Card/Deck Low Power Card Spotlight

[ravnic]

Damage prevention has kinda fallen out of favor in modern day magic and it is barely a part of any cube I've seen. But it used to be a big part of white's color identity and there are some good cards as far as I know, so I was wondering, if it couldn't be interesting to add some damage prevention to my cube. Are there any cards, that are good and interesting? Cubeworthy? Could it make more interesting?

Here are some that seem strong to me:




Give me all your thoughts!

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Samite Pilgrim was pretty good in Invasion block draft.

 

[Miasmir]

I think I might prefer stuff like...



...because I think they scan a bit better, and also pump power, which makes them more appealing to drafters.

On the other hand, Orim, Samite Healer is a badass, and being able to 'counter' bolts and specter hits is pretty cool. I haven't played with the card in a while, but I remember giving up on it because of wraths and because Mother of Runes is very strong.

I think the raw damage prevention effect runs the risk of making combat more defensive, but that's speculation. Just test it!

 

[genericco]

I tried Field Surgeon out in peasant, but it only lasted one draft before being cut for being too strong and too much of a pain to deal with.

It effectively had pro-green and pro-red, since damage based removal was all those colors had.

 

[ravnic]

Yeah I can imagine that card being really annoying. I'm going to give Orim a test run, it could just hit the sweet spot, being great but fair and more controlable. I will post my feedback in this thread here when I got to see her performing!

 

[vennythekid]

It's not damage prevention, but it can play out similarly, plus, then you get to cube with a good boy:

 

[ravnic]

I think he's a bit too strong, because no one with a heart could target him with a kill spell!

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I think he's a bit too strong, because no one with a heart could target him with a kill spell!

Meh, I'm a cat person, screw Resolute Watchdog!

 

[Chris Taylor]

Meh, I'm a cat person, screw Resolute Watchdog!

Well a resolute watchcat wouldn't really attack or block when you told it to so...

 

[ravnic]

Is this card beaeable in lower power? It just seems soo strong to ramp to 5 on turn 3 on it's own.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Is this card beaeable in lower power? It just seems soo strong to ramp to 5 on turn 3 on it's own.

Can your decks reliably kill or disrupt it before it can start making tons of mana? If so, then yes.

Think about all of these 1 and 2 drop removal spells (that I can remember right now) that can deal with this.

And this isn't even a remotely complete list!

Joraga Treespeaker is a removal check, but it is far from unbeatable even if it's not immediately dealt with.

 

[ravnic]

Thanks, you made pretty clear that it is a No for my cube, since I don't want removal check 1- or 2-drops

 

[RavebornMuse]

I like Earthshaker Khenra, but how do we feel about bigger Falter effects? Is something like this satisfying to play to wrap up a stalled game, or does it feel too "cheap" to be on the other side of?

 

[genericco]

It's not a play pattern i would be looking to promote. I'm kind of surprised wizards keeps printing cards like Cosmo Wave and tempest caller. They're big groaners even in retail limited

 

[TrainmasterGT]

I like Earthshaker Khenra, but how do we feel about bigger Falter effects? Is something like this satisfying to play to wrap up a stalled game, or does it feel too "cheap" to be on the other side of?

Falter effects have always felt super cheap unless they only stop one creature IMO.

 

[Chris Taylor]

It's not a play pattern i would be looking to promote. I'm kind of surprised wizards keeps printing cards like Cosmo Wave and tempest caller. They're big groaners even in retail limited

Look, somethings gotta end games of limited. Cosmo wave is waaaaay more fair than overrun ever was

 

[ravnic]

I'd like a modal falter effect or one with cycling. Those come to my mind:

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Destructive Tampering is neat, it gets occasionally picked up in my experience, but usually ended up in the sideboard while I ran it in my cube. I like the idea of (but haven't tested):



I imagine it would run a bit like D'Avenant Trapper, which has been excellent in my cube.

 

[ravnic]

When we're talking effects, that turn of blocking for one creature, these two have been awesome in my cube:



Striker has been removed to create room for the madness theme, but the Goblin is still scaring opponents.

 

[genericco]

Look, somethings gotta end games of limited. Cosmo wave is waaaaay more fair than overrun ever was

This is all true, but I'd still rather die to an inferno jet or whatever. With falters, it's like I tried to build a deck with play against attackers - by trying to block - and you have one card in your deck that invalidates that

 

[ravnic]

I just added this card to my cube and I'm kinda exited about it. Seems like a really nice payoff for the lifegain deck while also just being a good playable for almost everyone who taps swamps for mana.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

I just added this card to my cube and I'm kinda exited about it. Seems like a really nice payoff for the lifegain deck while also just being a good playable for almost everyone who taps swamps for mana.

This card will be either super fun to play with or miserable to play against. Repeatable Removal is very powerful- I'd be sure to keep an eye on this.

Should be fun though, you definitely have reason to be excited!

 

[ravnic]

Oh I totally share your worries, but lifegain payoffs that are playable in other decks are not that easy to find, so I had to test it. I also realized, that there are quite a few decks that aren't really screwed even when that card works perfectly.

Token decks might lose their Ant Queen but will keep their insects, saprolings and spirits.
Black creature decks like sacrifice or dredge have recursion and Sac Outlets to mess with removal any way
Spell heavy control decks don't mind losing their looter at some point when they can still just finish with a massive Rise from the Tides
Aggro decks should be happy to see the opponent to pay 4 mana and 4 life to kill one of their threats, so they can just Fireball their face for lethal


I see a card that tests deckbuilding and sideboarding skill maybe, but nothing too scary. Let's hope I'm right!

 

[Rowan_CB]

I see a card that tests deckbuilding and sideboarding skill maybe, but nothing too scary. Let's hope I'm right!

I think you're right! I've run Slaughter since day one and it's never been a problem. Definitely worth a high pick, but not game-warping. 2BB plus 4 life is not an insignificant cost; plus there are creatures it can't hit. In most cases, it ends up being about on par with Sever the Bloodline. In cubes with lots of creature recursion, I like having some fairly costed repeatable removal to allow the spell-side to keep pace.

 

[xyz]

Okay, it's me again with a "could this card be actually really good?"-cases



I mean, in a deck with lots of tokens and/or some recurable creatures, this could save many lives and make combat a hell for your opponent, right?

I like it a lot, but it's very environment specific.

Originally, I had it in my cube for a 1.5-2.5 year (?) stretch 5ish years ago when I wanted access to more sac outlets. This was before the influx of better sac outlets like Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, Hidden Stockpile, and Yahenni, Undying Partisan when we were still floundering around with Cartel Aristocrat.

As we got more outlets, it became a little less necessary and I decided it was also too hit or miss. Not enough decks were interested in it and sometimes it was a little too egregious with Hero of Bladehold.

About 1-2 years later, I brought it back, deciding it could be a good fit again. I was no longer running Hero of Bladehold and the remaining token making attackers (Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Goblin Rabblemaster, and Hanweir Garrison) made for much more reasonable combos. I also had a renewed desire for sac outlets (I forget why) and a new push in Naya for Voltron style decks which wanted more protection effects. If I remember correctly, I think the quality of cubeable/maindeckable enchantment destruction also got better in that time, which also kept it in check more.

Now, It's still in my cube and I've been happy to have it.

I feel like I'd just rather build around Angelic Renewal if I'm looking for that kind of effect. Fanatical Devotion is terrible when you're behind and Renewal can help you get free ETB triggers.

the way that Fanatical Devotion plays is you win every combat, they can't block, and your creatures die in order from smallest to biggest, except if your opponent has a wrath, in which case, they kill only half of your creatures.

It is not fun! Also it isn't that strong, so you have a shitty effect you can't even build a deck around!!!

I think it's just a different style of card. It's less of a build around and more of utility tool that ties things together for certain kinds of decks (mainly aristocrats and voltrons, but can be fine in just any token heavy deck). Agree it's not good from behind, but I don't think it's terrible either. You have not be completely behind (such as down to 1 creature), but if you have a few blockers and can keep some alive for more chumps at the very least.
I haven't found it super unfun to play against, I think? Or at least I can't remember any bad experiences? Maybe sample size is too low? It might also be the case that it's less of a problem in my cube because there are more ways of going over the top of it.