapdown ability, you only need to pickup your porridge every other turn. On the other-other turns, you can safeguard your own attackers or rebuy other fun stuff. (cool ppl: thought shucker. sadists: Cometa mandibular.)

no it isn't. bomberman is auriok salvagers and LED (and any third card) to make infinite mana and kill on the same turn. This does not make infinite mana and while it is a way to turn infinite mana into a kill, it's not quite fair, IMO, to call this "bomberman".

 

[ravnic]

has anyone ever tried this?
blinking stuff, being a useful noncreature spell and creating artifacts makes this a perfect fit for a card for my cube, in theory at least.

 

[Nanonox]

I had it for a while in my MP cube and it was fine. Later in the game it's either a ton of value or a finisher which is a good place to be IMO, games need to end! Midgame, you can usually block, blink and get your creatures back for the next turn, making it a value Fog.
Your environment is probably the right place for it as the ETBs won't be backbreaking and you have the time to get enough mana to make it worth it and crack the clues.

 

[gaytransmulldrifter]

Drafted with these guys for the first time tonight and I think they're my favorite set of landcyclers. I was on the Shoreline Ranger cycle for a long time but I think these are more splashy and appealing without being busted. I think the green, red, and black ones are particularly fun and feel exciting to cast. The blue one is kinda boring but what are you gonna do. Play Tidal Terror I guess. But that one isn't a dinosaur and you'll notice the others are dinosaurs.

Anyway everybody who played these tonight seemed to like them, maybe you will too. Really clean set of cards that all do distinct and mostly fun things.

 

[Brad]

DSK had a set of similarly powered options. I really like these kinds of cards for fixing opening hands in any format that has time to spend turn two sorting out their land situation.

The LTR ones only costing 1 mana is a huge deal because it can make one land hands keepable and they're fairly similar to a tapped land. Sadly, the cycle is more varied in power level.

The cycles can mix and match or play together quite nicely. In a low powered enough environment, those two cycles combined could be all of your top end threats.

Of course, I'd look into some kinda of dual-typed lands to make all of these even more interesting to play and draft.

 

[Erik Twice]

It's me again with a new episode of "is this card that looks really sick maybe actually fine at lower power level?"

I always thought this sweet card was too good for my cube, but isn't it just worse than drake haven? Which I run, and it is a slight power outlier, but it's fine.

It should scale according to power level. Regardless, it's easy to overrate because we tend to focus on the payoff and ignore the cost of Rielle itself.

First, consider that her body is irrelevant. Even if you had a lot of spells to boost her power (unlikely), she isn't attacking too often. Three toughness is also poor, she gets killed, efficiently, even by mid-power removal and may not even block. In other words, the turn it comes into play, her body is irrelevant.

You wait a turn and then spend another three mana to play Thirst for Knowledge. You have now spent six mana and taken two turns without affecting the board at all. And what's the result? Your card advantage has gone by one, as much as if you had played Thirst for Knowledge by discarding one artifact.

She only becomes good wihen paired with one mana discard or wheel effects, neither of which are plentiful. Add to it the fact that she's two colours and that she requires strict drafting and you may be surprised. Give her a try, she isn't as good as she seems to be.

 

[Rusje]

You wait a turn and then spend another three mana to play Thirst for Knowledge. You have now spent six mana and taken two turns without affecting the board at all. And what's the result? Your card advantage has gone by one, as much as if you had played Thirst for Knowledge by discarding one artifact

So, thirst or any variant is draw 3 discard 1 for a nice +2 if you discarded the one it asked for. With rielle, you have played two cards and drawn either 4 (if you discarded the card it asked for) which again leads to +2. Or you draw 5 by discarding 2 which again lead to +2. Thing is, looting is powerful. So maybe the number of cards has the same outcome (+2) but the power of the cards you have left have increased a lot.
You are right that one either has to have a low powered environment which allows the ability to shine and bury your opponent with card advantage or one needs an environment geared with wheels /discard effects. Otherwise, one cannot spent turn 3 durdling.

 

[ravnic]

Is anyone cubing this card?
What does it take to make it tick?
Are there sweet synergies beyond Genesis Chamber?