Card/Deck Low Power Card Spotlight

[Hillstyle]

Any thoughts on this guy? He looks like a fun reanimator target that dredge decks can also just hardcast. He also has surprisingly relevant creature types.

ehh, a vanilla 10/10 is definitely not the greatest payoff. Dredge decks aren't super lacking in payoffs with GGT, Hogaak?, and Tasigur in higher power environments, and Tombstalker, Nemesis of Mortals, Ishkanah, Grafwidow, etc in lower power enivros. With the consistency of cube removal, it's pretty bad.

 

[Brad]

I run him. I like him, but I also run a mostly-black cube that can support a lot of graveyard stuff and I have a soft spot for excessively fat green creatures.

 

[ravnic]

I chose Splinterfright over him for dredge, but I also don t support reanimator. I think Ghoultree is a fine beater though, especially when you have lots of recursion, cause he'll only get cheaper.

 

[ravnic]

Would this card be okay in a lower powerd cube like mine? It seems like it could go crazy sometime, but maybe the drawbacks are enough to make it fair. Being an enabler and a payoff for madness aggro is a big deal, and te deck could use a slightly pushed 3-drop.

 

[Velrun]

Would this card be okay in a lower powerd cube like mine? It seems like it could go crazy sometime, but maybe the drawbacks are enough to make it fair. Being an enabler and a payoff for madness aggro is a big deal, and te deck could use a slightly pushed 3-drop.

Pushed 3-drop that could go into your red Madness deck? How about the one I suggested here:

(Theros Beyond Death spoiler ahead)

https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/thb-theros-beyond-death-spoiler.2056/page-10#post-88717

 

[ravnic]

Well, Anje's Ravager has several upsides over the phoenix for this deck:
- it costs only one red mana, really nice for a two-colored aggro deck.
- it's cheaper to cast when discarded and doesn't need a full graveyard for coming back early.
- it's less of a value, goodstuff card but a synergistic roleplayer that rewards deckbuilding. (Phoenix is best when just cast from your hand and brought back later if it dies)
- and most importantly, it is not only a card that likes being discarded, but also a discard outlet, of which you can barely have enough in that deck!

 

[Kirblinx]

Well, Anje's Ravager has several upsides over the phoenix for this deck:
- it costs only one red mana, really nice for a two-colored aggro deck.
- it's cheaper to cast when discarded and doesn't need a full graveyard for coming back early.
- it's less of a value, goodstuff card but a synergistic roleplayer that rewards deckbuilding. (Phoenix is best when just cast from your hand and brought back later if it dies)
- and most importantly, it is not only a card that likes being discarded, but also a discard outlet, of which you can barely have enough in that deck!

You already have in your cube:

How has it been working out for you? I feel like the Ravager is definitely stronger, as drawing a potential 3 cards a turn seems insane. I would at least give it a test, it looks really fun to play.

 

[ravnic]

Occultist is roch solid, I'm definitely not cutting it for the Ravager. It's a 3-drop playable in any remotely aggressive red deck, but also has a cheap madness cost, making it just the right mix of generally playable and archetype-supporting.

 

[Velrun]

Okay then I vote you include Anje. If you want your Gruul Madness section to really matter you gotta give it some consistency. And that requires cards with Madness and discard outlets among other things.

 

[ravnic]

Yeah, I just added a copy to my order. Thanks guys for helping me convincing myself.

 

[inscho]

Would this card be okay in a lower powerd cube like mine? It seems like it could go crazy sometime, but maybe the drawbacks are enough to make it fair. Being an enabler and a payoff for madness aggro is a big deal, and te deck could use a slightly pushed 3-drop.

Big fan of this card. Has a nice tension to it since it has to attack, and you have to discard your hand. It's a good signal of the archetype, and compels you to build around it somewhat.

I hate madness cards that don't have a reasonable cmc hardcast, but ravager is just fine at 3.

 

[ravnic]

How realistic is it to expect drafters to build around this card?



Without a specific support but in a cube with solid fixing in form of nonbasic lands, mana rocks and green ramp.
I think it was in the core set cube on mtgo, but sometimes weird stuff is in these cubes.

 

[psly4mne]

How realistic is it to expect drafters to build around this card?

It would have to be in a very particular environment. Slow decks, no above-curve creatures, basically no planeswalkers, but very good fixing. Stuff like Chromatic Lantern, Regal Behemoth, full signets. In any other scenario, just no.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I think the better 5 color card to make drafters force 5color is

 

[Mondschwein]

What do people think of temporarily disabling blockers? One way to do this is by tapping opposing creatures (especially in blue and white), but another way are those red effects that do just that:



Aspirant and Pia also play well in Aristocrats, Minotaur obv is for spells matter (I believe Japahn was the user who wanted less evasion for his blue section? swapping out Mistfire Adept for the Minotaur could actually help) and if you're supporting Heroic (which is something I always strongly considered but never tried) Nightbird's Clutches and Blinding Flare could also be used there. This kind of effect also helps those red vampires that need connecting to your opponent.

But even if that's true, tapping does solve those problems too, and maybe even more in also hindering creatures from attacking or using abilities. The question is if some of the tapping effects like Goldmeadow Harrier or Icy Manipulator aren't too strong, and which of those "target creature(s) can't block this turn" effects aren't too weak. Like I said, Smelt-Ward Minotaur is a good example for the Spellslinger deck, as Niblis of Frost and Mistfire Adept are definitely stronger alternatives.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I love the effect, great for pushing through damage. I personally run...



I also run Opportunistic Dragon, which kind of works as a temporary "can't block" in a lot of cases as well (provided you run enough humans in your cube).

Another one I have ran in the past and loved is Ahn-Crop Crasher. I liked it better than Heelcutter, but cut it because I had no other exert cards in my cube.

 

[Mondschwein]

Oh yeah, as I do most of the time, I just post the ones I personally consider, and not what could actually be interesting for other people.

Ahn-Crop Crasher doesn't look too bad! I don't like exerting a creature, but maybe that's because I actually never did that. Took a break from Khans to Dominaria, and somehow Exert doesn't look too good for aggressive strategies. A LOT of people told me about some exerting creatures being especially good for aggressive decks, though, so I might revisit that.

I always thought Opportunistic Dragon would punish one player and doesn't affect the other at all. I run a lot of humans, but sometimes this looks like it's just a 4/3 flyer for 4. Exiling a thopter or servo token is okay, exiling a golem looks, well, FTK.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I always thought Opportunistic Dragon would punish one player and doesn't affect the other at all. I run a lot of humans, but sometimes this looks like it's just a 4/3 flyer for 4. Exiling a thopter or servo token is okay, exiling a golem looks, well, FTK.

I found that almost everyone plays humans or artifacts (or both), so most of the time you'll have a target. It also doesn't exile, so that Golem's coming back when you deal with the dragon

 

[Nanonox]

I don't have much experience with the cards mentioned above (except that Earthshaker Khenra and Pia Nalaar are great). I was wondering about a multiplayer special



I know this isn't a multiplayer forum, but thought I try my luck anyways. The card seems great at breaking board stalls, what I worry about is that the first player who has to attack will just get killed by the second player, who will get killed by the third...
Have any of you tried it out in an EDH or other setting? Was it overbearing?

 

[ravnic]

Let's have a monunental talk. Many people, including myself, run this card with success:



I was sceptical first if they are good enough in two colored decks, but just last draft my girlfriend did crszy things witz Monunent, Soul Warden and Regal Bloodlord. I'm a fan now.

But what about other monuments? I looked back into the cycle and this one I saw the highest potential in:



My black decks are often grindy with lots of recursion going on. I wonder if this is enough to make both effects worthwhile? I also support black as a mono color, so maybe it is?
I was more hyped for my idea until I checked LSV's limited evaluation:

"The Monuments are largely bad, which is why I lumped them together. The cost reduction part isn’t worth a card, and the effects on all save Oketra’s Monument are minor enough that I’m not going to include them in my deck."

Is this true for cube? Or did anyone have different experiences with the nonwhite monuments?

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Let's have a monunental talk. Many people, including myself, run this card with success:



I was sceptical first if they are good enough in two colored decks, but just last draft my girlfriend did crszy things witz Monunent, Soul Warden and Regal Bloodlord. I'm a fan now.

But what about other monuments? I looked back into the cycle and this one I saw the highest potential in:



My black decks are often grindy with lots of recursion going on. I wonder if this is enough to make both effects worthwhile? I also support black as a mono color, so maybe it is?
I was more hyped for my idea until I checked LSV's limited evaluation:

"The Monuments are largely bad, which is why I lumped them together. The cost reduction part isn’t worth a card, and the effects on all save Oketra’s Monument are minor enough that I’m not going to include them in my deck."

Is this true for cube? Or did anyone have different experiences with the nonwhite monuments?

The only reason Oketra's Monument is good for cube is because it makes creatures whenever you cast a creature spell and helps you overwhelm the opponent with a wide board state. A 1/1 Creature is worth a lot more than draining the opponent for 1 since it can theoretically deal a lot more damage over the course of the game. Two Oketra's Monument triggers can deal 10 damage to the opponent in theory, Two Bontu's Monument triggers can only ever deal 2.

 

[japahn]

Dismissing Bontu's Monument as bad because Oketra's Monument is better is an anchoring fallacy.

Drain 1 life is less valuable than a 1/1 in general, yes, but not insignificant - Blood Artist has taught us as much.

The cost reduction is easy to overlook, but it has value. I think the types of decks that benefit from the cost reduction in black would appreciate the lifegain.

I'd guess Bontu's Monument is low power regardless, but better than it looks.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Try to imagine a scenario where you would actively want to play Bontu's Monument. Which deck do you think would play it. How would that deck look, and how likely is it that Bontu's Monument is the correct pick over another 23rd pick?

 

[ravnic]

I'd want to be relatively heavy in black, habe a grindy deck with quite a bit of recursion, and maybe even some synergies with the lifegain. That's probably just too many boxes for my cube to tick.

 

[ravnic]

Let's continue with "cards ravniccis interested in because they remind him in things he likes", today with willbender-ish things. Has anyone tried out these cards?



Like I said, I'm a huge fan of Willbender, that card makes for stories.
From these two, I probably like shunt more, because a situational effect like this is more useful in just one color I guess.